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3G iPhone to include N WIFI to protect AT&T 3G network?

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by 4phun, Feb 14, 2008.

  1. 4phun

    4phun Guest

    What is the real reason Starbucks is closing for 3 hours later this
    montWhy did they switch to AT&T?
    Apple is readying something ineresting later this month.
    coincidence?

    There is a neat TV show called CONNECTIONS! Here is an article that
    connects a series of recent news events which will provide more
    insight into the actions of Apple, AT&T, Starbucks, Broadcom and more.
    IMHO a really neat read.

    http://db.tidbits.com/article/9458

    Starbucks Deal Brewed with AT&T Has Hints of Apple
    by Glenn Fleishman

    I'm not an oenophile, but I do like wine. I've never mastered the
    vocabulary of oaky, brawny, full of tannins, and so forth. But I do
    know a whiff of fruit when I smell it. Yesterday's announcement that
    Starbucks would switch its in-store Wi-Fi provider from long-time
    partner T-Mobile to AT&T had a strong smell of Apple about it. (You
    can read my coverage of this at my site Wi-Fi Networking News, or the
    article I filed for The Seattle Times.)

    In fact, I think the putative 3G iPhone plays a part here as well, and
    that we'll see the 3G iPhone rolled out as part of a larger play that
    involves downloading movies in Starbucks over AT&T's new network; that
    puts the launch between March and June 2008. Let me back up a minute
    first.


    AT&T Brings Millions of Subscribers to Starbucks -- The deal yesterday
    brings Wi-Fi at 7,000 U.S. company-owned Starbucks stores at no
    additional cost to 7 million AT&T DSL and U-Verse fiber subscribers -
    all DSL customers with 1.5 Mbps downstream or faster connections - and
    5 million business customers who use a remote-access service from
    AT&T. It also offers free Wi-Fi for two hours a day for a period of 30
    days starting each time you make a purchase of any amount using a
    Starbucks Card, their stored-value swipe card.

    Pay-as-you-go service is $3.95 for two hours, down from $6.00 per hour
    or $10.00 per day with T-Mobile.

    Monthly unlimited service is also available, although that requires a
    little explanation. AT&T splits its hotspot network into Basic and
    Premier tiers. The Basic network currently includes McDonald's (8,500
    stores), Barnes & Noble, and several airports; Starbucks will be added
    to that tier. Qualifying DSL and all fiber customers get Basic service
    for free.

    The Premier tier adds roughly 1,000 locations in the U.S. like hotels,
    airports run by other providers, and convention centers, as well as
    53,000 international roaming locations. Premier cost $19.95 per month
    for everyone except the qualifying DSL and all fiber customers, who
    can upgrade to Premier by paying an extra $9.95 per month.

    Subscribers to aggregator hotspot services like Boingo Wireless that
    already have a roaming relationship with AT&T will get Starbucks
    access at no additional cost, too. Boingo charges $21.95 for unlimited
    U.S. access, which includes pretty much all domestic airports and tens
    of thousands of other U.S. locations, making it the best bargain.
    (Boingo hasn't updated their software client for Leopard, but a
    company spokesperson told me some months ago that nearly all Boingo
    partner locations allow a Web page login with Boingo credentials.)

    The rollout starts in the second quarter of 2008 in major cities, and
    will continue through the year. (This deal covers only U.S. company-
    owned Starbucks, not the kiosks found in airports or licensed
    purveyors in places like Barnes & Noble, and also doesn't affect T-
    Mobile's arrangements with Starbucks outside the U.S.)

    Starbucks has never expressed dissatisfaction publicly with T-Mobile,
    which purchased a bankrupt firm's assets and took over the Starbucks
    Wi-Fi buildout in early 2002. It's quite clear that the company made
    sure that existing T-Mobile HotSpot subscribers wouldn't be
    disconnected when AT&T takes over: anyone with a T-Mobile data
    subscription that includes Wi-Fi or who uses their Wi-Fi/cell plan to
    place calls using special handsets has unlimited, long-term access to
    all Starbucks locations.

