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Batteries

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by Norm, Nov 19, 2003.

  1. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 14:22:59 -0500, Mark Allread
    <mallread@flatsurface.com> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >>>> Please explain how overcharging a battery can ruin the phone.


    >>> It leaks.


    >> You use alkaline batteries in your phone?


    >Oh, you mean Li batteries. They *explode*, and can be expected to take
    >the phone with them.


    Refer to the original question. How would a defective battery lead to
    overcharging? The charging circuitry is part of the phone or part of
    the charger, not part of the battery. How could a defective battery
    cause the charger to overcharge it?



    › See More: Batteries
  2. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On 23 Nov 2003 00:02:20 GMT, hoch@exemplary.invalid (CharlesH) posted
    in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >LiIon batteries can explode in flames if the built-in overcharging
    >protection fails. That tends to ruin the phone :). Even trickle charging
    >of a LiIon battery is a MAJOR NO-NO. Which is why there is circuitry in
    >the battery to prevent overcharging, not depending on a properly functioning
    >charger, and you can just leave your phone on the charger as long as you
    >want. A couple of years ago, there was a problem with some laptops catching
    >on fire due to this problem.


    The overcharge protection in the battery isn't there instead of
    overcharging circuitry in the charger. It's there in case of
    catastrophic failure of the charger.
  3. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 02:16:44 GMT, Justin <nospam@jbell.dns2go.com>
    posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >Al Klein wrote on [Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:09:36 GMT]:
    >> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 03:59:54 GMT, Scott Stephenson
    >><scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:


    >>>> Please explain how overcharging a battery can ruin the phone.


    >>>It leaks.


    >> You use alkaline batteries in your phone?


    >NiCads also leak


    You use NiCds in your phone?
  4. Justin

    Justin Guest

    Al Klein wrote on [Sun, 23 Nov 2003 07:41:18 GMT]:
    > On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 02:16:44 GMT, Justin <nospam@jbell.dns2go.com>
    > posted in alt.cellular.verizon:
    >
    >>Al Klein wrote on [Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:09:36 GMT]:
    >>> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 03:59:54 GMT, Scott Stephenson
    >>><scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >
    >>>>> Please explain how overcharging a battery can ruin the phone.

    >
    >>>>It leaks.

    >
    >>> You use alkaline batteries in your phone?

    >
    >>NiCads also leak

    >
    > You use NiCds in your phone?


    I do have a phone that uses NiCads, yes.
  5. Peter Pan

    Peter Pan Guest

    "Justin" <nospam@jbell.dns2go.com> wrote in message
    news:slrnbs064c.fk5.nospam@jbell.dns2go.com...
    > Al Klein wrote on [Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:09:36 GMT]:
    > > On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 03:59:54 GMT, Scott Stephenson
    > ><scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:
    > >
    > >>Al Klein wrote:

    > >
    > >>> On 20 Nov 2003 10:47:44 GMT, dslguru@aol.com (DSL GURU) posted in
    > >>> alt.cellular.verizon:

    > >
    > >>>>A no-name battery may be cheaper, but if it over charges and ruins

    your
    > >>>>phone

    > >
    > >>> Please explain how overcharging a battery can ruin the phone.

    > >
    > >>It leaks.

    > >
    > > You use alkaline batteries in your phone?

    >
    > NiCads also leak


    Hate to tell you, but NiCads haven't been used for years due to
    leakage/memory effect/charging probs, they use Lithium batteries nowadays
    (and have been for years), sometimes the ones you get for discount prices
    are the older ones that people want to get rid of but aren't sold new
    anymore (like the nicads) by the companies, or they are made cheaply with
    outdated supplies equipment etc. However the biggest problem I have seen is
    that older style (nicads in particular) suffer from "memory effect" (ie if
    you don't discharge them fully before recharging them they remember not to
    discharge fully in the future). Ever see people that won't recharge their
    phone until it is dead because they think they have the old Nicads in em and
    may suffer from memory effect?

