1. Welcome to Verizon Forums - the unofficial Verizon community! Have a question about Verizon? Click HERE to get started.
  2. Expecting Cell Phone Forums? We recently moved Verizon specific content to VerizonForums.com. If you previously had an account on CPF, it has been transferred!

Customer Service bad and getting worse?

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by AL, Nov 23, 2003.

  1. Larry W4CSC <nospam@home.com> wrote:

    > What's the name on that credit card? I'd like to talk to them.


    The name? Steven J. Sobol. :)

    > Every credit card company I ever dealt with will allow you to defer
    > PAYMENT until the dispute is settled, at the usual interest rate of
    > course, but none of the ones I've ever dealt with like the word
    > "Chargeback", as it relates to getting money loaned to YOU from their
    > merchants.
    >
    > Seriously, I'd like to talk to them. Tell us all who they are......


    The card is issued by Household Credit Services - I'm sure you've heard of
    them. Specifically, it's an Orchard Bank card, which I got a few years ago.
    Orchard Bank is a division of Household that specifically issues cards to
    people with subpar credit. In spite of the fact that, since they issue
    cards to people that others won't do business with, they could screw
    their customers royally if they really wanted to (can you say "Providian,"
    boys and girls?) - their customer service is BETTER than some banks that
    only do traditional credit cards.

    If you go to Household's website, you'll see them talking about how they
    go the extra mile to take care of their customers. Unlike 99% of the CC
    issuers out there, they actually mean it!

    I have been very pleased with their high level of customer service. I will
    be carrying their card for a long time, even though once I'm finished cleaning
    up my credit, I'll probably qualify for several cards with a lower APR.

    http://www.OrchardBank.com/
    http://www.Household.com/

    (Disclaimer: No affiliation with them except as a totally satisfied
    customer. They have an affiliate program which I imagine I'll sign up for
    sooner or later, but right now I'm not a member of that program and derive
    no benefits from getting people to sign up for Orchard Bank cards.)

    BTW, Larry, they don't issue the chargeback immediately. What they do is
    issue the credit to the customer while they are waiting
    for the merchant to document that the charge is legit. If it was a legitimate
    charge, they'd just re-bill me. I know it's not. I went as far as not only
    disputing the charge, but also filling a police report alleging credit card
    fraud (with the PD in the city in which the merchant operates.) This is a
    company I stopped doing business with back in March and yet, somehow, they
    still have my CC number and just decided to bill me out-of-the-blue.

    Of course, since I was issued a credit for the fraudulent charge, I don't
    have to pay interest on the charge amount. (Like I said... Household rocks :)

    The only credit card where the merchants get charged back, sight unseen,
    is AMEX - and then only if you are a high-risk merchant. In that case you
    have no recourse except legal action against the customer.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net



    › See More: Customer Service bad and getting worse?
  2. Ric

    Ric Guest

    Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message news:<382dnSA5lq2h8l6iRVn-ig@lmi.net>...
    > Larry W4CSC <nospam@home.com> wrote:
    >
    > > Big mistake letting a company bureaucrat have your credit card number.
    > > Your card company works for THEM, not you. They want nothing to do
    > > with your disputes with Verizon or anyone else. Ask 'em.

    >
    > Funny, when I recently had a dispute, my cc company credited me pending an
    > investigation and encouraged me to call back if the company that fraudulently
    > billed me tried to claim it was a legitimate charge.


    Yea but most CC companies will only allow you to dispute thru 2
    investigation cycles, generally 2-3 months. Even though you were told
    to contact back, unless you have strong proof, you may infact find the
    charges staying on your CC and you being held liable. Especially
    since you agreed to the automatic charging of your card.
  3. Isaiah Beard

    Isaiah Beard Guest

    Aboutdakota wrote:

    >
    >


    > Unless you have auto-pay. Since the terms of many auto-pay programs
    > state that if charges are paid in a timely manner, there may be NO
    > dispute over charges.


    Exactly why I never sign up for auto pay. yes, it's convenient, but's
    also a rubber-stamp approval on any charges that are assesed to your
    account, be they correct or not.

    --
    E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
  4. Ric <rander04@ureach.com> wrote:

    > Yea but most CC companies will only allow you to dispute thru 2
    > investigation cycles, generally 2-3 months. Even though you were told
    > to contact back, unless you have strong proof, you may infact find the
    > charges staying on your CC and you being held liable. Especially
    > since you agreed to the automatic charging of your card.


