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Analog Activation?!?

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by bag@sack.org, Nov 9, 2003.

  1. Todd Allcock

    Todd Allcock Guest

    Jud Hardcastle <Jud_Hardcastle@ureach.removethis.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.1a1aaddb197bea509896b4@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net>...

    > > Have your carrier add CID to your account and see what happens! ;-)
    > > (Unless, of course, your Motorola is "smart" enough to ignore CID, but
    > > if it was new enough to deal with CID, it'd be new enough to hdave the
    > > feature.)
    > >

    >
    > Nope. The account *DOES* have CID active. There are two phones on the
    > account--one digital (main#) and one analog only (family#). The digital
    > gets CID--the analog doesn't. So either that feature is managed at the
    > phone level in the account (most likely) or the old Motorola bag phone
    > ignores it. In any case apparently YMMV.


    Perhaps, but I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. Or else
    I'm confused now- both of these phones of yours are on the same phone
    number or not? (Do you swap ESNs with your carrier or are they two
    different lines on one account like a family plan?) The CID option is
    turned on or off on a per number basis. If the analog phone has it's
    own number full-time (like the secondary phone on a family plan) then
    it can have different options enabled than your main phone. (CID,
    internet, etc.)

    This CID conversation started when Bagphone Larry suggested that a
    poster call his carrier on 611 from a 3-watt phone in the sticks
    whenever the handheld couldn't reach and request the carrier switch
    his ESN from the handheld to the bag phone right then and there. I
    cautioned that if he does that, also request the CID option be removed
    from the account since non-CID analog phones tend not to ring when
    they receive CID info they don't know what to do with. Your phone
    doesn't get CID data unless your carrier elects to send it.

    Back when CID on cellular was new, carriers generally checked to make
    sure the phone they activated was CID capable before enabling it on a
    number. These days, "all" phones have CID, so unless the CSR has run
    into the problem before, they aren't likely to verify a phone is
    CID-compatible everytime someone requests an ESN change.

    I think I confused you by using the word "account" when I probably
    should have said "line" or "line of service". Sorry for the
    confusion.
     



    › See More: Analog Activation?!?
  2. Todd Allcock

    Todd Allcock Guest

    bag@sack.org wrote in message news:<1NCdnQb4pNUqgyyiRVn-hQ@giganews.com>...
    > GSMthemobilestandard@yahoo.com
    > That's all you need to know. I should get GSM right?!? LMFAO


    Absolutely- then you don't have to worry if your phone will work in
    rural areas or not. You'll already know it won't! ;-)
     
  3. In article <de37a2e0.0311111747.117df0e7@posting.google.com>,
    elecconnec@aol.com says...
    > Jud Hardcastle <Jud_Hardcastle@ureach.removethis.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.1a1aaddb197bea509896b4@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net>...
    >
    > > > Have your carrier add CID to your account and see what happens! ;-)
    > > > (Unless, of course, your Motorola is "smart" enough to ignore CID, but
    > > > if it was new enough to deal with CID, it'd be new enough to hdave the
    > > > feature.)
    > > >

    > >
    > > Nope. The account *DOES* have CID active. There are two phones on the
    > > account--one digital (main#) and one analog only (family#). The digital
    > > gets CID--the analog doesn't. So either that feature is managed at the
    > > phone level in the account (most likely) or the old Motorola bag phone
    > > ignores it. In any case apparently YMMV.

    >
    > Perhaps, but I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. Or else
    > I'm confused now- both of these phones of yours are on the same phone
    > number or not? (Do you swap ESNs with your carrier or are they two
    > different lines on one account like a family plan?) The CID option is
    > turned on or off on a per number basis. If the analog phone has it's
    > own number full-time (like the secondary phone on a family plan) then
    > it can have different options enabled than your main phone. (CID,
    > internet, etc.)
    >

    Gotcha. They're different numbers on one account--so different options.
    Sorry--thought you were saying one option per account.
    --
    Jud
    Dallas TX USA
     
  4. Sterling

    Sterling Guest

    And another good thing is that you can use it even if it's just 1 or 2 bars
    strong.. Assuming your "loud" enough for the tower to hear you.

    "JRW" <no_addy@no_.com> wrote in message
    news:crYrb.3019$gv7.1230008413@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
    > bag@sack.org wrote:
    > > Thanks for the pertanant replies. Looks like it's going on ebay.

    TDMA/PCS
    > > and a yagi or mag-mount is about the only other affordable option.

    Remember,
    > > this is for use in remote areas not something I want to try and lug

    around
    > > when my toy phone will work just fine.

