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cell phone use in hospitals

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by maryann, Nov 18, 2003.

  1. JC Dill

    JC Dill Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:40:17 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:

    >That doesn't explain *why* Microsoft posters do so. There must be
    >some intrinsic advantage, or else they wouldn't be doing it.


    It's the same advantage (to the individual) of driving slowly in the
    fast lane. It's easy, who cares if it inconveniences others. It's
    also just as rude as driving slowly in the fast lane.

    Learning netiquette is just like learning etiquette or learning the
    rules of the road. There ARE rules, and when everyone follows them
    things work well for everyone. And there are those who feel that they
    are above the rules and can do what they want because it's easy for
    them (they think, proper posting etiquette is JUST as easy as improper
    posting etiquette, once you know what the rules are and get used to
    following them), and to hell with everyone else. You get to choose
    which camp you want to be in!

    jc



    › See More: cell phone use in hospitals
  2. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:8sp5p05c2vobp305gll1obqvdjs5dk1hmi@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:42:47 GMT, "John Richards"
    > <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:
    >
    >>"Joseph" <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:4802p09uljkk4j6goc4lepbv088digfmpn@4ax.com...
    >>> I hate having to scroll when top posters do not snip the unimportant
    >>> parts of a posting!

    >>
    >>Why should you have to scroll at all in such a circumstance?

    >
    > To see to what the poster is referring. Then scroll back to the top
    > to read the reply. Then back down. Then back up. Then ...


    If the poster's comment is that oblique, AND he quotes more than a
    screenful, you should just skip it and go on to the next post.

    --
    John Richards
  3. DevilsPGD

    DevilsPGD Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    In message <1100122720.152587@sj-nntpcache-5> "Quick"
    <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

    >John Richards wrote:
    >>
    >> And 90% of the posters in Microsoft newsgroups top-post, what does
    >> that tell you?

    >
    >I don't know. Maybe only that most of them use Outlook and OE, which
    >encourage top posting by putting the cursor at the top when you reply?
    >Might not tell you anything more than that.


    OE does encourage top posting, but not because it puts the cursor at the
    top -- Most newsclients do that. OE encourages top posting because it
    moves the existing message down.

    The top is generally the correct place to place the cursor, as you go
    through to trip the unneeded posts you'll end up at the bottom of the
    message and be ready to start writing.

    --
    When you're arguing with a fool, make sure he isn't doing the same thing.
  4. DevilsPGD

    DevilsPGD Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    In message <h3n5p0phrjtjfon8p61lfgrn2e6g0pg9oa@4ax.com> Al Klein
    <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote:

    >>>>While I might miss out on some information, I use a pre-view screen.
    >>>>Pre-view appears to support top-posting, the most new/relevant information
    >>>>on top. But if someone would contact the developers and have the preview
    >>>>window start at the "bottom" or last item, then I'd add my comments at the
    >>>>bottom.
    >>>
    >>> Could you name some news clients that have "preview screens"?

    >>
    >>The one that is on more computers than any other, Outlook Express

    >
    >News clients. OE is an email client.


    OE is both. ThunderBird is both as well.

    Agent has a three pane view which some might call a preview pane.

    --
    When you're arguing with a fool, make sure he isn't doing the same thing.
  5. DevilsPGD

    DevilsPGD Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    In message <PMvkd.27808$Qv5.835@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com> "John
    Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:

    >>>Very few news readers (if any) have "preview screens", unless you
    >>>count the topic as a preview.

    >>
    >> And some of those that do can be made to collapse quotes anyway, so you
    >> get to see the new content right away, without breaking the discussion.

    >
    >Really? Which news readers have that option? Sounds like the best of
    >both conventions.


    ThunderBird with an extension. When I first saw it mentioned it
    included a "just like xyz" but I didn't notice which other client.

    I've tried most, but so far the only one I really like for general
    usenet use is Agent.


    --
    When you're arguing with a fool, make sure he isn't doing the same thing.
  6. DevilsPGD

    DevilsPGD Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    In message <kowkd.27819$Qv5.24621@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com> "John
    Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:

    >>> Otoh, I use a *real* newsreader, Forte Agent, instead of Outlook
    >>> Depress. Agent features "single key read" which lets me advance one
    >>> whole screenful with a single press of the spacebar (or whatever key
    >>> I specify).

    >>
    >> The spacebar does that in OE, too.

    >
    >Nice catch. I didn't know it could do that.


    It does, but that's not the single key read feature of Agent. The
    single key read feature also lets you find the next unread message using
    the same single key. The advantage is that the especially lazy amongst
    us (especially those that can't touch type) can read through groups
    without looking at the keyboard or touching a mouse.

    >> What kind of self righteousness does it take for you to deride
    >> the most popular program in its area as not "real"? You can like it or
    >> not, but it's real, I assure you.

    >
    >Indeed. OE may not be greatest at handling binaries, but for text
    >newsgroups like this one it is second to none.


    I, for one, miss the days when adding <input type=crash> into a text
    post would crash OE.

    OE isn't bad, but it's not great either.


