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cell phone use in hospitals

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by maryann, Nov 18, 2003.

  1. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 17:38:19 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:

    >"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:7ncko0p2glvu815rmn163dupqk6cu2jef2@4ax.com...
    >> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:47:32 -0600, "Sasha" <sasha99@airmail.net> said
    >> in alt.cellular:


    >>>I even took my computer there and used
    >>>my aircard. I was surprised...


    >> Don't be. Computers are ok, cell phones aren't.


    >That's understandable since most hospital personnel aren't
    >technically savvy enough to understand that an aircard transmits
    >on the same frequencies as a cell phone.


    Or that a computer ("but we have computers all over the place") is
    more likely to interfere with medical equipment than is an aircard.



    › See More: cell phone use in hospitals
  2. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 16:39:50 GMT, "John Richards"
    <jr70@blackhole.invalid> said in alt.cellular:

    >I admit that your prior post (bottom-posted) was easier to read, but
    >only because you kept the whole thing to one screen by trimming
    >unnecessary quotes.


    Which is part of the guideline. The same part that calls for bottom
    posting.
  3. "Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:r6qlo0hj6mlijp7va3p2n1qo3ebffeshs7@4ax.com...
    >
    > Or that a computer ("but we have computers all over the place") is
    > more likely to interfere with medical equipment than is an aircard.


    That reminds me of the '70s when we first began controlling
    industrial plants with minicomputers, and our customers worried that
    our computers could be wiped out by their VHF FM Handi-Talkies.

    I usually had to demonstrate that the situation was quite the reverse.
    Nearby minicomputers rendered their pathetic little HTs useless,
    but they could transmit with the rubber duckies against the backplanes,
    and the CPUs never faltered.
    ---JRC---
  4. AJ

    AJ Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    Al Klein wrote:
    (In this context I
    > consider anyone who found usenet after the internet came into
    > existence to be a newbie.


    I supported a network of over 200 mainframes before DARPAnet
    was even a thought. I prefer top posting so I suppose that makes me a
    newbie and your credentials are???

    Jim
  5. DevilsPGD

    DevilsPGD Guest

    In message <_Itid.16158$Rf1.6780@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com> "John
    Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:

    >Um, who reads from the bottom up? I certainly don't. But my attention
    >span and recollection are not so bad that I can't remember what was
    >discussed just prior in a given thread. So I don't need to read the old
    >quoted stuff over again. Evidently *your* retention and recollection
    >powers are not up to par since you *DO* need to read the prior dis-
    >cussions over again before you can understand the newly posted comment.
    >Sorry, I don't share your handicap.


    How many messages a day do you read? Personally, I subscribe to 42
    newsgroups, and read (or at least skim) roughly a thousand messages a
    day. Keeping track of what you said simply isn't my highest priority.


    --
    And sometimes I park, in handicapped spaces,
    While handicapped people, make handicapped faces!
    -- Denis Leary
  6. Locutus

    Locutus Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    AJ <alfieb@att.invalid.net> wrote:

    >Al Klein wrote:
    >(In this context I
    >> consider anyone who found usenet after the internet came into
    >> existence to be a newbie.

    >
    > I supported a network of over 200 mainframes before DARPAnet
    >was even a thought. I prefer top posting so I suppose that makes me a
    >newbie


    Yes, and of the worst kind: the "perma-newbie."
  7. Quick

    Quick Guest

    DevilsPGD wrote:

    > Keeping track of what you said simply isn't my highest priority.


    Doesn't this tend to impact the effectiveness of your replies?

    -Quick
  8. Richard Ness

    Richard Ness Guest

    An experiment you can easily do yourself.

    Take a cheap clock radio or car stereo. Turn it on.
    Key up a Nextel next to it and you will easily hear the xmitter pulsing.
    Tick, tick, tick..... This is measurable RFI, no ifs ands or buts....
    (Radio Frequency Interference)

    Now, key up a CDMA phone under the exact same circumstances.
    Nothing, or very, very little RFI.

    Case closed...


    "Joseph" <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:gu5no05e7aijqg4j1tdkl5r7jujn78ruuv@4ax.com...
    > On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 02:36:19 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote:
    >
    >>On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:54:28 -0500, "Chris Cowles" <NoSpam@For.me> said
    >>in alt.cellular:
    >>
    >>>The facility where I work allows Nextel phones because Nextel has installed
    >>>an network of repeaters inside. Reputedly the repeaters reduce the broadcast
    >>>power required by the handset below the threshold at which it could
    >>>interfere with the electronic equipment.

    >>
    >>>Not having read actual research on the matter, I can't express an opinion
    >>>either way. The fact some hospitals allow it and others don't has no bearing
    >>>on what research proves or disproves about the subject.