  6. >
    > Hate to tell you, but NiCads haven't been used for years due to
    > leakage/memory effect/charging probs, they use Lithium batteries nowadays
    > (and have been for years),


    NiMH (nickel metal hydride) up until very recently has been the most used
    OEM battery they originally install.
  7. Peter Pan

    Peter Pan Guest

    "Jason Cothran" <nospam@thanks.friend> wrote in message
    news:HF%vb.27654$ow5.17889@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
    >
    > >
    > > Hate to tell you, but NiCads haven't been used for years due to
    > > leakage/memory effect/charging probs, they use Lithium batteries

    nowadays
    > > (and have been for years),

    >
    > NiMH (nickel metal hydride) up until very recently has been the most used
    > OEM battery they originally install.
    >
    >


    You may want to look at what they are for. Sure Nicads are out there for
    flashlights, toy cars, etc basically a thru d sizes, but they are
    ****NOT**** being used as oem batteries in things like notebook computers
    and cell phones (and this IS a cell phone related newsgroup!) . As a matter
    of fact you won't usually find them for anything that is in constant contact
    with your body. As an example of body contact, ever hear of one approved for
    use in say a hearing aid or pacemaker?
  8. Mark Allread

    Mark Allread Guest

    On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 07:39:07 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.org> wrote:

    > On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 14:22:59 -0500, Mark Allread
    > <mallread@flatsurface.com> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:
    >
    >>>>> Please explain how overcharging a battery can ruin the phone.

    >
    >>>> It leaks.

    >
    >>> You use alkaline batteries in your phone?

    >
    >> Oh, you mean Li batteries. They *explode*, and can be expected to take
    >> the phone with them.

    >
    > Refer to the original question. How would a defective battery lead to
    > overcharging? The charging circuitry is part of the phone or part of
    > the charger, not part of the battery. How could a defective battery
    > cause the charger to overcharge it?


    You are making invalid assumptions. Examine, for instance, a Nokia BLC-2
    LiIon battery pack. Observe that it has more than two contacts. The battery
    is an active participant in the charging cycle.

    --
    Mark
  9. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 03:50:17 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.org> wrote:

    >On 20 Nov 2003 10:47:44 GMT, dslguru@aol.com (DSL GURU) posted in
    >alt.cellular.verizon:
    >
    >>A no-name battery may be cheaper, but if it over charges and ruins your phone

    >
    >Please explain how overcharging a battery can ruin the phone.


    FUD.....FUD tears up lots of electronics by osmosis....(c;

    Larry W4CSC

    NNNN
  10. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On 22 Nov 2003 05:54:27 -0800, davidlind@my-deja.com (David L) wrote:

    >
    >Thanks for the reference pages.
    >I'm not arguing one must use OEM products, just that aftermarket
    >batteries are inferior to OEM.


    FUD. OEM products are just relabeled garbage from the lowest bidder.
    Nokia goes to China and puts out an open bid for 4M Li-Ion batteries
    to the Chinese slavers. The slavers hand in their bids and the lowest
    bidder who hasn't screwed Nokia in the past wins the bid.

    Someone post the address of the Nokia OEM battery plant Nokia owns.

    There isn't any. Nokia buys lowest bidder parts just like everyone
    else in the business....any business. It's all about PROFIT, which is
    not a dirty word.

    Anyone who believes a cellphone manufacturer buys the best products
    made to go in their phones is kidding themselves. God, look at the
    cheap piece of plastic crap with the cheap antenna.......past the
    glitzy addon parts.


    Larry W4CSC

    NNNN
  11. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 14:37:00 GMT, LITed <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

    Larry your argument is quite impressive but I would like to add one
    >note. Some aftermarket products are garbage. When purchasing an
    >aftermarket product I might want to check out the quality against the
    >OEM first.