    Rather, T-Mobile couldn't offer Starbucks anything particularly
    special, and couldn't further its relationship with Apple. When Apple
    announced that Starbucks would be a partner in a special branded
    service available on the iPhone and iPod touch and within iTunes to
    extend the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store, T-Mobile's name wasn't anywhere
    on that press release; nor was AT&T, Apple's multi-year exclusive
    iPhone reseller in the U.S.


    Overwhelming 3G -- AT&T operates a 3G (third generation) cellular
    network, and last week announced that the telecom firm would be
    expanding and upgrading that network this year. (See "More Mileposts
    Along Road to 3G iPhone," 2008-02-06.). The company also owns a huge
    amount of copper and fiber optic in its territory stretching - with a
    southwestern gap - from California to Florida. (Qwest owns the
    Northwest, mountain time zone, and Midwest; Verizon, the northeast
    down to Virginia.)

    The company is using Wi-Fi as a bridge between wired service, which
    increasingly includes fiber-optic connections to neighborhoods, and
    its wireless service. You can push a lot of data over copper and
    glass, and have essentially as much of that as you want to build.
    Wireless spectrum is finite, and there's never as much as you want.

    The current set of auctions for retiring analog television frequency
    shows how much interest there is: $20 billion and counting for an
    excellent swath, that includes nearly $5 billion for a single set of
    national licenses suitable for broadband wireless. AT&T just finalized
    a separate purchase of about half the amount of national spectrum
    currently up for bid from a firm that bought it in a previous auction.

    The long debate over whether 3G or Wi-Fi is "better" disregards the
    fact that Wi-Fi has a far higher carrying capacity. While most
    hotspots backhaul no more than 3 to 6 Mbps downstream, and most are
    closer to 768 Kbps to 1.5 Mbps downstream, an 802.11g Wi-Fi network
    can push 20 Mbps across a single base station, and the new 802.11n
    standard can top out at rates over 90 Mbps. (The raw data rates for G
    and N are 54 Mbps and 300 Mbps, respectively; the rates I'm citing are
    for access in close proximity to a base station but in typical
    circumstances.)

    AT&T's current flavor of 3G, HSPA, can only carry 3.6 Mbps downstream
    and about half that upstream; each phone or device in range is likely
    to see the upper 100s of Kbps downstream and half that upstream, with
    higher peak rates for sustained transfers. And the more people using
    3G connections, the less likely peak speeds are achieved.

    When the current iPhone models were released, reports state that usage
    of EDGE - a moderate speed "2.5G" network standard that straddles
    second- and third-generation standards - tripled in cities like San
    Francisco. You can imagine that the release of a 3G iPhone might bring
    AT&T's still-expanding 3G network to its knees.

    Which is where Starbucks comes in. AT&T and Apple clearly cut a deal
    where Starbucks benefits from becoming a digital media hub: It's going
    to be the place where people congregate to use Wi-Fi as part of the
    monthly service fee that they already pay AT&T - this wasn't announced
    yesterday, but it's absolutely coming - and where they download media
    from Apple.


    It's Not about EDGE, It's about the Edge -- Here's where it all comes
    together. Starbucks already has media servers in its stores. These
    servers host the songs that Starbucks plays. But they aren't simply
    jukeboxes. They also have magic that allows a customer in a Starbucks
    cafe to purchase a song they just heard or that was recently played
    and have that song downloaded locally - not downloaded over the
    Internet from Apple's iTunes. That means that Apple is wrapping DRM
    (digital rights management) on songs that require that protection in
    each store. Neither Starbucks nor Apple had previously discussed this,
    but I interviewed Starbucks's chief technical officer Chris Bruzzo
    yesterday for The Seattle Times.

    Even though there was no mention of Apple yesterday in this deal,
    Bruzzo and I spoke about the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store arrangement in
    Starbucks. I asked him if there were any plans to stick media servers
    in the stores, and he said, "Right now in our stores that have the
    iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store, you go and buy the song that's playing
    directly overhead, and see how fast it transfers."

    He wasn't being coy; the company isn't talking explicitly about this.
    But he said, compare the transfer speed between songs that were
    recently played and those available through Apple's broader iTunes
    catalog, and you can see the difference.

    He noted of the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store, "That's a great example of a
    location-based service that's highly contextual. And the ability to
    use the superior speeds of 802.11g to deliver a file that's relevant
    to a particular environment." This isn't very subtle. They have
    servers in the stores.