    That's fine, because I also pursued criminal charges - I filed a police
    complaint (normally I don't do that on a credit-card dispute, but this was
    a special case). It was $29.95. At that point I pay the $29.95 and let the
    police make the company's life interesting.

    And in this case, I did not agree to the automatic charging of my card, and
    even the officer who took my complaint agreed that they have no business
    keeping a credit card number six months after I've informed them that I am
    terminating my business relationship with them.

    If the idiots persist in arguing that I should have been charged, I will
    ensure that at least one of them ends up in jail and/or fined.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  5. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    Thanks. Household Finance was the first place I borrowed money for a
    1964 Morris Minor 1000 saloon back in 1964. They were the only ones
    who would loan a USN seaman money in Charleston.


    Larry W4CSC

    NNNN
  6. Elector

    Elector Guest

    "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
    news:SrudnSKQq-0qIV6iRVn-gw@lmi.net...
    > Ric <rander04@ureach.com> wrote:
    >
    > > Yea but most CC companies will only allow you to dispute thru 2
    > > investigation cycles, generally 2-3 months. Even though you were told
    > > to contact back, unless you have strong proof, you may infact find the
    > > charges staying on your CC and you being held liable. Especially
    > > since you agreed to the automatic charging of your card.

    >
    > That's fine, because I also pursued criminal charges - I filed a police
    > complaint (normally I don't do that on a credit-card dispute, but this was
    > a special case). It was $29.95. At that point I pay the $29.95 and let the
    > police make the company's life interesting.
    >
    > And in this case, I did not agree to the automatic charging of my card,

    and
    > even the officer who took my complaint agreed that they have no business
    > keeping a credit card number six months after I've informed them that I am
    > terminating my business relationship with them.
    >
    > If the idiots persist in arguing that I should have been charged, I will
    > ensure that at least one of them ends up in jail and/or fined.
    >
    > --
    > JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    > 22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    > Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    > 888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net


    In fact even if the company keeps your CC on file they actually cannot or
    should not assume they can charge as they will without your permission.
    I keep my CC's on file at Verizon Wireless, Verizon Telephone, etc. and my
    checking account information on file at the gas company and a few charge
    card companies. They have never charged my accounts without permission since
    I will not use auto debit.

    And even with dispute resolution, that is not the same as removing the
    portion that is incorrect and paying the rest. Since they already have your
    MONEY and its harder to get it back, versus getting it in the first place.

    Now if a company makes a payment without *auto debit* or *Auto Pay* then its
    Credit Card Fraud. And then Steve I can see why you would file a police
    report.

    I have never had a problem with payments. And I can say that a few months
    ago with a payment from ACH then my credit card company took double
    payments. But they caught the mistake and sent me an email stating they
    would reverse the payment and would pay any bounce fees if I had any and
    write to anyone that it was their fault. I told Chase I don't just keep a
    few dollars in my account so the double hit would not affect me. But they
    caught the mistake and not me since I don't check that often. Go figure.

    Elector
  7. Elector <elector@my-deja.com> wrote:

    > Now if a company makes a payment without *auto debit* or *Auto Pay* then its
    > Credit Card Fraud. And then Steve I can see why you would file a police
    > report.


    I only did it because this is a company that can't get its head out of its
    ass and I am sure someone at the company is going to insist that they are
    allowed to charge me. This is the first and may very well be the only time
    I ever file a criminal complaint over a credit card charge.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  8. Elector

    Elector Guest

    "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
    news:i5CdnclGU9rJVVmi4p2dnA@lmi.net...
    > Elector <elector@my-deja.com> wrote:
    >
    > > Now if a company makes a payment without *auto debit* or *Auto Pay* then

    its
    > > Credit Card Fraud. And then Steve I can see why you would file a police
    > > report.

    >
    > I only did it because this is a company that can't get its head out of its
    > ass and I am sure someone at the company is going to insist that they are
    > allowed to charge me. This is the first and may very well be the only time
    > I ever file a criminal complaint over a credit card charge.
    >
    > --
    > JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    > 22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    > Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    > 888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net


    At least they will know not to mess with you.
    Brava!!

    Elector
  9. Drew M.

