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cell phone use in hospitals

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by maryann, Nov 18, 2003.

  1. John Eckart

    John Eckart Guest

    The reason you get analog in the hospital and not digital is because =
    analog runs in the megahertz band, and your particular cell provider =
    runs its digital service in the gigahertz band. Megahertz is a lower =
    frequency which travels further and penetrates buildings much better =
    than the higher and more reflective gigahertz band. If you have a =
    provider who runs its digital service in the megahertz band, you'd have =
    much less problems inside buildings and hospitals.

    Note that you never want to use analog mode unless it's an emergency. If =
    a hacker picks up your unsecure analog signal, they'll be able to clone =
    your phone and run up your bill.


    "Bill Roland" <donotspammeplease@cox.net> wrote in message =
    news:meMub.7594$zx.2721@lakeread03...
    > I have 3 of those too, maybe I should haul one in and see what =

    happens. No,
    > I won't, but I bet it would wreak havoc on a lot of stuff around =

    there. I
    > do what the hospital politely asks, I turn my cell phone off at the =

    door,
    > but most people I know do not. The behavior of most Dual Mode phones =

    I have
    > seen is that the moment you walk in the hospital it switches to Analog =

    with
    > a very low signal, then you hit spots inside that have no service, =

    others
    > where you may have full strength, but its always Analog. The moment =

    you
    > step out the doors it returns to digital. I cannot explain it but it
    > happens every time.
    >=20
    > Also, a few years back I had an aunt that had surgery at North Florida
    > Regional in Gainesville. At the time they had, and still did have a =

    few
    > months ago when I was by there, a cell tower on top of the hospital. =

    Not
    > sure how good that is for all that sensitive equipment they are =

    operating
    > below...but that's their problem.
    >=20
    > "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:3fbb7aad$0$41288$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com...
    > >
    > > "Bill Roland" <donotspammeplease@cox.net> wrote in message
    > > news:xADub.7066$zx.1846@lakeread03...
    > > > Which is funny, I've seen many cell phones kick into Analog when =

    inside
    > > the
    > > > hospital. I've seen at least 5 StarTACs do it...
    > > >

    > >
    > > But your startac does not output 3 watts of power like the old bag =

    phones.
    > >
    > > Tom Veldhouse
    > >
    > >

    >=20
    >



    › See More: cell phone use in hospitals
  2. John Eckart

    John Eckart Guest

    lol, good one!

    "The Ghost of General Lee" <ghost@general.lee> wrote in message =
    news:l01mrv8li8t1kdopa954943d4fl8hr47d3@4ax.com...
    > On 18 Nov 2003 20:50:23 -0800, maryann@netzoola.com (maryann) wrote:
    >=20
    > >There was a thread here a few months ago about cell phone use in
    > >hospitals, with plenty of self righteous talk about the "dangers"=20
    > >to the patients.
    > >
    > >I spent all of today in John Muir Hospital waiting for the gf to come =

    out=20
    > >of surgery, and noticed that each and every hospital employee appears =

    to=20
    > >be equipped with a cell phone. Needless to say, they
    > >seem to think they won't kill the patients that way.

    >=20
    > Wanna have some fun with them? Change your banner to say "Phone is
    > off". I got challanged when I walked into the lobby of our local
    > hospital one day. I was only going into the business office where
    > cell phone usage was not prohibited. I had set my banner to say
    > "Phone is off" and when I showed the receptionist the screen, she read
    > it and thanked me for complying.
    >
  3. Richard Ness

    Richard Ness Guest

    Unless you are roaming, I seriously doubt this is the issue.
    VZW uses the 800Mhz 'band' for both digital and analog in the areas
    that they use 800Mhz, (the majority). There are a few exceptions, but
    they are only in the very few areas that VZW runs both.

    Now, if you loose VZW's signal, you may 'roam' unto a 1900Mhz carrier.



    "John Eckart" <JEckart@mail.com> wrote in message news:yDSub.7270$n56.5459@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    The reason you get analog in the hospital and not digital is because analog runs in the megahertz band, and your particular cell
    provider runs its digital service in the gigahertz band. Megahertz is a lower frequency which travels further and penetrates
    buildings much better than the higher and more reflective gigahertz band. If you have a provider who runs its digital service in the
    megahertz band, you'd have much less problems inside buildings and hospitals.