    If you were to put, say, a server with a couple of terabytes (TB) of
    storage, which is now maybe a $2,000 to $3,000 expense, and load that
    with the 100,000 most popular songs and the 500 most frequently rented
    films and the few hundred most recent and popular TV shows episodes,
    suddenly people can download those files at the local network's speed,
    not at the speed of the Internet connection.

    If I'm downloading a 1.3 GB movie file on my home network at 3 Mbps
    downstream, it's going to take about an hour. Not bad. If I instead
    purchase and download it over an otherwise non-busy 802.11g network,
    it's suddenly more like nine minutes. If that network were upgraded by
    AT&T, say, to use 802.11n, and I'm downloading it to my fancy MacBook,
    MacBook Air, or MacBook Pro with 802.11n (Core 2 Duo versions), we're
    now talking about...wait for it...perhaps two minutes.

    Did I mention that a 3G iPhone is likely to include a new low-power
    802.11n chip as well? No? That's almost certainly part of the delay in
    producing it, as those chips are just hitting the market now.

    The edge network, the network that feeds data locally at local network
    speeds, becomes extremely important in this scenario.


    Your New Living Room -- Starbucks has always cultivated an artificial
    living room: a place probably more comfortable and convivial than most
    of our actual living rooms (if we had them); it's also an extension
    for Gen-X of the ranch house they might have grown up in that they
    couldn't afford to rent.

    It's not a leap at all that Starbucks, already a big music producer
    and seller, and one interested in revitalizing its business after a
    few years of drifting from its core coffee mission, would embrace the
    idea of being the place people who don't even like their coffee come
    to fill up on media, use the network, and hang out.

    All Starbucks' stores in the U.S. are closing later this month for
    three hours to retrain the staff on making coffee better. The baking
    ovens for breakfast "sandwiches" have started to be ripped out. And
    this deal is now in place. It's no coincidence.

    Starbucks is poised to be the launch partner for the 3G iPhone, and
    they're getting their living rooms cleaned up for the coming hordes.
     



    › See More: 3G iPhone to include N WIFI to protect AT&T 3G network?
  2. John Navas

    John Navas Guest

    On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:51:03 -0800 (PST), 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com>
    wrote in
    <eb878ca6-09a3-431a-bd69-df89889b2dc5@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com>:

    >AT&T's current flavor of 3G, HSPA, can only carry 3.6 Mbps downstream
    >and about half that upstream;


    Easily upgraded to 14.4 Mbps and beyond.

    >each phone or device in range is likely
    >to see the upper 100s of Kbps downstream and half that upstream, with
    >higher peak rates for sustained transfers.


    I'm seeing 1.2 Mbps sustained downlink.

    >And the more people using
    >3G connections, the less likely peak speeds are achieved.


    Depends on the capacity of the cell.

    >When the current iPhone models were released, reports state that usage
    >of EDGE - a moderate speed "2.5G" network standard that straddles
    >second- and third-generation standards - tripled in cities like San
    >Francisco.


    What reports? Internet rumors or something more substantial?
    Citation please.

    >You can imagine that the release of a 3G iPhone might bring
    >AT&T's still-expanding 3G network to its knees.


    I seriously doubt it.

    --
    Best regards,
    John Navas <http:/navasgroup.com>

    "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
    boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." --Gene Spafford
     
  3. Larry

    Larry Guest

    4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:eb878ca6-09a3-431a-bd69-
    df89889b2dc5@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com:

    > Pay-as-you-go service is $3.95 for two hours, down from $6.00 per hour
    > or $10.00 per day with T-Mobile.
    >
    >


    See? I told ya. SELLphones....nickel and dime you to death....

    Right across the parking lot from Starbucky's is Atlanta Bread and Panera
    Bread cafes, here. Free internet for ALL at both places. It didn't SELL
    before....it won't SELL, now.

    Stop by the front desk of Embassy Suites and ask the pretty girl for a wifi
    passcard. Instead of logging on for a free day, it'll work all month.