    Drew M. Guest

    They don't control your bank account, but when I checked my credit
    report recently, I found that my Verizon Account was listed! That
    means, if I'm late paying a bill (or dispute a charge), they are in a
    position to mess up my credit score . . . . None of my other non-loan
    utilities or phone companies have a listing on my credit report. Is
    this heavy-handed, or what?

    nospam@home.com (Larry W4CSC) wrote in message news:<3fc0c176.1760081@news.knology.net>...
    > Rule 274 - NEVER talk to CS about money on the phone. Stand directly
    > in front of them at the main Verizon store where they KNOW you can
    > land that punch before discussing, calmly and in a very business-like
    > manner what charges you will pay for and what charges you will not.
    > YOU are the one in control of the checkbook. YOU are the customer and
    > "The customer is always right", ask any real salesman. Verizon is not
    > in control of your bank account.....well, yet.
    >
    > Direct, friendly but FIRM conversation in direct proximity to many
    > other customers who can overhear any nastiness from the company
    > employees is far more effective than this secret, confrontational
    > telephone tag you've been playing. They do NOT want you to "make a
    > scene" at the office in front of those nice folks out front looking at
    > the toyphones and not hooked on a contract, yet.....(c;
    >
    > Be very nice, at first at least, and you'll get that crap straightened
    > out, fast. Don't hesitate to remind them that recurring errors and
    > addon charges will ALWAYS result in your standing right in front of
    > them, next month, ad nauseum, to do it all over again and again.....
    >
    > Do try to space yourself away from the CS counter while you are
    > waiting, though. You never know which irate person ahead of you will
    > finally snap and throw that punch I alluded to. Keep a little space
    > so you don't get any residuals from the fight. Do try not to join in.
    > Resist it. It's hard, I know, but you can do it. Carry a little ball
    > you can squeeze hard to vent anger on. That helps...(c;
    >
    > See ya at the CS counter. I'm the guy with the blue lawn chair and
    > yellow beach umbrella because they took up all the chairs so we'd have
    > to stand. If I've been waiting long, I'll have the big cooler with
    > me. Stop by for a beer and a snack. We'll talk about cellular
    > service and get all worked up while we wait!
    >
    >
    > Larry W4CSC
    >
    > NNNN
  10. Drew M. <drewmcg@usa.com> wrote:
    > They don't control your bank account, but when I checked my credit
    > report recently, I found that my Verizon Account was listed! That
    > means, if I'm late paying a bill (or dispute a charge), they are in a
    > position to mess up my credit score . . . . None of my other non-loan
    > utilities or phone companies have a listing on my credit report. Is
    > this heavy-handed, or what?


    Uh, no.

    It isn't.

    WTF is your problem with being reported late if you pay late? Besides,
    if you pay five or ten or 15 days late it's extremely unlikely they'll report
    it. I don't believe they do the same thing as the credit card companies do,
    where you are likely to get reported even if you're only one day late. But
    why don't you call Verizon, ask for the "Customer financial services" or
    "accounts receivable" department, and ask the people who will know for sure...
    this is based on my personal experiences.

    Go 30 days out or more and I can almost guarantee they'll report it, but a few
    days? probably not...

    The other thing is: if you're paying on time, your credit WILL reflect
    that. On my credit report they're listed as AirTouch but when I went to buy
    a car a little over a year ago, and I'd been paying them on time, it was
    reported as a whole bunch of on-time payments.


    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  11. Not Me

    Not Me Guest

    http://www.bendover.com/default.asp (Ben Dover is a real name)

    http://www.bendover.com/creditreporthelp.asp

    There is a section on dealing with credit card companies and assocated abuse
    but I can't find the url.

    "Drew M." <drewmcg@usa.com> wrote in message
    news:d03d2d27.0311260842.46c18ea@posting.google.com...
    | They don't control your bank account, but when I checked my credit
    | report recently, I found that my Verizon Account was listed! That
    | means, if I'm late paying a bill (or dispute a charge), they are in a
    | position to mess up my credit score . . . . None of my other non-loan
    | utilities or phone companies have a listing on my credit report. Is
    | this heavy-handed, or what?
    |
  12. Not Me <me@privacy.net> wrote:
    > http://www.bendover.com/default.asp (Ben Dover is a real name)
    >
    > http://www.bendover.com/creditreporthelp.asp
    >
    > There is a section on dealing with credit card companies and assocated abuse
    > but I can't find the url.


    Get over yourself. (Both of you.)

    Being reported to the credit bureaus if you are, in fact, paying your bills
    late isn't "abuse."