    >>
    >>I have, and TDMA (the air interface for iDen) causes much more
    >>interference than CDMA.

    >
    > Cite?
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
  9. FLewis

    FLewis Guest

    "Richard Ness" <richardno@damnspam.nessnet.com> wrote in message
    news:EJWdneKOmYq-fBbcRVn-sA@comcast.com...
    > An experiment you can easily do yourself.
    >
    > Take a cheap clock radio or car stereo. Turn it on.
    > Key up a Nextel next to it and you will easily hear the xmitter pulsing.
    > Tick, tick, tick..... This is measurable RFI, no ifs ands or buts....
    > (Radio Frequency Interference)
    >
    > Now, key up a CDMA phone under the exact same circumstances.
    > Nothing, or very, very little RFI.
    >
    > Case closed...


    I wear a Nokia cell phone next to my Motorola Minitor IX pager, and some
    times when there is communication on the pager I can hear my cell keeping
    contact with the towers. The fact that they are physically touching is
    significant. Were I to hold my phone against some medical equipment I
    realize that there is a slight chance that it may cause some interference
    with the machinery. I also believe that there is a far better chance that I
    would be escorted out of the hospital sporting a shiny pair of chrome
    bracelets.
  10. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:10:19 -0800, Joseph <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com>
    said in alt.cellular:

    >On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 02:36:19 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote:


    >>I have, and TDMA (the air interface for iDen) causes much more
    >>interference than CDMA.


    >Cite?


    No can do (I didn't keep the url) but hold a TDMA phone next to a
    stereo system, then hold a CDMA phone in the same place. Or, if you
    have the equipment, look at both on a spectrum analyzer.
  11. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 04:15:43 GMT, AJ <alfieb@att.invalid.net> said in
    alt.cellular:

    >Al Klein wrote:
    >(In this context I
    >> consider anyone who found usenet after the internet came into
    >> existence to be a newbie.

    >
    > I supported a network of over 200 mainframes before DARPAnet
    >was even a thought. I prefer top posting so I suppose that makes me a
    >newbie


    Not in my eyes.
  12. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 03:03:11 GMT, "John R. Copeland"
    <jcopelan@columbus.rr.aol.com> said in alt.cellular:

    >"Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:r6qlo0hj6mlijp7va3p2n1qo3ebffeshs7@4ax.com...


    >> Or that a computer ("but we have computers all over the place") is
    >> more likely to interfere with medical equipment than is an aircard.


    >That reminds me of the '70s when we first began controlling
    >industrial plants with minicomputers, and our customers worried that
    >our computers could be wiped out by their VHF FM Handi-Talkies.


    >I usually had to demonstrate that the situation was quite the reverse.
    >Nearby minicomputers rendered their pathetic little HTs useless,
    >but they could transmit with the rubber duckies against the backplanes,
    >and the CPUs never faltered.


    I transmit 100 watts, with the transmitter right next to my laptop
    (about 8" separation). Neither one interferes with the other.
  13. Grace

    Grace Guest

    Richard Ness wrote:
    >
    > An experiment you can easily do yourself.
    >
    > Take a cheap clock radio or car stereo. Turn it on.
    > Key up a Nextel next to it and you will easily hear the xmitter pulsing.
    > Tick, tick, tick..... This is measurable RFI, no ifs ands or buts....
    > (Radio Frequency Interference)
    >
    > Now, key up a CDMA phone under the exact same circumstances.
    > Nothing, or very, very little RFI.
    >
    > Case closed...


    Oh no! I wish to appeal!

    Grace
  14. In <c1foo05a6c1hhktpb2baa5mtobse7vm0pd@4ax.com> Al Klein <rukbat@verizon.org> writes:

    >I transmit 100 watts, with the transmitter right next to my laptop
    >(about 8" separation). Neither one interferes with the other.


    In the Good Old Days I would hold up a measly 3 watt CB portable (remember
    those?) near a cassette tape recorder. From up to a foot or so away when I
    keyed up the reels would stop turning.

    Audio interfernce was noticable from quite a bit further away.

    And then there's my friend who had an old IMTS radio telephone (hi,
    Steve). Whenever he keyed up, all the lights for a half mile around would
    either glow or start pulsing.

    Ok, that's not true. But the bit about the tape recorder is.

    --
    _____________________________________________________
    Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
    dannyb@panix.com
    [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
  15. FLewis

    FLewis Guest

    "danny burstein" <dannyb@panix.com> wrote in message
    news:cmhipp$rbh$1@reader1.panix.com...
    >
    > In the Good Old Days I would hold up a measly 3 watt CB portable (remember
    > those?) near a cassette tape recorder. From up to a foot or so away when I
    > keyed up the reels would stop turning.
    >
    > Audio interfernce was noticable from quite a bit further away.