    >
    > And another good thing about TDMA/Analog over CDMA is that it doesn't
    > matter how far you are from the tower (within reason), unlike CDMA if
    > you are more than 4 or 5 miles you'll get timing problems. A rooftop
    > yagi and away ya go....
    >
    >
     
  5. Sterling

    Sterling Guest

    Get Golden State Cellular to activate it.. just lie about your address! lol

    <bag@sack.org> wrote in message news:IvidnSRZnfpnOjOiRVn-gw@giganews.com...
    > I've got an old Motorola 2744 bag phone I'm trying to use. I've googled
    > posts for daze and read 'em all. (Gotta love that Larry). Yes, I

    downloaded
    > the bible as well. So far, I can make collect, calling card and 911 calls.
    >
    > Now that I want to attempt to utilize this relic, the schmucks in Southern
    > California don't want to activate anything other then GSM. The Cingular

    rep
    > said new prepaid activation was GSM only. I've got TDMA with ATTWS and

    it's
    > pretty good (even in Death Valley). But I need this bag phone activated

    for
    > even more remote usage. Maybe some day I'll investigate satelite phones
    > but...Does anyone know of any way to do an analog activation on prepay?
    > Especially in the Cal-Nev region.
    >
     
  6. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 18:18:10 -0800, "Sterling"
    <buggyboyvt@icehouse.net> posted in alt.cellular.motorola:

    [piggybacking]
    >"JRW" <no_addy@no_.com> wrote in message
    >news:crYrb.3019$gv7.1230008413@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
    >> bag@sack.org wrote:


    >> > Thanks for the pertanant replies. Looks like it's going on ebay. TDMA/PCS
    >> > and a yagi or mag-mount is about the only other affordable option. Remember,
    >> > this is for use in remote areas not something I want to try and lug around
    >> > when my toy phone will work just fine.


    >> And another good thing about TDMA/Analog over CDMA is that it doesn't
    >> matter how far you are from the tower (within reason), unlike CDMA if
    >> you are more than 4 or 5 miles you'll get timing problems.


    Actually, it's TDMA (*TIME* Division Multiple Access) that has a range
    limited by the speed of light. CDMA doesn't. (GSM, being TDMA, also
    does.)
    --
    Al - rukbat at optonline dot net
     
  7. Jerry

    Jerry Guest

    Al Klein <rukbat@pern.org> wrote in
    news:4o4jrvkkh9cdr206roecrm0vujvnvf5n0k@Pern.rk:

    >>> And another good thing about TDMA/Analog over CDMA is that it
    >>> doesn't matter how far you are from the tower (within reason),
    >>> unlike CDMA if you are more than 4 or 5 miles you'll get timing
    >>> problems.

    >
    > Actually, it's TDMA (*TIME* Division Multiple Access) that has a
    > range limited by the speed of light. CDMA doesn't. (GSM, being
    > TDMA, also does.)


    CDMA is not limited by the speed of light? Interesting. You should
    publish a paper on this.

    --
    regards,
    jerry
     
  8. Sterling

    Sterling Guest

    What?! TDMA's and GSM's distance limitation is due to timing. At about 25
    miles, by the time the BTS/phone transmits, the receiver will have moved
    onto another user and will be received out of sync. Calls will terminate
    beyond a particular distance, due to frequency/transmission interval
    changes.

    This can happen with CDMA too, but the limit isn't as strictly defined, and
    for different reasons.

    "Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.org> wrote in message
    news:4o4jrvkkh9cdr206roecrm0vujvnvf5n0k@Pern.rk...
    > On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 18:18:10 -0800, "Sterling"
    > <buggyboyvt@icehouse.net> posted in alt.cellular.motorola:
    >
    > [piggybacking]
    > >"JRW" <no_addy@no_.com> wrote in message
    > >news:crYrb.3019$gv7.1230008413@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
    > >> bag@sack.org wrote:

    >
    > >> > Thanks for the pertanant replies. Looks like it's going on ebay.

    TDMA/PCS
    > >> > and a yagi or mag-mount is about the only other affordable option.

    Remember,
    > >> > this is for use in remote areas not something I want to try and lug

    around
    > >> > when my toy phone will work just fine.

    >
    > >> And another good thing about TDMA/Analog over CDMA is that it doesn't
    > >> matter how far you are from the tower (within reason), unlike CDMA if
    > >> you are more than 4 or 5 miles you'll get timing problems.

    >
    > Actually, it's TDMA (*TIME* Division Multiple Access) that has a range
    > limited by the speed of light. CDMA doesn't. (GSM, being TDMA, also
    > does.)
    > --
    > Al - rukbat at optonline dot net
     
  9. Squirrel

    Squirrel Guest

    Is it possible to do an ESN switch, tell Verizon it's a CDMA phone,
    but give them an AMPS only ESN? Do they have an ESN to phone model
    mapping? Might be able to get away with it.

    SM
     
  10. Jer

    Jer Guest

    Squirrel wrote:
    > Is it possible to do an ESN switch, tell Verizon it's a CDMA phone,
    > but give them an AMPS only ESN? Do they have an ESN to phone model
    > mapping? Might be able to get away with it.
    >
    > SM


    Yes, ESN mapping is possible. The first four bytes of the ESN is a
    manufacturer code, though the larger question is, Does the carrier give
    a whit? Some do as this info is critical for a certain fraud prevention
    technique.