    It's always been my understanding that regulated utilities typically don't
    report you to the credit bureaus, but I might be wrong about that, or it might
    have changed -

    ....but wireless has never been a regulated utility (in most states, anyhow).


    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  13. Not Me

    Not Me Guest

    | > http://www.bendover.com/default.asp (Ben Dover is a real name)
    | >
    | > http://www.bendover.com/creditreporthelp.asp
    | >
    | > There is a section on dealing with credit card companies and associated
    abuse
    | > but I can't find the url.
    |
    | Get over yourself. (Both of you.)
    |
    | Being reported to the credit bureaus if you are, in fact, paying your
    bills
    | late isn't "abuse."
    |
    | It's always been my understanding that regulated utilities typically don't
    | report you to the credit bureaus, but I might be wrong about that, or it
    might
    | have changed -
    |
    | ...but wireless has never been a regulated utility (in most states,
    anyhow).

    Wrong on all accounts and a false assumption on paying bills late.
    Erroneous reports are illegal under the Fair Credit reporting act. FTC
    takes a dim view of these activities and does get involved abet slowly.

    Being reported for non payment of accounts much less charges that are not
    valid is abuse and counter to federal law. My mother in law died in '94 I'm
    still fighting accounts that were opened years AFTER she died. Seems the
    account holders are selling the past due to other bottom feeders who start
    the entire process all over again. Copies of the death certificate make no
    difference. Regardless it's a nightmare trying to settle her estate.

    Yea I can take legal action but have to pay big bucks in the front. Sue a
    beggar get a louse.

    You're fortunate if you've not been subject to that abuse, for the rest of
    us links to data that can help address the problems are critical.

    If you have noting constructive to add to the discussion please keep it to
    yourself.
  14. Not Me <me@privacy.net> wrote:

    > Being reported for non payment of accounts much less charges that are not
    > valid is abuse and counter to federal law.


    And exactly WHERE did the other guy say that he was being reported for
    fraudulent charges? He *didn't*. He only complained about being reported
    by Verizon. Absent fraudulent charges, there *is* nothing illegal about
    Verizon reporting late payers to the bureaus.


    > My mother in law died in '94 I'm
    > still fighting accounts that were opened years AFTER she died. Seems the
    > account holders are selling the past due to other bottom feeders who start
    > the entire process all over again.


    I'm not surprised. They're scumbags. Of course, that *is* illegal. I've
    taken a look at the website of a law firm that will deal with stuff like
    that (I think they're out in Massachussetts) but I haven't decided whether
    to use them yet.

    > You're fortunate if you've not been subject to that abuse, for the rest of
    > us links to data that can help address the problems are critical.


    I am not arguing that.

    What I am arguing is that we aren't talking about fraudulent charges. Your
    information may be good information, but it isn't relevant to this
    particular discussion.

    > If you have noting constructive to add to the discussion please keep it to
    > yourself.


    You still ignored the original poster's complaint.

    Have a nice day.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  15. On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:15:35 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

    >Drew M. <drewmcg@usa.com> wrote:
    >> They don't control your bank account, but when I checked my credit
    >> report recently, I found that my Verizon Account was listed! That
    >> means, if I'm late paying a bill (or dispute a charge), they are in a
    >> position to mess up my credit score . . . . None of my other non-loan
    >> utilities or phone companies have a listing on my credit report. Is
    >> this heavy-handed, or what?

    >
    >Uh, no.
    >
    >It isn't.
    >
    >WTF is your problem with being reported late if you pay late? Besides,
    >if you pay five or ten or 15 days late it's extremely unlikely they'll report
    >it. I don't believe they do the same thing as the credit card companies do,
    >where you are likely to get reported even if you're only one day late.


    Hell no, they won't. For those who might recall my post here a couple
    of months ago about the friend I co-signed for, she constanly stayed a
    month or more behind, then stiffed me on the final bill (less than
    $50), yet VZW never reported her as delinquent. Of course, my
    decision to finally go in and pay off the balance for her might have
    been the only thing that kept them from doing it.
  16. On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:12:48 -0500, "Not Me" <me@privacy.net> wrote:

    >Being reported for non payment of accounts much less charges that are not
    >valid is abuse and counter to federal law. My mother in law died in '94 I'm
    >still fighting accounts that were opened years AFTER she died. Seems the
    >account holders are selling the past due to other bottom feeders who start
    >the entire process all over again. Copies of the death certificate make no
    >difference. Regardless it's a nightmare trying to settle her estate.


