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cell phone use in hospitals

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by maryann, Nov 18, 2003.

  1. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 05:07:43 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:

    >"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:euplo0d4ljg882tp30cau6ccfm4scti3ui@4ax.com...
    >> And, since the majority of netizens, and the nettiquete rules, call
    >> for bottom posting ...
    >>
    >> This isn't a new discussion. A few newbies always claim to prefer top
    >> posting, and it's been this way for a few decades. (In this context I
    >> consider anyone who found usenet after the internet came into
    >> existence to be a newbie.)

    >
    >I presume you're aware that the news client in Outlook Express


    Outlook express is a mail client. That they include the ability to
    (badly mis-) handle NNTP doesn't make anything in it a "news client".

    >(which comes installed on 95% of all personal computers) defaults to
    >top posting.


    It defaults to having the cursor at the top when you're ready to type
    your response. Almost all newsreaders do this. Almost all people
    using them do NOT top post.

    > Microsoft is not exactly a lightweight when it comes to
    >computing standards.


    Microsoft is the largest heavyweight when it comes to violating
    standards. (Vendors don't set standards - standards committees and
    RFCs do.)



    › See More: cell phone use in hospitals
  2. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 04:09:30 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
    <dannyb@panix.com> said in alt.cellular:

    >And then there's my friend who had an old IMTS radio telephone (hi,
    >Steve). Whenever he keyed up, all the lights for a half mile around would
    >either glow or start pulsing.


    From a plain old 450 MHz 30 watt transmitter? (I used to install
    those - Marked Tree, Arkansas sound familiar to any old-timers here?)

    >Ok, that's not true.


    Oh! Ok. :)
  3. Tee Box

    Tee Box Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    So what committee set the standard that says you can't top post like I am.

    "Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message
    news:8fppo0di9jbave7pe1q1mq3bg3mkgo8c0r@4ax.com...
    > On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 05:07:43 GMT, "John Richards"
    > <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:
    >
    >>"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message
    >>news:euplo0d4ljg882tp30cau6ccfm4scti3ui@4ax.com...
    >>> And, since the majority of netizens, and the nettiquete rules, call
    >>> for bottom posting ...
    >>>
    >>> This isn't a new discussion. A few newbies always claim to prefer top
    >>> posting, and it's been this way for a few decades. (In this context I
    >>> consider anyone who found usenet after the internet came into
    >>> existence to be a newbie.)

    >>
    >>I presume you're aware that the news client in Outlook Express

    >
    > Outlook express is a mail client. That they include the ability to
    > (badly mis-) handle NNTP doesn't make anything in it a "news client".
    >
    >>(which comes installed on 95% of all personal computers) defaults to
    >>top posting.

    >
    > It defaults to having the cursor at the top when you're ready to type
    > your response. Almost all newsreaders do this. Almost all people
    > using them do NOT top post.
    >
    >> Microsoft is not exactly a lightweight when it comes to
    >>computing standards.

    >
    > Microsoft is the largest heavyweight when it comes to violating
    > standards. (Vendors don't set standards - standards committees and
    > RFCs do.)
  4. W4PHM

    W4PHM Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    Well I guess I started all of this by starting a post about
    cell phone RF interference in hospitals and began by
    saying, "sorry to top post but I don't want to dig through
    all of this to make a small point"

    Well, I am no newbie, I was on the usenet when win3.0
    came out and still use win98 build II because I love DOS
    and hate to have to have windows runnning in the backround
    whenever I want to do something in DOS, so I am far from
    a newbie...... I am just not a purist to archaine rules.

    Thanks,


    --
    Patrick H. Mason M.S. OHST, EMT-I
    Certified Safety Engineer
    AHA BCLS Instructor, ACLS Instructor Candidate


    "Tee Box" <chilidip@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:eek:aOdnW2uU-BpnRDcRVn-1w@giganews.com...
    > So what committee set the standard that says you can't top post like I am.
    >
    > "Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message
    > news:8fppo0di9jbave7pe1q1mq3bg3mkgo8c0r@4ax.com...
    > > On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 05:07:43 GMT, "John Richards"
    > > <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:
    > >
    > >>"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message
    > >>news:euplo0d4ljg882tp30cau6ccfm4scti3ui@4ax.com...
    > >>> And, since the majority of netizens, and the nettiquete rules, call
    > >>> for bottom posting ...
    > >>>
    > >>> This isn't a new discussion. A few newbies always claim to prefer top
    > >>> posting, and it's been this way for a few decades. (In this context I
    > >>> consider anyone who found usenet after the internet came into
    > >>> existence to be a newbie.)
    > >>
    > >>I presume you're aware that the news client in Outlook Express

    > >
    > > Outlook express is a mail client. That they include the ability to
    > > (badly mis-) handle NNTP doesn't make anything in it a "news client".
    > >
    > >>(which comes installed on 95% of all personal computers) defaults to
    > >>top posting.