    >laugh<

    Reminds me of my younger days, sitting outside of Ho Jo's in my car and
    accidentally finding out that my CB transmitted quite well over the juke box
    in the bar. Embarrassing for me the first time ... for someone else the
    second time <wink>
  16. "DevilsPGD" <devilspgd@crazyhat.net> wrote in message news:e40mo01i34rhobd26hd7t7cg6vthga9kla@news.supernews.com...
    > In message <_Itid.16158$Rf1.6780@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com> "John
    > Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >>Um, who reads from the bottom up? I certainly don't. But my attention
    >>span and recollection are not so bad that I can't remember what was
    >>discussed just prior in a given thread. So I don't need to read the old
    >>quoted stuff over again. Evidently *your* retention and recollection
    >>powers are not up to par since you *DO* need to read the prior dis-
    >>cussions over again before you can understand the newly posted comment.
    >>Sorry, I don't share your handicap.

    >
    > How many messages a day do you read? Personally, I subscribe to 42
    > newsgroups, and read (or at least skim) roughly a thousand messages a
    > day. Keeping track of what you said simply isn't my highest priority.


    With that kind of skimming I don't see how you can do justice to
    your fellow newsgroup posters. I'd rather participate in fewer
    newsgroups so I can be more attuned to the details of current threads.

    --
    John Richards
  17. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    "Al Klein" <rukbat@verizon.org> wrote in message news:euplo0d4ljg882tp30cau6ccfm4scti3ui@4ax.com...
    > And, since the majority of netizens, and the nettiquete rules, call
    > for bottom posting ...
    >
    > This isn't a new discussion. A few newbies always claim to prefer top
    > posting, and it's been this way for a few decades. (In this context I
    > consider anyone who found usenet after the internet came into
    > existence to be a newbie.)


    I presume you're aware that the news client in Outlook Express
    (which comes installed on 95% of all personal computers) defaults to
    top posting. Microsoft is not exactly a lightweight when it comes to
    computing standards.

    --
    John Richards
  18. On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 04:09:30 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
    <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:

    >And then there's my friend who had an old IMTS radio telephone (hi,
    >Steve).


    Yo, Danny!

    > Whenever he keyed up, all the lights for a half mile around would
    >either glow or start pulsing.
    >
    >Ok, that's not true. But the bit about the tape recorder is.


    Well, it's not far off. I was rarely able to get a channel on my VHF
    IMTS and had to switch to UHF before that gol-dang cellular crap came
    out. ;o) The best was my $3/ minute operator assisted RCC "phone"
    which was just the operator and about 500 people who listened in. And,
    for the Hudson and the inland waterways, the $7/ min. VHF marine
    operator telephone system (I actually used to maintain that system in
    NY Harbor and Upstate).

    The true part is that I had a Syntor X-9000 with a 100 Watt UHF
    chassis. When I keyed up that radio, all I would have to do is drive
    past most cars to set their alarms off. The early radar detectors
    would false at a UHF HT-220 radio I had in a convertacom. Interesting
    to key up and watch brake lights come on.

    Also, had some A9-T83 Spectras that had RFI problems. Want to cut down
    airtime on a public safety system? Key the radio up with a fluorescent
    lightbulb near the antenna and tell the radio operator that he is
    lighting up like the light every time he keys up (LOL! - great party
    trick). The RF would get into the control head and activate an
    integrated siren or halt the uP. But that's 110 Watts on VHF into a
    1/4 wave antenna on a vehicle. It was cleared up with a ferrite choke
    on the mic lead.

    Hopefully RFI is a bigger concern this decade.

    Steve
  19. Steve Sobol

    Steve Sobol Guest

    Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    John Richards wrote:

    > I presume you're aware that the news client in Outlook Express
    > (which comes installed on 95% of all personal computers) defaults to
    > top posting. Microsoft is not exactly a lightweight when it comes to
    > computing standards.


    Right. They like to ignore an awful lot of those standards.



    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
  20. Re: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

    Folks,

    As much as I hate to join in on a troll-thread, I've got to say this....

    May I suggest the google archives? Or one of the dozens of Usenet FAQs that
    address this issue? Top vs. bottom posting is a subject that dates back to
    the early 1980s, and the long-accepted convention is bottom posting. Fact
    is, either one works as well as the other, but *only* if everyone follows
    the same convention. Consistency is important - top or bottom isn't - but
    like it or not, the accepted convention is bottom posting.

    Bottom posting is only annoying when the person replying ignores another
    convention, that convention being to quote only the minimum necessary to
    maintain context. Unfortunately, many people are lazy and they quote the
    whole damned thing, often not even bothering to trim the parts after the one
    short sentence they stuck in the middle of a huge quote.

    So, trim your quotes, bottom post, and everyone will be happy.

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