    Oh, no argument here. There's lots of pure garbage on the market for
    any product, not just cellphones. But, this FUD about OEM products
    being just the best is simply not true. There is tremendous pressure
    to use the cheapest parts they can get away with.
    >
    >In certain cases the OEM might be a better choice. There are times
    >when "you get what you pay for."
    >LITed


    Nope. Paying double has no bearing on quality. Visit any West Marine
    boat store and take a close look. Plenty of crap there, too, at
    amazing prices.


    Larry W4CSC

    NNNN
  12. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:16:32 -0500, Mark Allread
    <mallread@flatsurface.com> wrote:

    >M-M also does NOT require a manufacture to give free, branded products
    >"forever," but only during the warranty period. The Magnuson-Moss warranty
    >act was written to cover consumables, such as car air and oil filters,
    >oil, gasoline, etc. Manufacturer's can and do set specifications - "API
    >certified oil, batteries with overcurrent protection, etc."


    Cellphone batteries ARE consumables.
    >
    >Nokia, since they ship a battery with every phone, can exclude coverage
    >caused by aftermarket batteries because Nokia does, in fact, provide Nokia
    >batteries "free" under the warranty terms. M-M does not compel them to
    >provide
    >you spare batteries, just as Chevy doesn't warrant a Ford engine swapped
    >into a Chevy car, and isn't compelled to give you a spare engine for free,
    >either. To suggest that M-M covers such things is laughable, and merely
    >demonstrates ignorance.
    >

    Nope...doesn't wash. Nokia cannot base its warranty on using NAME
    BRANDED parts unless they provide them free for the life of the
    product, no more than Mercury outboards can void the warranty because
    you used an aftermarket water pump or Exxon TC-W3 lube oil.

    Yamaha wasn't laughing at my attorney.....(c;


    Larry W4CSC

    NNNN
  13. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:09:59 -0500, Mark Allread
    <mallread@flatsurface.com> wrote:

    >
    >Sure. Your comment indicates that you a pathetic loser, unable to read.
    >

    Oh, oh. Now the personal attacks start.....same as always.

    Larry W4CSC

    NNNN
  14. Mark Allread

    Mark Allread Guest

    On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:09:06 GMT, Larry W4CSC <nospam@home.com> wrote:

    > On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:16:32 -0500, Mark Allread
    > <mallread@flatsurface.com> wrote:
    >
    >> M-M also does NOT require a manufacture to give free, branded products
    >> "forever," but only during the warranty period. The Magnuson-Moss
    >> warranty
    >> act was written to cover consumables, such as car air and oil filters,
    >> oil, gasoline, etc. Manufacturer's can and do set specifications - "API
    >> certified oil, batteries with overcurrent protection, etc."

    >
    > Cellphone batteries ARE consumables.


    Nope. You can recharge them, and remarkably enough, you can continue to
    do so throughout the entire warranty period. And guess what? If they
    fail, and won't take a charge during the warranty period, the manufacturer
    will cover them under warranty.

    >> Nokia, since they ship a battery with every phone, can exclude coverage
    >> caused by aftermarket batteries because Nokia does, in fact, provide
    >> Nokia
    >> batteries "free" under the warranty terms. M-M does not compel them to
    >> provide
    >> you spare batteries, just as Chevy doesn't warrant a Ford engine swapped
    >> into a Chevy car, and isn't compelled to give you a spare engine for
    >> free,
    >> either. To suggest that M-M covers such things is laughable, and merely
    >> demonstrates ignorance.
    >>

    > Nope...doesn't wash. Nokia cannot base its warranty on using NAME
    > BRANDED parts unless they provide them free for the life of the
    > product,


    You obviously can't read English. The M-M Warranty Act specifically says:

    "No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied
    warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such
    product, any article or service (other than article or service provided
    without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified
    by brand, trade, or corporate name"

    1) Nokia provides a battery with each phone, so it is an "article provided
    without charge." Any warrantor can require that warranty repairs be made
    by
    an authorized repair facility using branded parts. Nothing requires Nokia
    to provide spare batteries, just as nothing requries GM provide a spare
    engine for a car.

