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Analog systems, remaining channel capacity.

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by N9WOS, Dec 21, 2003.

  1. Jer

    Jer Guest

    Larry W4CSC wrote:


    >
    > Hams fixed that.....PSK31. Amazing digital mode.
    >



    Now if we can just get that limo unit to upgrade. :)

    --
    jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' ICQ = 35253273
    "All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
    what we know." -- Richard Wilbur



    › See More: Analog systems, remaining channel capacity.
  2. Charles Hoch

    Charles Hoch Guest

    In article <HBlFb.143866$Vu5.9433711@twister.southeast.rr.com>,
    Real Estate Agent <spamblockCaryRealtor@nc.rr.com> wrote:
    >
    >"CK" wrote...
    >> OnStar has said that selected 2004 and all 2005 models will be equipped

    >with
    >> Tri-mode services. They also say that an upgrade "should" be available

    >when
    >> and if analog goes dark in 07 or 08. I have a 2003 Saab and it is analog.


    Just out of curiousity, which tri-modes will they be supporting?
    GSM? TDMA? CDMA? 850Mhz cellular? 1900MHz PCS?
  3. CharlesH

    CharlesH Guest

    In article <bs62uu$mg8@library1.airnews.net>, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:
    >> As long as the crypto voice from the President's limo is on AMPS, I'd
    >> say we're quite safe for a while....(c;

    >
    >I can't imagine why the FCC would care what band the limo phone uses,
    >the limo occupant does whatever he wants anyway despite what anyone with
    >a clue says. I wouldn't be surprised to open that limo's trunk to find
    >a Model 19 teletype banging away. :)


    While the president may be able to override FCC regulations with respect
    to the equipment he uses, if there is no AMPS tower to talk to, the point
    is moot.

    And besides, I suspect they use their own frequencies and equipment for
    national security matters. While AMPS can be encrypted, it is still
    subject to jamming and other interference. Sending tones (representing
    the encrypted conversation) over an analog channel seems a bit quaint,
    like something out of an old James Bond movie.
  4. Mike

    Mike Guest

    On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 23:18:20 -0600, Aboutdakota
    <aboutdakota@hot-mail.com> wrote:

    >I think it will depend on how GSM/UMTS and CDMA have coverage everywhere
    >there is coverage. Right now, AMPS is the only truly universal wireless
    >voice protocol in the United States. Many parts of Canada and Mexico
    >still also have AMPS coverage, and thier upgrade schedule to digital is
    >minimal.


    Well, Canada seems to be doing better about it (in its populated areas
    and beyond) than some U.S. carriers! I've personally driven through
    western New Brunswick, near the U.S. border with Maine, with a GSM
    signal available in many places along the main highway through there.
    Entering New Brunswick at St. Stephen (?), I got a Rogers AT&T GSM
    signal near the border over on the U.S. side, and AT&T's U.S. GSM
    coverage was nowhere to be found for miles before that.

    Mike
  5. Daoler

    Daoler Guest

    > Just out of curiousity, which tri-modes will they be supporting?
    > GSM? TDMA? CDMA? 850Mhz cellular? 1900MHz PCS?
    >


    1900MHz PCS is actually GSM;
    and GSM is one of the TDMA systems
    CDMA works on 850MHz band
  6. Jer

    Jer Guest

    CharlesH wrote:
    > In article <bs62uu$mg8@library1.airnews.net>, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:
    >
    >>>As long as the crypto voice from the President's limo is on AMPS, I'd
    >>>say we're quite safe for a while....(c;

    >>
    >>I can't imagine why the FCC would care what band the limo phone uses,
    >>the limo occupant does whatever he wants anyway despite what anyone with
    >>a clue says. I wouldn't be surprised to open that limo's trunk to find
    >>a Model 19 teletype banging away. :)

    >
    >
    > While the president may be able to override FCC regulations with respect
    > to the equipment he uses, if there is no AMPS tower to talk to, the point
    > is moot.
    >
    > And besides, I suspect they use their own frequencies and equipment for
    > national security matters. While AMPS can be encrypted, it is still
    > subject to jamming and other interference. Sending tones (representing
    > the encrypted conversation) over an analog channel seems a bit quaint,
    > like something out of an old James Bond movie.
    >



    Ya know, that you've said that, what if a Code Orange declaration also
    means the Big Car starts using Morse code, while scammers and jammers
    are still looking for him up somewhere in the etherworld of technology.
    Security through obfuscation rooted in antiquity. "Mr. Ridge? on my
    mark, let fly pidgeon #3 - and stand ready the balloons!"