    Free wifi is just good business. Pick any lunch hour at Panera Bread and
    see how many people are doing business on their laptops with Panera's
    lunch. Walk across to Starbucky's and there's none. Coincidence?

    Greedy bastards. Wifi costs near nothing. The cash registers use so
    little bandwidth and it's already installed in the stores, lots of stores.

    Oh, a little plug for a great little Italian fast food at the corner of
    Montague Ave and Dorchester Rd in N Charleston, SC, Pizza Roma. Free wifi
    to all from the Linksys I installed over the cash register connected
    through Knology Cable. The Jersey boys who own it have laptops...(c; Best
    Strombolis I ever tasted! They were raised in Dad's Italian restaurant
    back in NJ. Jersey people yell at each other a lot, but you get used to it
    when you find out the threats are not serious...(c;

    Hmm....time for breakfast....
     
  4. On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:14:45 +0000, Larry wrote:

    > 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:eb878ca6-09a3-431a-bd69-
    > df89889b2dc5@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
    >
    >> Pay-as-you-go service is $3.95 for two hours, down from $6.00 per hour
    >> or $10.00 per day with T-Mobile.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > See? I told ya. SELLphones....nickel and dime you to death....
    >
    > Right across the parking lot from Starbucky's is Atlanta Bread and Panera
    > Bread cafes, here. Free internet for ALL at both places. It didn't SELL
    > before....it won't SELL, now.
    >
    > Stop by the front desk of Embassy Suites and ask the pretty girl for a wifi
    > passcard. Instead of logging on for a free day, it'll work all month.


    I agree. I use Panera frequently when traveling. I even have Panera POIs
    in my Garmin GPS so I can easily locate the nearest one.

    Most mid-priced hotels can also be accessed from their parking lots. Many
    of them have open networks.

    I dropped my $50 VZW data plan for that reason. It's easier for me to
    check and work with email with my notebook PC than with that small phone
    screen.
     
  5. Ron

    Ron Guest

    On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:14:45 +0000, Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

    >4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:eb878ca6-09a3-431a-bd69-
    >df89889b2dc5@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
    >
    >> Pay-as-you-go service is $3.95 for two hours, down from $6.00 per hour
    >> or $10.00 per day with T-Mobile.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >See? I told ya. SELLphones....nickel and dime you to death....
    >
    >Right across the parking lot from Starbucky's is Atlanta Bread and Panera
    >Bread cafes, here. Free internet for ALL at both places. It didn't SELL
    >before....it won't SELL, now.
    >
    >Stop by the front desk of Embassy Suites and ask the pretty girl for a wifi
    >passcard. Instead of logging on for a free day, it'll work all month.



    Or ask for a password at a Holiday Inn.

    I was at a Double Tree, $10/day in your room free in the Lobby.


    >
    >Free wifi is just good business. Pick any lunch hour at Panera Bread and
    >see how many people are doing business on their laptops with Panera's
    >lunch. Walk across to Starbucky's and there's none. Coincidence?


    McDonalds, Burger King and Jack-in-the-Box are adding free, open WiFi
    as fast as they can.

    >
    >Greedy bastards. Wifi costs near nothing. The cash registers use so
    >little bandwidth and it's already installed in the stores, lots of stores.
    >
    >Oh, a little plug for a great little Italian fast food at the corner of
    >Montague Ave and Dorchester Rd in N Charleston, SC, Pizza Roma. Free wifi
    >to all from the Linksys I installed over the cash register connected
    >through Knology Cable. The Jersey boys who own it have laptops...(c; Best
    >Strombolis I ever tasted! They were raised in Dad's Italian restaurant
    >back in NJ. Jersey people yell at each other a lot, but you get used to it
    >when you find out the threats are not serious...(c;
    >
    >Hmm....time for breakfast....
     
  6. SMS

    SMS Guest

    Traveling Man wrote:
    > On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:14:45 +0000, Larry wrote:
    >
    >> 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:eb878ca6-09a3-431a-bd69-
    >> df89889b2dc5@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
    >>
    >>> Pay-as-you-go service is $3.95 for two hours, down from $6.00 per hour
    >>> or $10.00 per day with T-Mobile.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> See? I told ya. SELLphones....nickel and dime you to death....
    >>
    >> Right across the parking lot from Starbucky's is Atlanta Bread and Panera
    >> Bread cafes, here. Free internet for ALL at both places. It didn't SELL
    >> before....it won't SELL, now.
    >>
    >> Stop by the front desk of Embassy Suites and ask the pretty girl for a wifi
    >> passcard. Instead of logging on for a free day, it'll work all month.