    2) There is no mention whatsoever of providing parts "for the life of the
    product." You simply invented that in order to be deliberately misleading.
    "Free parts" ends when the warranty does.

    --
    Mark
  15. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 07:25:21 -0500, Mark Allread
    <mallread@flatsurface.com> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >You are making invalid assumptions. Examine, for instance, a Nokia BLC-2
    >LiIon battery pack. Observe that it has more than two contacts. The battery
    >is an active participant in the charging cycle.


    And a properly designed charger won't attempt to charge a battery that
    doesn't look right. Try charging a "funny" battery in, say, a 7868.
    It'll tell you that there's something wrong with the battery, but it
    won't charge it.

    If Nokia wants to save a few cents, that's their problem, not
    something inherently wrong with the technology.

    A properly designed charging system won't overcharge a LiIon battery,
    so the original point, that overcharging the battery will damage the
    phone, is only true if the phone is already defective (by design).

    Assumptions? I'm only "assuming" proper (and easily off-the-shelf for
    a long time now) design.
  16. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 13:56:56 GMT, nospam@home.com (Larry W4CSC) posted
    in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 03:50:17 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.org> wrote:
    >
    >>On 20 Nov 2003 10:47:44 GMT, dslguru@aol.com (DSL GURU) posted in
    >>alt.cellular.verizon:
    >>
    >>>A no-name battery may be cheaper, but if it over charges and ruins your phone

    >>
    >>Please explain how overcharging a battery can ruin the phone.

    >
    >FUD.....FUD tears up lots of electronics by osmosis....(c;


    Yeah, I just hate non-waterproof-at-100-feet phones. I don't want to
    have to take my phone off while diving.
  17. David L

    David L Guest

    nospam@home.com (Larry W4CSC) wrote in message news:<3fc0bcfe.615332@news.knology.net>...
    > On 22 Nov 2003 05:54:27 -0800, davidlind@my-deja.com (David L) wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >Thanks for the reference pages.
    > >I'm not arguing one must use OEM products, just that aftermarket
    > >batteries are inferior to OEM.

    >
    > FUD. OEM products are just relabeled garbage from the lowest bidder.
    > Nokia goes to China and puts out an open bid for 4M Li-Ion batteries
    > to the Chinese slavers. The slavers hand in their bids and the lowest
    > bidder who hasn't screwed Nokia in the past wins the bid.
    >


    (Typing away on a Chinese slave made keybord:) That's why I bought an
    Audiovox cell phone made in Japan and the LI battery is made in Japan
    as well, and so are the OEM replacements (bought at discount). The
    Japanese have some of the finest manufacturing plants in the world.
    They make Yamaha engines, Toyota cars (I have owned both) and get paid
    very well doing it. They also cost more and do work better.

    OK, it's probable that many Chinese batteries are made in the same
    plant and will work despite the labeling and distribution channels,
    but one should be aware there are clearly different grades of
    batteries and not assume they are all the same!

    -
    David
  18. "Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:bpq2vu$1pth9q$1@ID-190045.news.uni-berlin.de...
    >
    > "Jason Cothran" <nospam@thanks.friend> wrote in message
    > news:HF%vb.27654$ow5.17889@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Hate to tell you, but NiCads haven't been used for years due to
    > > > leakage/memory effect/charging probs, they use Lithium batteries

    > nowadays
    > > > (and have been for years),

    > >
    > > NiMH (nickel metal hydride) up until very recently has been the most

    used
    > > OEM battery they originally install.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > You may want to look at what they are for. Sure Nicads are out there for
    > flashlights, toy cars, etc basically a thru d sizes, but they are
    > ****NOT**** being used as oem batteries in things like notebook computers
    > and cell phones (and this IS a cell phone related newsgroup!) . As a

    matter
    > of fact you won't usually find them for anything that is in constant

    contact
    > with your body. As an example of body contact, ever hear of one approved

    for
    > use in say a hearing aid or pacemaker?
    >
    >


    You apparently misread my post. I was speaking of NiMH, not NiCd, and yes
    everything I said was true. As of very very recently, almost all are coming
    with lithium ion, but NiMH has been much more prevelant from the OEM than
    lithium ion.
  19. Peter Pan

