1. Welcome to Verizon Forums - the unofficial Verizon community! Have a question about Verizon? Click HERE to get started.
  2. Expecting Cell Phone Forums? We recently moved Verizon specific content to VerizonForums.com. If you previously had an account on CPF, it has been transferred!

cell phone use in hospitals

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by maryann, Nov 18, 2003.

  1. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "John Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:

    >If you're trying to say that Microsoft has no input in setting computer
    >standards, I think you're wrong. They are represented on a lot of standard
    >making committees.


    More to the point, MS is notorious for ignoring standards and forcing their
    own standards on the world through their products. OE is a shining example.
    By default it posts in HTML, which is almost a high crime on usenet. By
    default it also top posts, which *until* OE came along was a rare thing to
    find on usenet.

    I would add that bottom posting isn't a "standard" in any way, shape or
    form. It's merely an accepted convention and good netiquette. Top posting
    is, quite simply, rude.

    Hmmm... speaking of netiquette and posting style, might I suggest you trim
    your quotes? You quoted a mish-mash of at least 4 different messages all
    munged together, and that's *another* reason people top post. They get
    tired of wading through endless, repetitive, unintelligible quotes.
    Trimming quotes is another accepted convention and good netiquette that goes
    hand in hand with bottom posting. Quote only that which you need to
    maintain context, not the whole bloody thing.

    >And 90% of the posters in Microsoft newsgroups top-post, what does that
    >tell you?


    They use OE. And if you think the majority of posters in MS newsgroups are
    net gurus, you're badly mistaken. MS newsgroups are also a small fraction
    of usenet. By no means do they set any sort of standards.

    Oh, and speaking of conventions and standards and netiquette, the
    cross-posting on this thread is way off the charts too. Cell phones and
    alt.med.ems have WHAT to do with posting styles? It was a troll, which has
    turned into an endless debate that ought to be somewhere else.



    › See More: cell phone use in hospitals
  2. IMHO

    IMHO Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "Joseph" <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:rq95p0dsbj383hg7ukm670irc7ug2ovtni@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 03:32:44 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote:
    >
    >>On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:03:29 GMT, "dr.wireMORE"
    >><dr.wireMORE@VZW-MidWESTma.com> said in alt.cellular:
    >>
    >>>While I might miss out on some information, I use a pre-view screen.
    >>>Pre-view appears to support top-posting, the most new/relevant
    >>>information
    >>>on top. But if someone would contact the developers and have the preview
    >>>window start at the "bottom" or last item, then I'd add my comments at
    >>>the
    >>>bottom.

    >>
    >>Could you name some news clients that have "preview screens"?

    >
    > What's your definition of new? As in never seen before or established
    > clients that have brought out new versions? Eudora has a preview pane
    > if you should want it though I'm not sure why anyone would as that's a
    > prime way to be exposed to various viruses and worms.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >

    There was a "S" on the end of new.
    As in news group, news reader, news client, neswpaper, etc.
  3. dr.wireMORE

    dr.wireMORE Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    I use outlook express (as others have noted) with the preview screen. I set
    the view to = current view = unread messages, and I have the preview screen
    open. It is very easy to navigate thru subject matter with just one hand on
    the keyboard, using the up/down left/right arrows. I get the most content
    in the shortest amount of time.

    Sadly, because of this method, I might miss some "good" information at the
    bottom of the post. Top Posting helps me, but to each their own. dr.
    wiremore

    "IMHO" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
    news:eqzkd.50761$EZ.901@okepread07...
    >

    <snip>
    >>>Could you name some news clients that have "preview screens"?

    <snip>
  4. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:51:38 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:

    >"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:1p23p05592ilsjra0sqbqa3vc930qkm5od@4ax.com...
    >> On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:03:29 GMT, "dr.wireMORE"
    >> <dr.wireMORE@VZW-MidWESTma.com> said in alt.cellular:
    >>
    >>>While I might miss out on some information, I use a pre-view screen.
    >>>Pre-view appears to support top-posting, the most new/relevant information
    >>>on top. But if someone would contact the developers and have the preview
    >>>window start at the "bottom" or last item, then I'd add my comments at the
    >>>bottom.

    >>
    >> Could you name some news clients that have "preview screens"?

    >
    >The one that is on more computers than any other, Outlook Express


    News clients. OE is an email client.
  5. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:43:20 -0800, Joseph <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com>
    said in alt.cellular:

    >On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 03:32:44 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote:


    >>Could you name some news clients that have "preview screens"?


    >What's your definition of new?


    New*S* clients, not new clients.

    >Eudora has a preview pane


    Eudora is an email client, not a news client.
  6. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:06:31 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:

    >And 90% of the posters in Microsoft newsgroups top-post, what does that
    >tell you?