    --
    When you're arguing with a fool, make sure he isn't doing the same thing.
  7. DevilsPGD

    DevilsPGD Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    In message <i6q5p05krufvh22osdhi7d2bnk5s0mdit0@4ax.com> Al Klein
    <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote:

    >>> Otoh, I use a *real* newsreader, Forte Agent, instead of Outlook
    >>> Depress.

    >
    >>What kind of self righteousness does it take for you to deride
    >>the most popular program in its area

    >
    >It's not. You can't realistically claim that an email client is the
    >most popular news client - it's not any kind of news client, it's an
    >email client. While Agent might not be the most popular news client
    >(or it may be - I really don't care), it's a news client.


    huh? I'm as anti-Outlook as you can get, and getting there with OE, but
    both OE and Agent are mail and news clients.


    --
    When you're arguing with a fool, make sure he isn't doing the same thing.
  8. DevilsPGD

    DevilsPGD Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    In message <6ZEkd.27909$Qv5.1070@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com> "John
    Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:

    >>>That's the advantage of the three-paned preview screen in MS-OE.
    >>>I don't have to 'open' a message to see its contents.

    >>
    >> If you call it an advantage. Most other news clients have a much
    >> bigger advantage - they're not affected by OE viruses.

    >
    >In nearly 10 years of daily use, I've never been affected by any
    >so-called OE virus. Viruses happen to people who: a) click on any
    >link or attachment, no matter how suspicious, b) don't use Windows
    >Update to keep the OS patched, c) don't use an AV program with
    >frequent updates, d) don't use a firewall.


    OE has had more then one that it would launch on it's own simply by
    selecting the message with the preview pane, or by opening the message
    in the main window.

    In fairness, those were patched many moons ago, but they were real
    problems and IIRC were exploited before the patch was released.


    --
    When you're arguing with a fool, make sure he isn't doing the same thing.
  9. FLewis

    FLewis Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "Quick" <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> opined in the message
    news:1100122720.152587@sj-nntpcache-5...
    > John Richards wrote:
    > >
    > > And 90% of the posters in Microsoft newsgroups top-post, what does
    > > that tell you?

    >
    > Maybe only that most of them use Outlook and OE, which
    > encourage top posting by putting the cursor at the top when you reply?
    >


    As a Newbie, I once top-posted. That is until I learned that it was
    considered rude, just as I learned that ALL CAPS is considered shouting. (I
    *can* be taught. Just don't tell my wife.) Now I find that having the cursor
    at the top is convenient for <snip>ing the detritus out of the original
    post.

    My2cents
  10. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "John Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:

    >That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.
    >I tried Agent for one week, but gave up on it because I
    >thought its user interface was not all that intuitive.
    >OE does everything I need, so why look elsewhere?


    I really don't care what you use. I simply disagreed with your assessment
    that OE was "second to none."
  11. Quick

    Quick Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    dr.wireMORE wrote:
    > I use outlook express (as others have noted) with the preview screen.
    > I set the view to = current view = unread messages, and I have the
    > preview screen open. It is very easy to navigate thru subject matter
    > with just one hand on the keyboard, using the up/down left/right
    > arrows. I get the most content in the shortest amount of time.
    >
    > Sadly, because of this method, I might miss some "good" information
    > at the bottom of the post. Top Posting helps me, but to each their
    > own. dr. wiremore


    This is one of the main issues that runs contrary to the philosophy
    and netiquette of usenet (and other internet group communication
    mechanisms). "...to each their own...".

    For one thing it doesn't scale.
    Let's *assume* that one convention *is* better from the group
    perspective but is less convenient from the individual perspective.
    "...to each their own..." is strictly from the individual perspective.

    spammers use the same justification,
    -Quick
  12. Quick

    Quick Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    JC Dill wrote:
    > On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:40:17 GMT, "John Richards"
    > <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >> That doesn't explain *why* Microsoft posters do so. There must be
    >> some intrinsic advantage, or else they wouldn't be doing it.

    >
    > It's the same advantage (to the individual) of driving slowly in the
    > fast lane. It's easy, who cares if it inconveniences others. It's
    > also just as rude as driving slowly in the fast lane.
    >
    > Learning netiquette is just like learning etiquette or learning the
    > rules of the road. There ARE rules, and when everyone follows them
    > things work well for everyone. And there are those who feel that they
    > are above the rules and can do what they want because it's easy for
    > them (they think, proper posting etiquette is JUST as easy as improper
    > posting etiquette, once you know what the rules are and get used to
    > following them), and to hell with everyone else. You get to choose
    > which camp you want to be in!


    I just keep being amazed how all this still applies to the original
    thread of using cell phones in hospitals... -:)

    -Quick
  13. JC Dill

    JC Dill Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:17:47 -0800, "Quick"
    <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

    >I just keep being amazed how all this still applies to the original
    >thread of using cell phones in hospitals... -:)


    The way it applies is that some hospitals have decided to ban cell
    phones due to the selfish behavior of *some* cell phone users who
    couldn't be trusted to use their cell phones responsibly. The "I can
    use my phone whenever and however I want" mentality is very close to
    the "I can post at the top because it's more convenient for me"
    mentality. :)

    Responsible cell phone users know when to shut their phone off or put
    it on vibrate, they know how to keep the phone away from sensitive
    equipment that might be affected by the cell phone signal, and they
    generally also know to avoid top posting.

    jc
  14. Re: Top posting

    "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >It is second to last ... with none being last.