    Peter Pan Guest

    "Jason Cothran" <nospam@thanks.friend> wrote in message
    news:eek:mewb.11936$6c3.4952@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
    >
    > "Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:bpq2vu$1pth9q$1@ID-190045.news.uni-berlin.de...
    > >
    > > "Jason Cothran" <nospam@thanks.friend> wrote in message
    > > news:HF%vb.27654$ow5.17889@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Hate to tell you, but NiCads haven't been used for years due to
    > > > > leakage/memory effect/charging probs, they use Lithium batteries

    > > nowadays
    > > > > (and have been for years),
    > > >
    > > > NiMH (nickel metal hydride) up until very recently has been the most

    > used
    > > > OEM battery they originally install.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > > You may want to look at what they are for. Sure Nicads are out there for
    > > flashlights, toy cars, etc basically a thru d sizes, but they are
    > > ****NOT**** being used as oem batteries in things like notebook

    computers
    > > and cell phones (and this IS a cell phone related newsgroup!) . As a

    > matter
    > > of fact you won't usually find them for anything that is in constant

    > contact
    > > with your body. As an example of body contact, ever hear of one approved

    > for
    > > use in say a hearing aid or pacemaker?
    > >
    > >

    >
    > You apparently misread my post. I was speaking of NiMH, not NiCd, and yes
    > everything I said was true. As of very very recently, almost all are

    coming
    > with lithium ion, but NiMH has been much more prevelant from the OEM than
    > lithium ion.
    >
    >


    Sorry, wasn't explicit enough, I went from oldest to newest and skipped the
    middle, they used to use Nicads, then went to NIMH and now have lithium ion.
    But the point is, they do NOT use Nicads.
  20. "Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:bpsmm9$1qkt51$1@ID-190045.news.uni-berlin.de...
    >
    > "Jason Cothran" <nospam@thanks.friend> wrote in message
    > news:eek:mewb.11936$6c3.4952@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
    > >
    > > "Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > > news:bpq2vu$1pth9q$1@ID-190045.news.uni-berlin.de...
    > > >
    > > > "Jason Cothran" <nospam@thanks.friend> wrote in message
    > > > news:HF%vb.27654$ow5.17889@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
    > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Hate to tell you, but NiCads haven't been used for years due to
    > > > > > leakage/memory effect/charging probs, they use Lithium batteries
    > > > nowadays
    > > > > > (and have been for years),
    > > > >
    > > > > NiMH (nickel metal hydride) up until very recently has been the most

    > > used
    > > > > OEM battery they originally install.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > You may want to look at what they are for. Sure Nicads are out there

    for
    > > > flashlights, toy cars, etc basically a thru d sizes, but they are
    > > > ****NOT**** being used as oem batteries in things like notebook

    > computers
    > > > and cell phones (and this IS a cell phone related newsgroup!) . As a

    > > matter
    > > > of fact you won't usually find them for anything that is in constant

    > > contact
    > > > with your body. As an example of body contact, ever hear of one

    approved
    > > for
    > > > use in say a hearing aid or pacemaker?
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > > You apparently misread my post. I was speaking of NiMH, not NiCd, and

    yes
    > > everything I said was true. As of very very recently, almost all are

    > coming
    > > with lithium ion, but NiMH has been much more prevelant from the OEM

    than
    > > lithium ion.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Sorry, wasn't explicit enough, I went from oldest to newest and skipped

    the
    > middle, they used to use Nicads, then went to NIMH and now have lithium

    ion.
    > But the point is, they do NOT use Nicads.
    >
    >


    Agree wholeheartedly there friend <wink>

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