    That 90% of the posters in Microsoft newsgroups don't follow
    convention.
  7. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:21:34 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:

    >"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:5uc0p0d64tdjcg1098aa34ddmlhmcn0sei@4ax.com...
    >> On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:32:11 GMT, "John Richards"
    >> <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:


    >>> It may be 'cool' in certain circles to
    >>>be anti-MS, but the fact remains that their OS is on 95% of all personal
    >>>computers. As such, they are a force to be reckoned with, and can't be
    >>>ignored.


    >> As an OS, yes. As apps, yes. That still doesn't make them a
    >> standards committee.


    >You don't think MS sits on a lot of standards committees?


    I said that they're not a standards committee. They may sit on every
    committee ever formed, but a) their making top-posting easy doesn't
    make top-posting the standard and b) the fact that the cursor starts
    at the top of the post being quoted doesn't mean that you post your
    entire response there - you bring the cursor down to where you want
    your response to appear.

    >Regardless of that point, it is indisputable that MS encourages
    >top-posting in their own newsgroups.


    By having the cursor in OE appear at the top, or by telling people to
    do so?
  8. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:25:23 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:

    >"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:77i0p0hiks2d9nb144pglha4i51vmjdkab@4ax.com...
    >> On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 18:06:53 GMT, "John Richards"
    >> <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:


    >>>You're grossly mischaracterizing my position. As I've stated before,
    >>>when I reply to a post I'll use whatever convention is already in use
    >>>for that thread, eventhough I prefer top-posting.
    >>>When in Rome, do as the Romans...


    >> The majority of "Romans" bottom post.


    >In non-MS newsgroups, yes.


    Which is the VAST majority of usenet.

    >That said, I've seen the percentage
    >of top-posted Usenet messages steadily increase over the last
    >few years. It's a trend that can't be denied.


    I've seen more and more stupidity on usenet, (I'm not aiming this at
    you.) It's a trend that can't be denied. That doesn't make it a good
    thing, or something that should be encouraged.
  9. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:28:51 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:

    >"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:m8i0p0h2ggrc8gbemjaou51ibivv7qov9p@4ax.com...
    >> On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 21:26:23 GMT, "John Richards"
    >> <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:
    >>
    >>>Yep, it's a judgment call. For me, the preview screen shows about 31 lines.
    >>>YMMV. If a post shows nothing but old quoted text for the first 31 lines, I'll
    >>>skip it and go on to the next. Life is too short to waste it by scrolling
    >>>Usenet posts.

    >>
    >> Very few news readers (if any) have "preview screens", unless you
    >> count the topic as a preview.

    >
    >That's the advantage of the three-paned preview screen in MS-OE.
    >I don't have to 'open' a message to see its contents.


    If you call it an advantage. Most other news clients have a much
    bigger advantage - they're not affected by OE viruses.
  10. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:42:47 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:

    >"Joseph" <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:4802p09uljkk4j6goc4lepbv088digfmpn@4ax.com...
    >> On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 02:49:26 GMT, "Steve B" <netuser49@hotmail.com>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>I hate having to scroll when bottom-posters do not snip the unimportant
    >>>parts of a posting...

    >>
    >> I hate having to scroll when top posters do not snip the unimportant
    >> parts of a posting!

    >
    >Why should you have to scroll at all in such a circumstance?


    To see to what the poster is referring. Then scroll back to the top
    to read the reply. Then back down. Then back up. Then ...
  11. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:41:16 -0800, "Quick"
    <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> said in alt.cellular:

    >I don't know. Maybe only that most of them use Outlook and OE, which
    >encourage top posting by putting the cursor at the top when you reply?


    Most newsreaders do that. Most posters don't top-post.
  12. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 04:36:58 GMT, David S
    <dwstreeter@spamisnaughty.att.net> said in alt.cellular:

    >Otoh, I use a *real* newsreader, Forte Agent, instead of Outlook Depress.
    >Agent features "single key read" which lets me advance one whole screenful
    >with a single press of the spacebar (or whatever key I specify).


    Or you can just use the PgDn key - and so can Lookout Distress users.

    The point is that bottom posting (or, more properly, interleaved
    posting) results in a natural flow - quote, response, quote, response,
    etc.
  13. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:07:20 GMT, "Chris Pisarra" <Chris@Pisarra.com>
    said in alt.cellular:

    >David S burbled to the world:


    >> Otoh, I use a *real* newsreader, Forte Agent, instead of Outlook
    >> Depress.


    >What kind of self righteousness does it take for you to deride
    >the most popular program in its area


    It's not. You can't realistically claim that an email client is the
    most popular news client - it's not any kind of news client, it's an
    email client. While Agent might not be the most popular news client
    (or it may be - I really don't care), it's a news client.
  14. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "Carey Gregory" <tiredofspam123@comcast.net> wrote in message news:ra85p05gtkcud9foc2100q0mfbcppt4ob4@4ax.com...
    > "John Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >>Indeed. OE may not be greatest at handling binaries, but for text
    >>newsgroups like this one it is second to none.