    I agree. Frankly, it's fairly obvious that the folks who designed OE had
    little or no experience with usenet and didn't understand even the basics
    (defaulting to HTML proves that).

    >OE is a really poor news reader [one which I was unfortunately enough to
    >use for quite sometime]. There is a patch that is good for OE [sorry if
    >it was posted already].
    >http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/ This make life more
    >endurable for those of us forced to read OE posts and it make life
    >easier for those that post with OE.


    Yep, used it and it works great.

    The very fact that somebody had to spend his time creating a program to fix
    the product of a huge corporation should tell you everything you need to
    know about OE. Seems to me they hired the wrong people and should have
    hired this guy instead http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
  15. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:04:28 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:

    >"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:8sp5p05c2vobp305gll1obqvdjs5dk1hmi@4ax.com...
    >> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:42:47 GMT, "John Richards"
    >> <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:
    >>
    >>>"Joseph" <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:4802p09uljkk4j6goc4lepbv088digfmpn@4ax.com...
    >>>> I hate having to scroll when top posters do not snip the unimportant
    >>>> parts of a posting!
    >>>
    >>>Why should you have to scroll at all in such a circumstance?

    >>
    >> To see to what the poster is referring. Then scroll back to the top
    >> to read the reply. Then back down. Then back up. Then ...

    >
    >If the poster's comment is that oblique, AND he quotes more than a
    >screenful, you should just skip it and go on to the next post.


    Your experience on usenet is evidently limited to short posts.
  16. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:40:17 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:

    >"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:e8n5p0hshrk0tnp0oi7mi8dq0p2ghg06vo@4ax.com...
    >> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:06:31 GMT, "John Richards"
    >> <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:


    >>>And 90% of the posters in Microsoft newsgroups top-post, what does that
    >>>tell you?


    >> That 90% of the posters in Microsoft newsgroups don't follow
    >> convention.


    >That doesn't explain *why* Microsoft posters do so. There must be
    >some intrinsic advantage, or else they wouldn't be doing it.


    The "intrinsic advantage" is that it's easier for those who are too
    lazy to move their cursors.
  17. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:45:25 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:

    >"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:t9n5p0ld0mpjhkrsa0mkd5pkitrdo94r57@4ax.com...
    >> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:21:34 GMT, "John Richards"
    >> <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:


    >>>Regardless of that point, it is indisputable that MS encourages
    >>>top-posting in their own newsgroups.


    >> By having the cursor in OE appear at the top, or by telling people to
    >> do so?


    >Neither. By example, by having their top engineers and developers
    >post that way in the MS beta tester newsgroups.


    Are those the same engineers and developers who write "flavor of the
    week" software?
  18. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:58:58 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:

    >In nearly 10 years of daily use, I've never been affected by any
    >so-called OE virus. Viruses happen to people who: a) click on any
    >link or attachment, no matter how suspicious, b) don't use Windows
    >Update to keep the OS patched, c) don't use an AV program with
    >frequent updates, d) don't use a firewall.


    You forgot e) use Word as the Outlook editor and receive Word viruses.
    That this happens in huge corporations that have entire staffs
    maintaining firewalls means that OE is an intrinsically unsafe way to
    go.
  19. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "Joseph" <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:eek:167p05dgmkam4rdg5tuoinb36iptdp55q@4ax.com...
    > On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:13:07 GMT, "John Richards"
    > <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >>That's *your* opinion. As far as I'm concerned, I quote only enough to
    >>make my comments understandable in context. There will always be
    >>differences of opinion on how much to quote.

    >
    > Well, ain't that interesting? You're the one who whines about people
    > not exising enough text yet you yourself think it's OK to quote
    > everything whether it's over the span of *several* messages including
    > footers. You speak out of both sides of your mouth and don't make a
    > very convincing argument.


    You seem to have some sort of personal vendetta against me.
    In my 15 years of Usenet posting, no one else has ever complained
    that I overquote, nor has anyone else in this thread said so.

    --
    John Richards
  20. David S

    David S Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 04:21:31 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@verizon.org> chose to
    add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:

    >On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 04:36:58 GMT, David S
    ><dwstreeter@spamisnaughty.att.net> said in alt.cellular:
    >
    >>Otoh, I use a *real* newsreader, Forte Agent, instead of Outlook Depress.
    >>Agent features "single key read" which lets me advance one whole screenful
    >>with a single press of the spacebar (or whatever key I specify).

    >
    >Or you can just use the PgDn key - and so can Lookout Distress users.


    In Agent, when you get to the last screen of the post, the next press of
    the same key you've been using moves you to the next unread post. With
    PgDn, you have to switch to a different key, or worse, to the mouse.

    BTW, Agent's reading pane also functions as a preview pane when you have
    the focus on the message list pane. Not that I often use it that way...

    --
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "Your appliances should be DUMBER than you, just like your furniture, your
    pets and your representatives in Congress." - Dave Barry

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