    > >
    > > It defaults to having the cursor at the top when you're ready to type
    > > your response. Almost all newsreaders do this. Almost all people
    > > using them do NOT top post.
    > >
    > >> Microsoft is not exactly a lightweight when it comes to
    > >>computing standards.

    > >
    > > Microsoft is the largest heavyweight when it comes to violating
    > > standards. (Vendors don't set standards - standards committees and
    > > RFCs do.)

    >
    >
  5. Notan

    Notan Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    Tee Box wrote:
    >
    > So what committee set the standard that says you can't top post like I am.


    Have a look at http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html.

    Notan
  6. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "John Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote in message
    news:z_Yid.20364$5b1.5555@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
    > "Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message

    news:euplo0d4ljg882tp30cau6ccfm4scti3ui@4ax.com...
    > > And, since the majority of netizens, and the nettiquete rules, call
    > > for bottom posting ...
    > >
    > > This isn't a new discussion. A few newbies always claim to prefer top
    > > posting, and it's been this way for a few decades. (In this context I
    > > consider anyone who found usenet after the internet came into
    > > existence to be a newbie.)

    >
    > I presume you're aware that the news client in Outlook Express
    > (which comes installed on 95% of all personal computers) defaults to
    > top posting. Microsoft is not exactly a lightweight when it comes to
    > computing standards.



    Great- yet another top-posting thread. The amusing thing about this last
    post- the author points to Microsoft and computing standards (which he
    sounds like he would follow). But when presented with the actual standard
    for Usenet, the philosophy becomes, "I'm too good (or too lazy) to do that."
    Shouldn't have tried to justify your top-posting- it makes you look a little
    less intelligent.

    BTW- care to share any instance where Micro$oft instituted standards for
    Internet etiquette?
  7. Tee Box

    Tee Box Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    The following is a direct quote from the first paragraph of your reference
    which is a bit dated. So I ask again, what set the standard??

    "Status of This Memo

    This memo provides information for the Internet community. This memo
    does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of
    this memo is unlimited."


    "Notan" <notan@ddress.com> wrote in message
    news:418D2350.3F3A3AEB@ddress.com...
    > Tee Box wrote:
    >>
    >> So what committee set the standard that says you can't top post like I
    >> am.

    >
    > Have a look at http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html.
    >
    > Notan
  8. Brian Gordon

    Brian Gordon Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    In article <mUAid.268251$as2.238343@bignews3.bellsouth.net>,
    Chris Cowles <NoSpam@For.me> wrote:
    >But, in following a thread, one needs only read the top on each subsequent
    >message, rather than scrolling to the bottom of a huge mess. Assuming the
    >writer edits the original, I prefer top posts.
    >
    >"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message
    >news:04pgo0l6luh07pb0td9ggai1grhe4k0rj0@4ax.com...
    >
    >>>On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:04:33 -0800, "Richard Ness"
    >>>There's nothing inherintly wrong with it

    >>
    >> Other than the fact that one has to read from the bottom up.

    >
    >



    A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting.
    Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)?
    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read
    text.
    Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

    --
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    | Brian Gordon -->briang@panix.com<-- brian.gordon at cox dot net |
    + Bass: "Spirit of Phoenix" SPEBSQSA Chorus (and Gotcha! dad) +
    -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
  9. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    briang@panix.com (Brian Gordon) wrote:

    >A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read
    >text.
    >Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?


    You just answered your own question. Top or bottom would work equally well
    to maintain the order of responses, but when the two are mixed, all order is
    lost. Therefore, a standard had to be agreed upon. It was agreed upon over
    20 years ago, and like it or not, that standard is bottom posting.
  10. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:-YKdnUJL9IX9uxDcRVn-ig@adelphia.com...
    >
    > "John Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote in message
    > news:z_Yid.20364$5b1.5555@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
    >> I presume you're aware that the news client in Outlook Express
    >> (which comes installed on 95% of all personal computers) defaults to
    >> top posting. Microsoft is not exactly a lightweight when it comes to
    >> computing standards.