    >
    > Having used OE and Agent and a few others for many years, I would say OE is
    > definitely second to many, if not most.


    That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.
    I tried Agent for one week, but gave up on it because I
    thought its user interface was not all that intuitive.
    OE does everything I need, so why look elsewhere?

    --
    John Richards
  15. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "Joseph" <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6lj5p0du8u0i7tjrec9ni8pt0qpht0ktln@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:12:35 GMT, "John Richards"
    > <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >>Accepted. And for the record, I have no beef with bottom-posted
    >>messages as long as excess quoted text is snipped out.

    >
    > Which *you* didn't do yourself! You quoted in two previous messages
    > in their entirety. If you're going to complain about people not
    > excising extra text you should take up that suggestion for yourself!


    That's *your* opinion. As far as I'm concerned, I quote only enough to
    make my comments understandable in context. There will always be
    differences of opinion on how much to quote.

    --
    John Richards
  16. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "Joseph" <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ssj5p0h7j0nans97e5tg7khki84bpk3cts@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:42:47 GMT, "John Richards"
    > <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >>"Joseph" <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:4802p09uljkk4j6goc4lepbv088digfmpn@4ax.com...
    >>> On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 02:49:26 GMT, "Steve B" <netuser49@hotmail.com>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>I hate having to scroll when bottom-posters do not snip the unimportant
    >>>>parts of a posting...
    >>>
    >>> I hate having to scroll when top posters do not snip the unimportant
    >>> parts of a posting!

    >>
    >>Why should you have to scroll at all in such a circumstance?
    >>That is precisely the advantage of top-posting.

    >
    > Because the people who dump reply think that it's the reader's duty to
    > look through the whole original posting or several previous postings
    > to try and figure out what it is that the person was replying to
    > rather than have the person just quote the part of the post that they
    > are replying to. Top posters by and large are post and dump and leave
    > it up to their reader to *try* and figure out what they are responding
    > to.


    There are clueless newbies and psychopaths in every newsgroup.
    Someone who top-posts to an established bottom-posted thread, AND
    doesn't even bother to trim non-essential quotes, doesn't deserve to
    be read. Just ignore the post and go on to the next one.

    --
    John Richards
  17. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:h3n5p0phrjtjfon8p61lfgrn2e6g0pg9oa@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:51:38 GMT, "John Richards"
    > <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:
    >
    >>"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:1p23p05592ilsjra0sqbqa3vc930qkm5od@4ax.com...
    >>> Could you name some news clients that have "preview screens"?

    >>
    >>The one that is on more computers than any other, Outlook Express

    >
    > News clients. OE is an email client.


    Get off your high horse. OE is an email AND news client. In fact,
    Microsoft used to call OE "Internet Mail and News" when it came with
    Windows 95. The executable for OE is still called the same as it was in
    1995: msimn.exe, an acronym for Microsoft Internet Mail and News.

    --
    John Richards
  18. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:e8n5p0hshrk0tnp0oi7mi8dq0p2ghg06vo@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:06:31 GMT, "John Richards"
    > <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:
    >
    >>And 90% of the posters in Microsoft newsgroups top-post, what does that
    >>tell you?

    >
    > That 90% of the posters in Microsoft newsgroups don't follow
    > convention.


    That doesn't explain *why* Microsoft posters do so. There must be
    some intrinsic advantage, or else they wouldn't be doing it.

    --
    John Richards
  19. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:t9n5p0ld0mpjhkrsa0mkd5pkitrdo94r57@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:21:34 GMT, "John Richards"
    > <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:
    >>Regardless of that point, it is indisputable that MS encourages
    >>top-posting in their own newsgroups.

    >
    > By having the cursor in OE appear at the top, or by telling people to
    > do so?


    Neither. By example, by having their top engineers and developers
    post that way in the MS beta tester newsgroups.

    --
    John Richards
  20. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:lkn5p0lr5c5j28fh0fkie6t4cu5kouec7a@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:28:51 GMT, "John Richards"
    > <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:
    >>That's the advantage of the three-paned preview screen in MS-OE.
    >>I don't have to 'open' a message to see its contents.

    >
    > If you call it an advantage. Most other news clients have a much
    > bigger advantage - they're not affected by OE viruses.


    In nearly 10 years of daily use, I've never been affected by any
    so-called OE virus. Viruses happen to people who: a) click on any
    link or attachment, no matter how suspicious, b) don't use Windows
    Update to keep the OS patched, c) don't use an AV program with
    frequent updates, d) don't use a firewall.

    --
    John Richards

Welcome to VerizonForums!

Unfortunately you can't reply until you log in or sign up.


Forgot your password?