    >
    > I agree. I use Panera frequently when traveling. I even have Panera POIs
    > in my Garmin GPS so I can easily locate the nearest one.


    Most of the coffee houses in my area have free WiFi, as well as better
    coffee than Starbucks. Of course the whole city has free WiFi as well,
    though it's only 1Mb/s.

    Last year when I was back in Florida, in my college town, even Starbucks
    had free WiFi.

    Their new program of 2 hours of free WiFi with a prepaid card is
    probably going to work a lot better than the old system.

    They needed a way of providing WiFi at no cost to customers that buy
    something, without having the customer camp out all day after buying one
    cup of whatever. At independent coffee houses I've seen people that
    appear to be their for the long haul, taking up a four person table with
    their computer equipment, running extension cords across the floor,
    etc.. These places have turned into free office space, with people
    meeting clients there for business meetings, etc.

    For the person that is in a strange city, and that hasn't researched
    where to get free WiFi in advance, the Starbucks program is pretty good.
    According to most of the stories, no purchase is necessary to get the
    two free hours. Of course you could have multiple Starbucks cards to
    extend the amount of time, unless they look at your MAC address (in
    which case you could use a USB, CardBus, or ExpressCard WiFi adapter.
     
  7. Kurt

    Kurt Guest

    In article <Xns9A455EEE12717noonehomecom@208.49.80.253>,
    Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

    > 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:eb878ca6-09a3-431a-bd69-
    > df89889b2dc5@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
    >
    > > Pay-as-you-go service is $3.95 for two hours, down from $6.00 per hour
    > > or $10.00 per day with T-Mobile.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > See? I told ya. SELLphones....nickel and dime you to death....
    >
    > Right across the parking lot from Starbucky's is Atlanta Bread and Panera
    > Bread cafes, here. Free internet for ALL at both places. It didn't SELL
    > before....it won't SELL, now.
    >
    > Stop by the front desk of Embassy Suites and ask the pretty girl for a wifi
    > passcard. Instead of logging on for a free day, it'll work all month.
    >
    > Free wifi is just good business. Pick any lunch hour at Panera Bread and
    > see how many people are doing business on their laptops with Panera's
    > lunch. Walk across to Starbucky's and there's none. Coincidence?
    >
    > Greedy bastards. Wifi costs near nothing. The cash registers use so
    > little bandwidth and it's already installed in the stores, lots of stores.
    >
    > Oh, a little plug for a great little Italian fast food at the corner of
    > Montague Ave and Dorchester Rd in N Charleston, SC, Pizza Roma. Free wifi
    > to all from the Linksys I installed over the cash register connected
    > through Knology Cable. The Jersey boys who own it have laptops...(c; Best
    > Strombolis I ever tasted! They were raised in Dad's Italian restaurant
    > back in NJ. Jersey people yell at each other a lot, but you get used to it
    > when you find out the threats are not serious...(c;
    >
    > Hmm....time for breakfast....


    I fee the same way. When out to use my iPhone or laptop, I only give my
    buisness to places with free WIFI. Never use Starbucks. Even worse are
    the hotels that you pay to stay at that charge you. Generally won't stay
    there.

    --
    To reply by email, remove the word "space"
     
  8. SMS

    SMS Guest

    Kurt wrote:

    > I fee the same way. When out to use my iPhone or laptop, I only give my
    > buisness to places with free WIFI. Never use Starbucks. Even worse are
    > the hotels that you pay to stay at that charge you. Generally won't stay
    > there.


    The more you pay for the room, the less likely the hotel is to provide
    free WiFi.

    Still, in some areas the chain motels are exceptionally crappy, poorly
    located, and run down. I.e. in Reno, you can usually stay at a place
    like the Grand Sierra (formerly the Hilton) for less than a place like
    Quality Inn, La Quinta, etc., but there is no free wireless. I've been
    in some nice La Quinta's, but not all of the franchises are very good.
     