    >
    >
    > Great- yet another top-posting thread. The amusing thing about this last
    > post- the author points to Microsoft and computing standards (which he
    > sounds like he would follow). But when presented with the actual standard
    > for Usenet, the philosophy becomes, "I'm too good (or too lazy) to do that."
    > Shouldn't have tried to justify your top-posting- it makes you look a little
    > less intelligent.


    Standards are not set in concrete. Conventions evolve over time.
    Take a look at the Microsoft newsgroups on the NNTP server msnews.microsoft.com.
    More than 90% of the posts there are top-posted, and it works out
    quite well. The posters are typically system administrators and long-time
    computer experts, who, (like myself) were online long before there was a
    World-Wide Web. There is no need to question the intelligence of those
    who prefer to top-post.

    --
    John Richards
  11. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:25:59 -0800, Joseph <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com>
    said in alt.cellular:

    >On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:49:55 GMT, "W4PHM" <W4PHM@ARRL.NET> wrote:
    >
    >>I am just not a purist to archaine rules.

    >
    >And you probably haven't a clue as to why those rules were put there
    >in the first place as well. Do you also think that Microsoft invented
    >the internet as well?


    Not unless Al Gore was working for them when he invented it.
  12. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 01:18:35 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:

    >Take a look at the Microsoft newsgroups on the NNTP server msnews.microsoft.com.
    >More than 90% of the posts there are top-posted


    Good argument - against top posting.
  13. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:rd4ro0h37rukbe1e6i9r9ivreui8lhnli1@4ax.com...
    > On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 01:18:35 GMT, "John Richards"
    > <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:
    >
    >>Take a look at the Microsoft newsgroups on the NNTP server msnews.microsoft.com.
    >>More than 90% of the posts there are top-posted

    >
    > Good argument - against top posting.


    Guess you missed reading the part where I said it was working out
    well for them, and that they're not clueless newbies.

    --
    John Richards
  14. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "John Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote in message
    news:LJejd.3058$0A3.2323@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...

    >
    > Standards are not set in concrete.


    True, but when presented with the standards that well over half post here
    with, you took the attitude of ,"f*** them all, I'll do what I want." Very
    poor etiquette and it shows a lack of consideration.

    >Conventions evolve over time.


    No they don't. We are a lazy society and tend to leave well enough alone.

    > Take a look at the Microsoft newsgroups on the NNTP server

    msnews.microsoft.com.
    > More than 90% of the posts there are top-posted, and it works out
    > quite well. The posters are typically system administrators and long-time
    > computer experts, who, (like myself) were online long before there was a
    > World-Wide Web.


    I would tend to describe them a little differently- they are responsible for
    more system and network screwups in a day than the newbies because of their
    self-inflated egos and illusions of grandeur. You'll also have to explain
    to me one other part- how did these twenty and thirty-something system
    admins get on a computer for the WWW?

    >There is no need to question the intelligence of those
    > who prefer to top-post.


    Reread my post- I didn't question anyone's intelligence. I merely pointed
    out that your example tended to make you look less intelligent. Your latest
    argument had done nothing to change that.


    >
    > --
    > John Richards
  15. Chris Cowles

    Chris Cowles Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    From that link:

    "...
    Status of This Memo

    This memo provides information for the Internet community. This memo
    does not specify an Internet standard of any kind...."

    "Notan" <notan@ddress.com> wrote in message
    news:418D2350.3F3A3AEB@ddress.com...
    > Tee Box wrote:
    >>
    >> So what committee set the standard that says you can't top post like I
    >> am.

    >
    > Have a look at http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html.
    >
    > Notan
  16. Mike Riddle

    Mike Riddle Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    Chris Cowles wrote:

    > From that link:
    >
    > "...
    > Status of This Memo
    >
    > This memo provides information for the Internet community. This memo
    > does not specify an Internet standard of any kind...."
    >
    > "Notan" <notan@ddress.com> wrote in message
    > news:418D2350.3F3A3AEB@ddress.com...
    >
    >>Tee Box wrote:
    >>
    >>>So what committee set the standard that says you can't top post like I
    >>>am.

    >>
    >>Have a look at http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html.
    >>
    >>Notan


    It is far from unusual to have an RFC make that comment, and it is
    equally far from unusal for the internet community to ignore the RFC.