    --
    jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' ICQ = 35253273
    "All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
    what we know." -- Richard Wilbur
  7. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:16:31 -0600, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:

    > Security through obfuscation rooted in antiquity. "Mr. Ridge? on my
    >mark, let fly pidgeon #3 - and stand ready the balloons!"
    >

    The Japs and Germans never figured out what language the Navajo
    Indians on the army frequencies in WW2 were using. It was one of the
    most effective communications systems in the war in a code that was
    never broken.


    Larry W4CSC

    NNNN
  8. Jer

    Jer Guest

    Larry W4CSC wrote:
    > On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:16:31 -0600, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Security through obfuscation rooted in antiquity. "Mr. Ridge? on my
    >>mark, let fly pidgeon #3 - and stand ready the balloons!"
    >>

    >
    > The Japs and Germans never figured out what language the Navajo
    > Indians on the army frequencies in WW2 were using. It was one of the
    > most effective communications systems in the war in a code that was
    > never broken.
    >
    >
    > Larry W4CSC
    >
    > NNNN



    Maybe they've resurrected that code for writing the notes in those
    little cans tied to the pidgeon's leg and hammering away on the M-19 in
    the trunk. :)

    --
    jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' ICQ = 35253273
    "All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
    what we know." -- Richard Wilbur
  9. Jer wrote:
    >
    > Maybe they've resurrected that code for writing the notes in those
    > little cans tied to the pidgeon's leg and hammering away on the M-19 in
    > the trunk. :)



    Knowing how the WHCA works, I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't
    using a KY-8 type of system.

    mdh
  10. On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 23:49:33 GMT, noone@home.com (Larry W4CSC) wrote:

    >I'm convinced cellular either doesn't have this kind of
    >automated operational tests, or chooses to ignore them, because they
    >always seem quite interested in my outage reports as if it were the
    >first they'd heard that the equipment in X location was dead.


    Yeah, kind of reminds me of every time I would talk to a CSR about the
    well known (at least in this group) SMS bugs with the 3035, it was
    always the "first time we've ever heard of it." Didn't matter that at
    one time I had six trouble tickets open on the matter. Communications
    companies generally do a piss poor job of communicating within their
    own company.
  11. David S

    David S Guest

    On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 04:46:01 GMT, "Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@aol.com> chose
    to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:

    >> As long as the crypto voice from the President's limo is on AMPS, I'd
    >> say we're quite safe for a while....(c;

    >
    >I'd say the limophone has little bearing on the FCC's decision, one way or
    >another. The 2008 sunset is already warning enough to carriers,
    >manufacturers and users alike.


    Oh, like the White House, Pentagon, Secret Service, NSA, etc. can't spend
    all the bucks they want to completely redo the limo in about 3 days,
    anytime they want.

    I'm surprised they even bother with the commercial cellular network as it
    is. (For a dedicated vehicle like that, I mean; I'm sure they all carry toy
    phones just like you see on The West Wing (albeit some of them with a lot
    more capabilities than anything you and I can get our hands on).)

    -
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "I avoid church religiously." - Lt. Col. Henry Blake
  12. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 05:55:59 GMT, David S <dwstreeter@att.net> wrote:

    >
    >Oh, like the White House, Pentagon, Secret Service, NSA, etc. can't spend
    >all the bucks they want to completely redo the limo in about 3 days,
    >anytime they want.


    Er, ah, I think it's probably more related to the impossibility of
    passing NSA amazing encryption through the amazingly narrow-banded 8
    or 13 Kbps CDMA phone system that can't even reproduce Verizon's OWN
    music-on-hold, much less a 128-bit encryption endcoded voice.
    >
    >I'm surprised they even bother with the commercial cellular network as it
    >is. (For a dedicated vehicle like that, I mean; I'm sure they all carry toy
    >phones just like you see on The West Wing (albeit some of them with a lot
    >more capabilities than anything you and I can get our hands on).)
    >

    They don't "bother" with it. It's the backup system.

    George also calls his missus to see if he needs to stop by the Piggly
    Wiggly to pick up anything on the way home from Iraq.


    Larry W4CSC

    NNNN
  13. Aboutdakota

    Aboutdakota Guest

    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com
    Lines: 24
    Xref: news.newshosting.com alt.cellular:43835 alt.cellular.cingular:26483 alt.cellular.verizon:132104



    Daoler wrote:
    >>Just out of curiousity, which tri-modes will they be supporting?
    >>GSM? TDMA? CDMA? 850Mhz cellular? 1900MHz PCS?
    >>

    >
    >
    > 1900MHz PCS is actually GSM;
    > and GSM is one of the TDMA systems
    > CDMA works on 850MHz band
    >
    >


    PCS simply refers to 1900 mHz band. DCS 1900 is actually GSM. TDMA,
    GSM, and CDMA all run in 1900 mHz band. GSM, TDMA, CDMA, and AMPS all
    run in the 800/850 mHz band (which is the same band, normally with
    TDMA/CDMA/AMPS it is referred to as 800, but is referred to 850 with
    GSM). Motorola's iDEN, the Nextel National Network, also runs in the
    800 mHz band, but it has licenses that differ from the Cellular A and
    Cellular B carriers.