    --
    jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' ICQ = 35253273
    "All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
    what we know." -- Richard Wilbur
     
  11. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:50:50 -0800, "Sterling"
    <buggyboyvt@icehouse.net> posted in alt.cellular.motorola:

    >"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.org> wrote in message
    >news:4o4jrvkkh9cdr206roecrm0vujvnvf5n0k@Pern.rk...
    >> On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 18:18:10 -0800, "Sterling"
    >> <buggyboyvt@icehouse.net> posted in alt.cellular.motorola:
    >> [piggybacking]
    >> >"JRW" <no_addy@no_.com> wrote in message
    >> >news:crYrb.3019$gv7.1230008413@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
    >> >> bag@sack.org wrote:


    >> >> > Thanks for the pertanant replies. Looks like it's going on ebay. TDMA/PCS
    >> >> > and a yagi or mag-mount is about the only other affordable option. Remember,
    >> >> > this is for use in remote areas not something I want to try and lug around
    >> >> > when my toy phone will work just fine.


    >> >> And another good thing about TDMA/Analog over CDMA is that it doesn't
    >> >> matter how far you are from the tower (within reason), unlike CDMA if
    >> >> you are more than 4 or 5 miles you'll get timing problems.


    >> Actually, it's TDMA (*TIME* Division Multiple Access) that has a range
    >> limited by the speed of light. CDMA doesn't. (GSM, being TDMA, also
    >> does.)


    >What?! TDMA's and GSM's distance limitation is due to timing. At about 25
    >miles, by the time the BTS/phone transmits, the receiver will have moved
    >onto another user and will be received out of sync. Calls will terminate
    >beyond a particular distance, due to frequency/transmission interval
    >changes.


    >This can happen with CDMA too, but the limit isn't as strictly defined, and
    >for different reasons.


    That's what I said.
    --
    Al - rukbat at optonline dot net
     
  12. Todd Allcock

    Todd Allcock Guest

    "Sterling" <buggyboyvt@icehouse.net> wrote in message news:<ZwDub.190$Fa1.58453@news.uswest.net>...
    > What?! TDMA's and GSM's distance limitation is due to timing. At about 25
    > miles, by the time the BTS/phone transmits, the receiver will have moved
    > onto another user and will be received out of sync.


    I think you made Al's point. Why is there a timing issue? Because
    the cellular transmission is limited by the speed of light, and the
    very small time lag at 25-miles out becomes a problem.

    > Calls will terminate
    > beyond a particular distance, due to frequency/transmission interval
    > changes.


    ....caused by?
     
  13. matt weber

    matt weber Guest

    On 19 Nov 2003 18:59:22 -0800, elecconnec@aol.com (Todd Allcock)
    wrote:

    >"Sterling" <buggyboyvt@icehouse.net> wrote in message news:<ZwDub.190$Fa1.58453@news.uswest.net>...
    >> What?! TDMA's and GSM's distance limitation is due to timing. At about 25
    >> miles, by the time the BTS/phone transmits, the receiver will have moved
    >> onto another user and will be received out of sync.

    >
    >I think you made Al's point. Why is there a timing issue? Because
    >the cellular transmission is limited by the speed of light, and the
    >very small time lag at 25-miles out becomes a problem.
    >
    >> Calls will terminate
    >> beyond a particular distance, due to frequency/transmission interval
    >> changes.

    >
    >...caused by?

    The inability the base station to receive uplink within the time slot.
    There are about 1800 time slots per second (8 x 217), so each isn't
    very long (about 500 microseconds for data, the rest is lost to the
    guard band timing. Each 150 meters round trip is 1 micro second, so
    if you only have about 30 microseconds for the guard band, you have to
    start tweaking the timing as soon as the phone is more than 4.5km away
    just to stay witihn the guard band, and at 150 meters to stay centered
    in the time slot.

    There are some BTS's operated by Telstra in Australia that have
    sacrificed every other time slot to get beyond the timing advance
    limit. The timing is sufficiently tight that the BTS sends the phone
    a timing advance message, which alters the timing advance on the
    transmission, It runs from 0-63 units, each unit is about half a
    kilometer. At 35km, there is no longer enough timing advance available
    to keep the incoming transmission within the time slot at the BTS, and
    the call will fail.

    If you are in a light aircraft, you can see this effect quite clearly.
    YOu get an indication that service is available and see the available
    carriers, but you cannot place calls because the phone is unable to
    register until it gets within 35km of the BTS. I have also seen in
    high floors of hotels in the Middle East. In Bahrain, on high floors,
    you can pick up Saudi BT's, but you cannot register. More than 35km
    away...
     
  14. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On 19 Nov 2003 18:59:22 -0800, elecconnec@aol.com (Todd Allcock)
    posted in alt.cellular.motorola:

    >"Sterling" <buggyboyvt@icehouse.net> wrote in message news:<ZwDub.190$Fa1.58453@news.uswest.net>...


    >> What?! TDMA's and GSM's distance limitation is due to timing. At about 25
    >> miles, by the time the BTS/phone transmits, the receiver will have moved
    >> onto another user and will be received out of sync.


    >I think you made Al's point. Why is there a timing issue? Because
    >the cellular transmission is limited by the speed of light


    And because TDMA depends on time slots, which CDMA doesn't. That was
    my point.
    --
    Al - rukbat at optonline dot net
     

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