    More to the point, the rationale is precisely on point: trim the
    quotes and THEN say your piece. Context is thereby provided which can
    be sorely lacking otherwise, particularly in newsgroups which get
    hundreds of posts daily.
  17. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 06:33:53 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:

    >"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:rd4ro0h37rukbe1e6i9r9ivreui8lhnli1@4ax.com...
    >> On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 01:18:35 GMT, "John Richards"
    >> <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:


    >>>Take a look at the Microsoft newsgroups on the NNTP server msnews.microsoft.com.
    >>>More than 90% of the posts there are top-posted


    >> Good argument - against top posting.


    >Guess you missed reading the part where I said it was working out
    >well for them, and that they're not clueless newbies.


    I saw it. If MS "sets a standard", that's a good reason to think that
    there's at least one flaw with the "standard". Anything they set.
    Just look at their "flavor of the week" OSs. Windows ME, anyone?
  18. David S

    David S Guest

    On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:04:33 -0800, "Richard Ness"
    <richardno@damnspam.nessnet.com> chose to add this to the great equation of
    life, the universe, and everything:

    >"(Pete Cresswell)" <x@y.z> wrote in message news:no9go0llund9udgf30sujt35ilim1ngql2@4ax.com...
    >> RE/
    >>>Top posting again y'all.

    >>
    >> Just for the record... I *prefer* to read top posts... maybe I'm the only one,
    >> but still...


    >I concur..... and have argued for it more than once.
    >Does anyone, normal anyway, post replies to e-mail on the bottom?
    >I actually have had people argue that they do. I doubt their credibility.
    >And, they also tend to be quite vocal (and rabid).
    >
    >I say to them.... get a life. I'm gonna top post, so deal with it.


    I (usually) bottom post, and even rearrange top posts when I reply to them
    (cleaning up extraneous crap while I'm at it), but I won't chastise or
    argue with anybody about it in any group other than alt.fan.dave_barry
    (where the only person who is allowed to top-post is The D*ve's personal
    assistant, judi smith).

    As explanation, not argument, I will say that bottom-posting gives the
    reader a chance to review that which is being replied to, before getting to
    the actual reply. Sometimes this is critical to what I am saying.

    I freely admit that when you are blasting through a bunch of
    several-day-old posts, as I am doing right now, this is not as important.
    Otoh, when you are reading a reply to something that was written several
    days ago, as you are now, the reminder is certainly helpful. It is even
    more helpful when someone replies to a post that is a month or more old,
    which I have seen happen in this group (alt.cellular.verizon is where I'm
    reading this thread).

    Bottom-posting also works better when inserting replies to individual parts
    of the previous post(s).

    --
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "I could prove God statistically." - George Gallup
  19. David S

    David S Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:44:10 -0500, "Chris Cowles" <NoSpam@For.me> chose to
    add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:

    >But, in following a thread, one needs only read the top on each subsequent
    >message, rather than scrolling to the bottom of a huge mess. Assuming the
    >writer edits the original, I prefer top posts.
    >
    >"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message
    >news:04pgo0l6luh07pb0td9ggai1grhe4k0rj0@4ax.com...
    >
    >>>On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:04:33 -0800, "Richard Ness"
    >>>There's nothing inherintly wrong with it

    >>
    >> Other than the fact that one has to read from the bottom up.


    But since this thread had jumped around so much and grown so many different
    branches, I had to go to the bottom to see what you were replying to before
    your post made sense to me.

    P.S. I deliberately did not move what you said to the bottom of the quoted
    text as an example of why top- and bottom-posting are incompatible.

    P.P.S. To whoever it is who keeps mentioning fitting on one screen, not all
    screens are the same and the examples you are citing of fitting on one
    screen don't in my reader.

    --
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "each goat bladder has been accepted as an Olympic sport for the 2008
    Games, along with ballroom dancing, lawn darts, bathroom remodeling and Go
    Fish." - Dave Barry
  20. David S

    David S Guest

    On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:10:01 -0700, DevilsPGD <devilspgd@crazyhat.net>
    chose to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and
    everything:

    > We've been trying to teach some folks to read since
    >kindergarten and they apparently still can't caught on to the
    >fundamentals.


    Nor to the fundamentals of staying in one tense while writing.

    --
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "I'd rather not talk about money. It's kind of gross." - Barbra Streisand,
    asked what she was paid for 'The Mirror Has Two Faces'

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