  9. Kurt wrote:
    > In article <Xns9A455EEE12717noonehomecom@208.49.80.253>,
    > Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:eb878ca6-09a3-431a-bd69-
    >>df89889b2dc5@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Pay-as-you-go service is $3.95 for two hours, down from $6.00 per hour
    >>>or $10.00 per day with T-Mobile.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>See? I told ya. SELLphones....nickel and dime you to death....
    >>
    >>Right across the parking lot from Starbucky's is Atlanta Bread and Panera
    >>Bread cafes, here. Free internet for ALL at both places. It didn't SELL
    >>before....it won't SELL, now.
    >>
    >>Stop by the front desk of Embassy Suites and ask the pretty girl for a wifi
    >>passcard. Instead of logging on for a free day, it'll work all month.
    >>
    >>Free wifi is just good business. Pick any lunch hour at Panera Bread and
    >>see how many people are doing business on their laptops with Panera's
    >>lunch. Walk across to Starbucky's and there's none. Coincidence?
    >>
    >>Greedy bastards. Wifi costs near nothing. The cash registers use so
    >>little bandwidth and it's already installed in the stores, lots of stores.
    >>
    >>Oh, a little plug for a great little Italian fast food at the corner of
    >>Montague Ave and Dorchester Rd in N Charleston, SC, Pizza Roma. Free wifi
    >>to all from the Linksys I installed over the cash register connected
    >>through Knology Cable. The Jersey boys who own it have laptops...(c; Best
    >>Strombolis I ever tasted! They were raised in Dad's Italian restaurant
    >>back in NJ. Jersey people yell at each other a lot, but you get used to it
    >>when you find out the threats are not serious...(c;
    >>
    >>Hmm....time for breakfast....

    >
    >
    > I fee the same way. When out to use my iPhone or laptop, I only give my
    > buisness to places with free WIFI. Never use Starbucks. Even worse are
    > the hotels that you pay to stay at that charge you. Generally won't stay
    > there.
    >


    Why not? It COSTS to create and maintain a network. It costs more to
    connect such a network to the internet in such a way as to provide
    decent performance for multiple users: Cisco Router or equivalent,
    firewall, N port switch where N is at least the number of rooms, T1 or
    T3 service. . . .

    Last time I stayed in a hotel, I paid a buck or two for internet access.
    I felt that I was getting my money's worth.
     
  10. SMS

    SMS Guest

    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:

    > Why not? It COSTS to create and maintain a network. It costs more to
    > connect such a network to the internet in such a way as to provide
    > decent performance for multiple users: Cisco Router or equivalent,
    > firewall, N port switch where N is at least the number of rooms, T1 or
    > T3 service. . . .
    >
    > Last time I stayed in a hotel, I paid a buck or two for internet access.
    > I felt that I was getting my money's worth.


    A couple of bucks is fine. In the hotel we're staying at tonight, it's
    $15/day. I think they're just being stupid. At $15, almost no one will
    use it, this isn't a business person's hotel, it's a resort hotel. At $5
    a day, a lot of people would probably use it. I'll take a list of free
    WiFi hots pots with me.
     
  11. Larry

    Larry Guest

    Ron <ron.clifford@peoplepc.com> wrote in
    news:e2abr31uhrutvrri3n7p4pohvs92md6ghl@4ax.com:

    > McDonalds, Burger King and Jack-in-the-Box are adding free, open WiFi
    > as fast as they can.
    >
    >


    Mickey D wants money, here. It was kinda high, too, for what you got.

    All the Mickey Ds are franchise stores so that may be the reason.
     
  12. Larry

    Larry Guest

    SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in
    news:47b5c368$0$36338$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net:

    > Kurt wrote:
    >
    >> I fee the same way. When out to use my iPhone or laptop, I only give
    >> my buisness to places with free WIFI. Never use Starbucks. Even worse
    >> are the hotels that you pay to stay at that charge you. Generally
    >> won't stay there.