    Note that you never want to use analog mode unless it's an emergency. If a hacker picks up your unsecure analog signal, they'll be
    able to clone your phone and run up your bill.


    "Bill Roland" <donotspammeplease@cox.net> wrote in message news:meMub.7594$zx.2721@lakeread03...
    > I have 3 of those too, maybe I should haul one in and see what happens. No,
    > I won't, but I bet it would wreak havoc on a lot of stuff around there. I
    > do what the hospital politely asks, I turn my cell phone off at the door,
    > but most people I know do not. The behavior of most Dual Mode phones I have
    > seen is that the moment you walk in the hospital it switches to Analog with
    > a very low signal, then you hit spots inside that have no service, others
    > where you may have full strength, but its always Analog. The moment you
    > step out the doors it returns to digital. I cannot explain it but it
    > happens every time.
    >
    > Also, a few years back I had an aunt that had surgery at North Florida
    > Regional in Gainesville. At the time they had, and still did have a few
    > months ago when I was by there, a cell tower on top of the hospital. Not
    > sure how good that is for all that sensitive equipment they are operating
    > below...but that's their problem.
    >
    > "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:3fbb7aad$0$41288$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com...
    > >
    > > "Bill Roland" <donotspammeplease@cox.net> wrote in message
    > > news:xADub.7066$zx.1846@lakeread03...
    > > > Which is funny, I've seen many cell phones kick into Analog when inside

    > > the
    > > > hospital. I've seen at least 5 StarTACs do it...
    > > >

    > >
    > > But your startac does not output 3 watts of power like the old bag phones.
    > >
    > > Tom Veldhouse
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
  4. Markeau

    Markeau Guest

    The dr's, nurses, etc, use their cell phones up and down the halls
    outside surgery, icu, etc, in the hospital near me.
  5. John Eckart

    John Eckart Guest

    "J Oat" <bd13580@yahoo.com> wrote in message =
    news:vrnqoo7e1e0o02@corp.supernews.com...
    > Lawrence,
    > save your breaths, most people do not want to know. ignorant is bless
    >=20
    > btw i agree with your view. CDMA radiate the least and GSM the most =

    at
    > their peak output of 2W I think, even though the average power output =

    is
    > comparable to CDMA.


    Doesn't CDMA use spread-spectrum technology which transmits on more than =
    one frequency at a time? So would that, in itself, cause more =
    interference?

    Just because you can *hear* TDMA better over a speaker than CDMA doesn't =
    necessarily mean that it causes *more* interference. The two modes are =
    still radiating energy which are capable of causing interference to =
    electronic equipment.

    One possible reason why some hospitals allow cell phones while others =
    don't could be because some hospitals could be using older equipment =
    which may be more susceptible to RFI while other hospitals with newer =
    equipment can handle it better due to its better electronics, design and =
    shielding.
  6. Tom J

    Tom J Guest

    "Bill Roland" <donotspammeplease@cox.net> wrote in message
    news:meMub.7594$zx.2721@lakeread03...
    > I have 3 of those too, maybe I should haul one in and see what happens. No,
    > I won't, but I bet it would wreak havoc on a lot of stuff around there. I
    > do what the hospital politely asks, I turn my cell phone off at the door,
    > but most people I know do not.


    That policy, as others have said, varies from one hospital to the next. I
    just had a friend die in a local hospital. His wife was at home at the time
    and called me to take her to the hospital. I had my cell phone along, but
    didn't need it after all. When we got to his hall, a nurse escorted us to his
    room and said if there was anything we wanted to let them know, and then said,
    by the way, here is a cell phone that you can use to call family and friends.
    I said I thought you were not suppose to use cell phones in a hospital. Her
    answer was - In some it is, but here you can use a cell phone anywhere unless
    the door you are going through has a restriction notice on it, and we all have
    cell phones furnished by the hospital for communications.

    Tom J
  7. John Eckart

    John Eckart Guest

    Anyone know of any other places where you can't use cell phones, like =
    missile silos or something?