    ==AD
  14. Aboutdakota

    Aboutdakota Guest

    Mike wrote:
    > On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 23:18:20 -0600, Aboutdakota
    > <aboutdakota@hot-mail.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I think it will depend on how GSM/UMTS and CDMA have coverage everywhere
    >>there is coverage. Right now, AMPS is the only truly universal wireless
    >>voice protocol in the United States. Many parts of Canada and Mexico
    >>still also have AMPS coverage, and thier upgrade schedule to digital is
    >>minimal.

    >
    >
    > Well, Canada seems to be doing better about it (in its populated areas
    > and beyond) than some U.S. carriers! I've personally driven through
    > western New Brunswick, near the U.S. border with Maine, with a GSM
    > signal available in many places along the main highway through there.
    > Entering New Brunswick at St. Stephen (?), I got a Rogers AT&T GSM
    > signal near the border over on the U.S. side, and AT&T's U.S. GSM
    > coverage was nowhere to be found for miles before that.
    >
    > Mike


    Yes, I do agree that Canadian coverage in border areas far exceeds the
    coverage from U.S. carriers. When I get about 35 miles from Canada, I
    can start expecting a text message from Rogers welcoming me to Canada.
    I used to live in one of Verizon's ""100 % Digital"" markets, yet almost
    every phone call would connect to SaskTel Mobility AMPS, and more
    recently SaskTel Mobility CDMA. Most VZW customers need to have their
    phones taken in to have thei SaskTel SID marked as negative, because
    that signal is much stronger and more consistent than Verizon's. They
    also have coverage beat. With any of the Mobility Companies(Telus may
    be an exception, because it is not a "Crown Corporation"), you do not
    have any roaming charges while in Canada. I think Rogers has followed
    this. Fido (Microcell) has begun offering "Local Wireless Service",
    where it claims to effectively replace a landline (I have not heard any
    complaints of its Vancouver service yet).

    Telus has been in legal trouble recently for false advertising and
    harassment of competitors' customers. Telus has been calling customers
    on wireless phones urging them to switch to Telus, the "most reliable
    network with fewer dropped calls". Not surprisingly, Verizon
    Communications own a stake in Telus Mobility. Telus's advertising of
    "most reliable network with fewer dropped calls" also had the plug
    pulled because it does not meet that line, often having more dropped
    calls than any other carrier.

    ==AD
  15. John Smith

    John Smith Guest

    >After years of experience with cellular, literally from its first
    >installations, I'm convinced cellular either doesn't have this kind of
    >automated operational tests,


    Yes it does. Starting around 1995 with Lucent's Series II equipment. It does
    all that and more. Radios -and- antennas are routinely checked every 10-30
    minutes. Pain in the butt since the microprocessors sometimes get confuzzed
    and "forget" to tell the radio to transmit, triggering a bogus automated
    trouble ticket. There are a lot of other unrelated causes of false positives
    as well. Nearly all the major cellular base station platforms do this now
    (Nokia, Ericsson, Lucent, etc).

    >.....bringing back
    >some fond paging memories at 1AM on Sunday night after a massive storm
    >front passage. Ah, the smell of burning hardline....(c;


    And burning brakes if you towed generators.

    Try pager therapy. That's adapting a skeet-throwing machine to sling old
    inoperative pagers. Consider enlisting a reloading friend make 'hideous'
    rounds (ground up glass & wire brad nails instead of lead shot)...it's
    gratifying to see that cloud of misery hit a flying pager. Plus, you should
    find a nearly endless supply of non-working (but otherwise intact) pagers
    from stores, repair centers & carriers. Resist the urge to use machine guns,
    as the surviving locals will be really annoyed at you. [8^)
  16. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:02:22 -0500, "John Smith" <oss1943@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    >>After years of experience with cellular, literally from its first
    >>installations, I'm convinced cellular either doesn't have this kind of
    >>automated operational tests,

    >
    >Yes it does. Starting around 1995 with Lucent's Series II equipment. It does
    >all that and more. Radios -and- antennas are routinely checked every 10-30
    >minutes. Pain in the butt since the microprocessors sometimes get confuzzed
    >and "forget" to tell the radio to transmit, triggering a bogus automated
    >trouble ticket. There are a lot of other unrelated causes of false positives
    >as well. Nearly all the major cellular base station platforms do this now
    >(Nokia, Ericsson, Lucent, etc).