    >
    > The more you pay for the room, the less likely the hotel is to provide
    > free WiFi.
    >
    > Still, in some areas the chain motels are exceptionally crappy, poorly
    > located, and run down. I.e. in Reno, you can usually stay at a place
    > like the Grand Sierra (formerly the Hilton) for less than a place like
    > Quality Inn, La Quinta, etc., but there is no free wireless. I've been
    > in some nice La Quinta's, but not all of the franchises are very good.
    >
    >


    Also, here in Charleston, there is a chain of UPS Stores around the city.
    They all have free wifi you can access from the parking lot free. I can't
    ship UPS, though, because some of their employees tried, unsuccessfully, to
    steal some of my musical instruments that were coming in to me a couple of
    years ago. I ship FEDEX or DHL because of the way I was treated.

    The UPS stores are not UPS owned. They're franchises from UPS to use the
    logo...shipping points, mailboxes, etc.
     
  13. Tinman

    Tinman Guest

    SMS wrote:
    > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    >
    >> Why not? It COSTS to create and maintain a network. It costs more
    >> to connect such a network to the internet in such a way as to provide
    >> decent performance for multiple users: Cisco Router or equivalent,
    >> firewall, N port switch where N is at least the number of rooms, T1
    >> or T3 service. . . .
    >>
    >> Last time I stayed in a hotel, I paid a buck or two for internet
    >> access. I felt that I was getting my money's worth.

    >
    > A couple of bucks is fine. In the hotel we're staying at tonight, it's
    > $15/day. I think they're just being stupid. At $15, almost no one will
    > use it, this isn't a business person's hotel, it's a resort hotel. At
    > $5 a day, a lot of people would probably use it. I'll take a list of
    > free WiFi hots pots with me.


    Don't know if this is a casino but a casino manager/friend told me they'd
    rather the guests be out of their room (gambling) so set the Internet fee
    higher than it should be, and certainly not free (this is a mid-level
    casino/hotel in Henderson, NV where you can still get a room for $69--but
    still pay $15 for 'Net access). Don't think they comp it either.


    --
    Mike
     
  14. SMS wrote:
    > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    >
    >> Why not? It COSTS to create and maintain a network. It costs more to
    >> connect such a network to the internet in such a way as to provide
    >> decent performance for multiple users: Cisco Router or equivalent,
    >> firewall, N port switch where N is at least the number of rooms, T1 or
    >> T3 service. . . .
    >>
    >> Last time I stayed in a hotel, I paid a buck or two for internet
    >> access. I felt that I was getting my money's worth.

    >
    >
    > A couple of bucks is fine. In the hotel we're staying at tonight, it's
    > $15/day. I think they're just being stupid. At $15, almost no one will
    > use it, this isn't a business person's hotel, it's a resort hotel. At $5
    > a day, a lot of people would probably use it. I'll take a list of free
    > WiFi hots pots with me.


    $15/day seems a little extreme!!
     
  15. Larry

    Larry Guest

    "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in
    news:47B5CB8A.5010406@comcast.net:

    > Why not? It COSTS to create and maintain a network. It costs more to
    > connect such a network to the internet in such a way as to provide
    > decent performance for multiple users: Cisco Router or equivalent,
    > firewall, N port switch where N is at least the number of rooms, T1 or
    > T3 service. . . .
    >


    The "system" I set up in the restaurant was a cable modem hooked to a
    Linksys wifi router I got from a thrift shop for $10. Way bigshot system.
    256 users can share but there's only about 20 seats in the whole place.
    We're not downloading from usenet, like at home, so it works great for all
    and he already had the cable running for himself and his credit card
    machine, so the extra cost was $10. I was referring to free wifi at
    RESTAURANTS, not the Waldorf-Astoria.

    Oh, I forgot, we bought an ethernet cable....add $15 because we paid
    retail.
     
  16. Larry

    Larry Guest

    SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in news:47b5d872$0$36338
    $742ec2ed@news.sonic.net:

    > I'll take a list of free
    > WiFi hots pots with me.
    >


    Chick-Fil-A is free...
    Ihop is free, too....
    all over town, here.

    One Ihop had a terrible signal, so I asked the general manager to let me
    see his installation. I moved the router from behind the desk on the floor
    to sitting atop a bookshelf with the antennas pointing up, not buried under
    his desktop machine. Signals are great, now, even in the parking lot!