    Something doesn't add up here. Your M-i-L died nine years ago, and
    creditors are still tying up the estate? Did they file false claims
    against the estate when you did the obligatory advertising of the
    estate? When my father died in 1998, there was an account he owed on
    that was several years delinquent. When we ran the ad for 4 weeks as
    required by SC law, telling all creditors to place their claims with
    the court, none did, and certainly not the delinquent one. The estate
    was settled in a matter of months. My mother got everything, the
    delinquent creditor got nothing. She still gets an occasional letter
    from them, but we just throw them in the trash unopened. You don't
    need to fight debt collectors such as the ones you describe. You
    simply ignore them.
  17. The Ghost of General Lee <ghost@general.lee> wrote:

    > Hell no, they won't. For those who might recall my post here a couple
    > of months ago about the friend I co-signed for, she constanly stayed a
    > month or more behind, then stiffed me on the final bill (less than
    > $50), yet VZW never reported her as delinquent. Of course, my
    > decision to finally go in and pay off the balance for her might have
    > been the only thing that kept them from doing it.


    Yup. If you are so late that they end up having to charge off the balance,
    they WILL report it as a charge-off on your credit.

    If you are routinely a few weeks late with your payment, it will affect
    your ability to finance equipment purchases and add lines (your last 6 to
    12 payments must have been on time to qualify for financing), but they check
    the internal payment records to determine that qualification. In such a
    situation, you won't be able to add lines or finance equipment, but it is
    unlikely you'll be reported to the bureaus. (Reported late, at least. I know
    from experience that they report on-time payments to the bureaus, which is
    A Good Thing.)



    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  18. Elector

    Elector Guest

    "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
    news:2ZydneWrfvQgLlWi4p2dnA@lmi.net...
    <snip>
    >(Reported late, at least. I know
    > from experience that they report on-time payments to the bureaus,

    which is
    > A Good Thing.)
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    > 22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    > Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    > 888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net


    Not too sure about that my friend. I am looking at my credit report
    (Experian formally TRW) and it makes no mention of Verizon anything on
    it. Not good or bad. Well it would never show bad since I have never
    missed a payment to them in over 9+ years.

    I know that many years ago when I started with cellular (I was the 403
    customer at Cellular One-ATC which is now Cingular) and they did a
    credit check for service as did Bell Atlantic-NYNEX-Mobile way back
    when I switched to them. But even that is off in 2 years on a credit
    report. Must be only *certain* folks that get that honor. ha ha to
    have it posted to a credit report.

    Elector
  19. Elector <elector@my-deja.com> wrote:

    > Not too sure about that my friend. I am looking at my credit report
    > (Experian formally TRW) and it makes no mention of Verizon anything on
    > it. Not good or bad. Well it would never show bad since I have never
    > missed a payment to them in over 9+ years.


    A little over a year ago I bought a car and the credit report had
    a bunch of ontime payments - but they were listed under AirTouch. OTOH,
    I signed up with Verizon after the merger. I never paid an AirTouch bill.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  20. Elector

    Elector Guest

    "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
    news:damdnQOBkZ9wqleiRVn-hA@lmi.net...
    > Elector <elector@my-deja.com> wrote:
    >
    > > Not too sure about that my friend. I am looking at my credit

    report
    > > (Experian formally TRW) and it makes no mention of Verizon

    anything on
    > > it. Not good or bad. Well it would never show bad since I have

    never
    > > missed a payment to them in over 9+ years.

    >
    > A little over a year ago I bought a car and the credit report had
    > a bunch of ontime payments - but they were listed under AirTouch.

    OTOH,
    > I signed up with Verizon after the merger. I never paid an AirTouch

    bill.
    >
    > --
    > JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    > 22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    > Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    > 888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net



    No airtouch on there either. In fact it lists my cards that I have
    active and a few loans that were paid off years ago. And it also lists
    companies that have requested the report and a few other lists of
    companies that requested it and never seen it. The instruction sheet
    states the *good* stays on forever or until I ask to have it removed
    and any negative stays on for 7-10 years depending on what type of
    report it is. It says a whole lot more but its all garble to me. As
    long as I see a Current I have no problem with TRW or my card/bank
    lists. ha ha

    Elector

Welcome to VerizonForums!

Unfortunately you can't reply until you log in or sign up.


Forgot your password?