    Are they 100% retrofitted to old acquisitions like Charleston, SC's
    old Motorola switches on formerly GTE Wireless formerly Cellular One
    formerly Cellular One of Charleston systems they bought up and
    consolidated? Would the fact that we cannot get caller ID data (only
    number like the old days) indicated our archaeic system doesn't have
    this kind of capability, either? (I'm told caller ID name cannot be
    printed on tickets and displayed on phone capable of it because our
    switch is too old by Verizon employees.)
    >
    >>.....bringing back
    >>some fond paging memories at 1AM on Sunday night after a massive storm
    >>front passage. Ah, the smell of burning hardline....(c;

    >
    >And burning brakes if you towed generators.
    >
    >Try pager therapy. That's adapting a skeet-throwing machine to sling old
    >inoperative pagers. Consider enlisting a reloading friend make 'hideous'
    >rounds (ground up glass & wire brad nails instead of lead shot)...it's
    >gratifying to see that cloud of misery hit a flying pager. Plus, you should
    >find a nearly endless supply of non-working (but otherwise intact) pagers
    >from stores, repair centers & carriers. Resist the urge to use machine guns,
    >as the surviving locals will be really annoyed at you. [8^)
    >

    I learned a lesson in Robert's office one day. There was a great
    looking pager sitting on his desk and dummy me picks it up to look at
    it. Robert, not missing a beat or looking up from his monitor, says
    "That pager was returned after they dropped it in a loaded toilet." I
    never handled a pager he didn't handle first after that....(c;

    He bought huge banks of pager parts. We built a screen room and he
    had all the tests sets and fixtures for a huge variety of pagers. We
    sat for hours matching working decoder boards with working receivers.
    His system covered all the bands, VHF, UHF, 900 Mhz so he could put
    anyone's pager on his system a customer brought in. He also had all
    the pager hacker gadgets to break into locked up pagers to reprogram
    them....
  17. Jer

    Jer Guest

    Larry W4CSC wrote:

    > I learned a lesson in Robert's office one day. There was a great
    > looking pager sitting on his desk and dummy me picks it up to look at
    > it. Robert, not missing a beat or looking up from his monitor, says
    > "That pager was returned after they dropped it in a loaded toilet." I
    > never handled a pager he didn't handle first after that....(c;
    >



    This just begs the question, "what was he doing with it on his desk?"


    --
    jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' ICQ = 35253273
    "All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
    what we know." -- Richard Wilbur
  18. CharlesH

    CharlesH Guest

    In article <3ff0deb3.128764247@news.knology.net>,
    Larry W4CSC <not@home.com> wrote:
    >Are they 100% retrofitted to old acquisitions like Charleston, SC's
    >old Motorola switches on formerly GTE Wireless formerly Cellular One
    >formerly Cellular One of Charleston systems they bought up and
    >consolidated? Would the fact that we cannot get caller ID data (only
    >number like the old days) indicated our archaeic system doesn't have
    >this kind of capability, either? (I'm told caller ID name cannot be
    >printed on tickets and displayed on phone capable of it because our
    >switch is too old by Verizon employees.)


    You mean the caller ID name on the mobile phone? Does ANY system send
    the caller ID name info to the mobile? (Distinct from the phone looking
    up the number in its phone book and displaying the name if found.)

    Or the mobile user's name on landline phones' caller ID? This seems to
    depend on whether the landline company and the wireless company have
    come to financial terms on the cost of access to the wireless company's
    name database, and if the wireless company is technically able to
    provide it. The name is not carried in the caller id info.
  19. > Or the mobile user's name on landline phones' caller ID? This seems to
    > depend on whether the landline company and the wireless company have
    > come to financial terms on the cost of access to the wireless company's
    > name database, and if the wireless company is technically able to
    > provide it. The name is not carried in the caller id info.


    I was a T-mobile customer for 6 years until a few days ago when I moved to
    Verizon. In the last 6 months or so on T-Mobile when I made calls to people
    with caller ID that could display names it would show my name.

    -Eric
  20. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:34:41 -0600, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:

    >Larry W4CSC wrote:
    >
    >> I learned a lesson in Robert's office one day. There was a great
    >> looking pager sitting on his desk and dummy me picks it up to look at
    >> it. Robert, not missing a beat or looking up from his monitor, says
    >> "That pager was returned after they dropped it in a loaded toilet." I
    >> never handled a pager he didn't handle first after that....(c;
    >>

    >
    >
    >This just begs the question, "what was he doing with it on his desk?"
    >

    Parts, man, it's always the parts!

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