    "maryann" <maryann@netzoola.com> wrote in message =
    news:17f585bf.0311182050.13162875@posting.google.com...
    > There was a thread here a few months ago about cell phone use in
    > hospitals, with plenty of self righteous talk about the "dangers"=20
    > to the patients.
    >=20
    > I spent all of today in John Muir Hospital waiting for the gf to come =

    out=20
    > of surgery, and noticed that each and every hospital employee appears =

    to=20
    > be equipped with a cell phone. Needless to say, they
    > seem to think they won't kill the patients that way.
  8. In alt.cellular John Eckart <JEckart@mail.com> wrote:
    > The reason you get analog in the hospital and not digital is because analog
    > runs in the megahertz band, and your particular cell provider runs its
    > digital service in the gigahertz band. Megahertz is a lower frequency


    to clarify, since this definition of GHz and MHz isn't *quite* correct,

    1 Gigahertz = 1000 Megahertz.

    There is no such thing as a Gigahertz or Megahertz "band" - they're units
    of measure, like pounds or yards.

    Analog runs at 800 Megahertz. Some digital phones run at 800 or 850, and
    some (depending on how frequencies are allocated in the country where you
    are located) run at 900. Others run at 1.8 GHz or 1.9 GHz (again, depending
    on where you are; 1.9 is used in the US, 1.8 is used in Europe.)

    However, 1.8 GHz and 1.9 GHz *can also be stated as 1800 MHz and 1900 MHz,
    respectively.*

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  9. In alt.cellular Richard Ness <richard.no@damnspam.nessnet.com> wrote:
    > Unless you are roaming, I seriously doubt this is the issue.
    > VZW uses the 800Mhz 'band' for both digital and analog in the areas
    > that they use 800Mhz, (the majority). There are a few exceptions, but
    > they are only in the very few areas that VZW runs both.


    Still, there are some decent-sized markets where 1900 MHz is used - not
    necessarily overlaid over 800, either.

    --SJ "I like nitpicking" S

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  10. In alt.cellular John Eckart <JEckart@mail.com> wrote:
    > Anyone know of any other places where you can't use cell phones, like
    > missile silos or something?


    Blasting areas, where the crews typically use radio-controlled detonators.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  11. On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:40:57 GMT, "John Eckart" <JEckart@mail.com>
    wrote:

    >Anyone know of any other places where you can't use cell phones, like missile silos or something?


    While driving down my driveway. Call drops every damn time.:)
  12. Peter Pan

    Peter Pan Guest

    "John Eckart" <JEckart@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:dcTub.6330$sb4.3791@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    Anyone know of any other places where you can't use cell phones, like
    missile silos or something?



    Depends how sadistic a personal trainer is, (but they may be as bad as a
    missle), but many health clubs don't allow them.
  13. Do they blast with radios now?
    It used to be that they merely laid out a big loop of series-connected
    electrical detonators, each one punched into the topmost dynamite stick =
    of its hole.

    That big loop of wire was an unpredictable antenna,
    susceptible to picking up almost any stray rf energy,
    most especially including any nearby lightning strokes.

    HF mobile radios, transmitting tens of watts, were certainly hazardous.
    "Probably" our milliwatt Gigahertz cell phones would be safe,
    but I wouldn't care to gamble on it. There's too much at stake.
    ---JRC---

    "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message =
    news:b_qdnZ27RYX3nSGiRVn-sQ@lmi.net...
    >=20
    > Blasting areas, where the crews typically use radio-controlled =

    detonators.
    >=20
    > --=20
  14. Bill Roland

    Bill Roland Guest

    No it isn't, its Alltel, who only operates on the cellular B side here.
    They don't operate in the PCS band here, and the phone was not roaming, it
    kicked over to Alltel Analog from Alltel Digital (CDMA), both in the celluar
    band.


    "John Eckart" <JEckart@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:yDSub.7270$n56.5459@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    The reason you get analog in the hospital and not digital is because analog
    runs in the megahertz band, and your particular cell provider runs its
    digital service in the gigahertz band. Megahertz is a lower frequency which
    travels further and penetrates buildings much better than the higher and
    more reflective gigahertz band. If you have a provider who runs its digital
    service in the megahertz band, you'd have much less problems inside
    buildings and hospitals.

    Note that you never want to use analog mode unless it's an emergency. If a
    hacker picks up your unsecure analog signal, they'll be able to clone your
    phone and run up your bill.


    "Bill Roland" <donotspammeplease@cox.net> wrote in message
    news:meMub.7594$zx.2721@lakeread03...
    > I have 3 of those too, maybe I should haul one in and see what happens.