    He said the guy who installed it didn't know much about radio systems....it
    was him...(c; Will trade network troubleshooting for breakfast!...(c;
     
  17. SMS

    SMS Guest

    Tinman wrote:

    > Don't know if this is a casino but a casino manager/friend told me they'd
    > rather the guests be out of their room (gambling) so set the Internet fee
    > higher than it should be, and certainly not free (this is a mid-level
    > casino/hotel in Henderson, NV where you can still get a room for $69--but
    > still pay $15 for 'Net access). Don't think they comp it either.


    Yes it is a casino hotel, not that we've ever been to the casino, in
    fact we found a side entrance and parking lot that lets us completely
    avoid that whole area of the hotel. The room is $69 for the first two
    nights, free for the third night. It's a much nicer room, at a lower
    cost, than the nearby small chain motels, but there are no freebies like
    WiFi, or continental breakfast. Normally I'm fine with something like La
    Quinta, if it's a reasonably good franchise, but all those types of
    motels in this area are either run down and in bad parts of town, or
    relatively new and nearly twice as expensive.

    Last year we stayed in a cottage in the hostel in Banff, and even at the
    hostel there was free WiFi.
     
  18. John Navas

    John Navas Guest

    On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:44:10 +0000, Larry <noone@home.com> wrote in
    <Xns9A458C604CE20noonehomecom@208.49.80.253>:

    >"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in
    >news:47B5CB8A.5010406@comcast.net:
    >
    >> Why not? It COSTS to create and maintain a network. It costs more to
    >> connect such a network to the internet in such a way as to provide
    >> decent performance for multiple users: Cisco Router or equivalent,
    >> firewall, N port switch where N is at least the number of rooms, T1 or
    >> T3 service. . . .

    >
    >The "system" I set up in the restaurant was a cable modem hooked to a
    >Linksys wifi router I got from a thrift shop for $10. Way bigshot system.
    >256 users can share but there's only about 20 seats in the whole place.
    >We're not downloading from usenet, like at home, so it works great for all
    >and he already had the cable running for himself and his credit card
    >machine, so the extra cost was $10. I was referring to free wifi at
    >RESTAURANTS, not the Waldorf-Astoria.
    >
    >Oh, I forgot, we bought an ethernet cable....add $15 because we paid
    >retail.


    Which will be great until some serious problem occurs, with the
    inevitable backlash.

    --
    Best regards,
    John Navas <http:/navasgroup.com>

    "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
    boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." --Gene Spafford
     
  19. John Navas

    John Navas Guest

    On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:27:38 -0500, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in <47B5CB8A.5010406@comcast.net>:

    >Kurt wrote:


    >Last time I stayed in a hotel, I paid a buck or two for internet access.
    > I felt that I was getting my money's worth.


    I just use my 3G cell service, which I'm already paying for, so the
    incremental cost is zero; likewise the hassle.

    --
    Best regards,
    John Navas <http:/navasgroup.com>

    "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
    boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." --Gene Spafford
     
  20. SMS

    SMS Guest

    SMS wrote:
    > Tinman wrote:
    >
    >> Don't know if this is a casino but a casino manager/friend told me
    >> they'd rather the guests be out of their room (gambling) so set the
    >> Internet fee higher than it should be, and certainly not free (this is
    >> a mid-level casino/hotel in Henderson, NV where you can still get a
    >> room for $69--but still pay $15 for 'Net access). Don't think they
    >> comp it either.

    >
    > Yes it is a casino hotel, not that we've ever been to the casino, in
    > fact we found a side entrance and parking lot that lets us completely
    > avoid that whole area of the hotel. The room is $69 for the first two
    > nights, free for the third night. It's a much nicer room, at a lower
    > cost, than the nearby small chain motels, but there are no freebies like
    > WiFi, or continental breakfast.


    One thing about Reno that's strange is that the smaller motels would
    rather leave their rooms empty than compete on price. There's a pretty
    nice Hampton Inn that would have been ideal, it's away from the seedy
    downtown area, it's closer to Mount Rose and closer to a lot of the
    better suburban restaurants, but they charge $119 per night. We saw it
    from the freeway and the parking lot was empty.
     

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