    No,
    > I won't, but I bet it would wreak havoc on a lot of stuff around there. I
    > do what the hospital politely asks, I turn my cell phone off at the door,
    > but most people I know do not. The behavior of most Dual Mode phones I

    have
    > seen is that the moment you walk in the hospital it switches to Analog

    with
    > a very low signal, then you hit spots inside that have no service, others
    > where you may have full strength, but its always Analog. The moment you
    > step out the doors it returns to digital. I cannot explain it but it
    > happens every time.
    >
    > Also, a few years back I had an aunt that had surgery at North Florida
    > Regional in Gainesville. At the time they had, and still did have a few
    > months ago when I was by there, a cell tower on top of the hospital. Not
    > sure how good that is for all that sensitive equipment they are operating
    > below...but that's their problem.
    >
    > "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:3fbb7aad$0$41288$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com...
    > >
    > > "Bill Roland" <donotspammeplease@cox.net> wrote in message
    > > news:xADub.7066$zx.1846@lakeread03...
    > > > Which is funny, I've seen many cell phones kick into Analog when

    inside
    > > the
    > > > hospital. I've seen at least 5 StarTACs do it...
    > > >

    > >
    > > But your startac does not output 3 watts of power like the old bag

    phones.
    > >
    > > Tom Veldhouse
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
  15. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:02:14 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    <sjsobol@JustThe.net> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >In alt.cellular.verizon Bill Roland <donotspammeplease@cox.net> wrote:
    >> Which is funny, I've seen many cell phones kick into Analog when inside the
    >> hospital. I've seen at least 5 StarTACs do it...


    >There's probably a metric buttload of RF shielding at a hospital. I'm surprised
    >phones could be used at all.


    Not in any hospital I've been in. And we used to provide
    communication for one hospital whenever their phone system went down,
    using out ham radio repeater and walkie talkies.

    >Back when I worked in Lakewood, Ohio, I worked in an office that had
    >an MRI service on the first floor. It was so heavily shielded that you couldn't
    >get a cell signal anywhere lower than the fourth floor... Now the MRI is gone
    >and you can get a signal anywhere in the building.


    That's because of the interference the MRI would cause without the
    shielding. X-Ray bays are also shielded. Hospital buildings don't
    need shielding for the entire building, though.
  16. In alt.cellular John R. Copeland <jcopelan@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
    > Do they blast with radios now?


    ICBW. I'm not the authoritative person on the subject. :)
    That information didn't come from me originally.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  17. In <6d7orvohngcgeu36ui53hjm6r78t860ume@Pern.rk> Al Klein <rukbat@pern.org> writes:

    >>get a cell signal anywhere lower than the fourth floor... Now the MRI is gone
    >>and you can get a signal anywhere in the building.


    >That's because of the interference the MRI would cause without the
    >shielding. X-Ray bays are also shielded. Hospital buildings don't
    >need shielding for the entire building, though.


    It's just that, in general, hospitals tend to be more massively
    constructed than light duty structures. Add in a whole bunch more in teh
    way of piping and other in-the-wall metallic infrastructure, and radio
    signals run into trouble...

    --
    _____________________________________________________
    Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
    dannyb@panix.com
    [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
  18. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:29:06 -0500, "Thomas M. Goethe"
    <xspamgoethe11xxxxxx@lycos.com> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    > The thing that is so funny is getting screeched at by one hospital
    >worker for merely having one (that was indeed turned off) as two others in
    >the same area are using theirs. When I asked, I was told they were "special"
    >ones that are safe. Hmm, looked just like the ones I had.


    They may be "intrinsically safe", but that has nothing to do with
    hospitals unless anesthesia is in use, and that's a stretch.
  19. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:10:04 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    <sjsobol@JustThe.net> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >I know that back home, the hospital near our house banned two-way pagers.
    >They care about the transmission of radio waves, apparently, but not the
    >reception of the RF on the paging frequencies.


    And, apparently, not the transmission of signal from the one-way
    pager's local oscillator.
  20. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:18:05 -0500, Mark Allread
    <mallread@flatsurface.com> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:36:19 GMT, Lawrence G. Mayka
    ><lgmayka000@ameritech.net> wrote:


    >> The only evidence at all I've seen of interference with sensitive
    >> equipment
    >> (e.g., avionics) was:


    >> 1) Within twelve inches of the equipment


    >> 2) single-frequency technology (analog/TDMA/GSM) instead of
    >> spread-spectrum
    >> (CDMA)


    >Have you ever been in an "all occupants killed" plane crash? Shall
    >we take that as evidence that they don't happen?


    No, but we shouldn't take it as evidence that it DID happen.

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