1. Welcome to Verizon Forums - the unofficial Verizon community! Have a question about Verizon? Click HERE to get started.
  2. Expecting Cell Phone Forums? We recently moved Verizon specific content to VerizonForums.com. If you previously had an account on CPF, it has been transferred!

Data connectivity speed

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by David Manlief, Oct 25, 2003.

  1. Peter Pan

    Peter Pan Guest

    "David W. Studeman" <eat_your_own_spam@hormel.com> wrote in message
    news:QQ4ob.1471$k73.180669@news.uswest.net...
    > Peter Pan wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > "David W. Studeman" <eat_your_own_spam@hormel.com> wrote in message
    > > news:_3Xnb.65$C22.50158@news.uswest.net...
    > >> Peter Pan wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >
    > >> > "Jeremy" <jeremy@exit109.com> wrote in message
    > >> > news:1067437425.991079@ok-corral.gunslinger.net...
    > >> >> Thomas M. Goethe <xspamgoethe11xxxxxx@lycos.com> wrote:
    > >> >>
    > >> >> >> While a ping will work, you may want to try dialing #777 instead

    of
    > >> > your
    > >> >> >> ISP first, that works for a large number of people and is easy

    > > enough
    > >> > to
    > >> >> >> try.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > You can get Express Network to connect to your ISP? I've only

    > > been
    > >> > able
    > >> >> > to use it with #777. I would appreciate knowing how to make it

    work
    > > as
    > >> >> > I could then dial my company server which places me inside the

    > > firewall
    > >> > where
    > >> >> > I can get to some stuff that isn't available from the outside.

    > > Thanks!
    > >> >>
    > >> >> No, Express Network is only via verizon, with #777. There is no way
    > >> >> to
    > >> >> dial any other ISP with it. (It's not a call like with a modem; it

    > > just
    > >> >> wouldn't work that way.)
    > >> >>
    > >> >> --
    > >> >> Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
    > >> >
    > >> > You don't DIAL any other ISP, you put in the SERVER names off verizon

    > > and
    > >> > set it to never dial a connection automatically. (see the other reply
    > >> > to this note)
    > >>
    > >> Doesn't work that way! His company's servers are not on the internet

    like
    > >> every address you cited above. Many large corps have dial in access via
    > >> modem to the intRAnet and their modem pools are not exposed to the
    > >> intERnet. You cannot simply put in the addresses of the companies email
    > >> servers in whatever client you use and expect access from the internet.
    > >> Those servers he needs are not exposed to the internet. The domain

    names
    > >> inside probably resolve to a class C address via an internal dns server
    > >> in which case they would not work on the internet even if they opened a
    > >> giant hole in the firewall. The only exeption would be incoming email
    > >> through

    > > the
    > >> firewall. Another point is that with #777 which is #PPP on a keypad,

    you
    > >> are still acessing the internet through Verizon and using their network
    > >> to get on the backbone. Sure, you can access any other isp email, ftp

    and
    > >> so on once you are on the backbone but you are not using Earthlink's,
    > >> Comcast's or anyone elses network to be ON the internet so he is

    correct.
    > >> Most CDMA carriers do not restrict what servers you can access. If they

    > > do,
    > >> just find a transparent free proxy at port 3128 in which case, you are
    > >> tunneling via ssh to that proxy so your carrier is not resolving dns,

    the
    > >> proxy is and your carrier only knows that you are sending and receiving
    > >> data, but no clue as to what is in it. If you ever do this, try to use
    > >> one in your country. I recently used a proxy in Italy and went to
    > >> Real.com and they gave me a page in Italian because it resolved to a

    ..it
    > >> domain when Real, unlike most web sites do a "whois" on a numerical ip
    > >> and saw it was in Italy. The only reason I do this is to get around

    image
    > >> compression as

    > > I
    > >> am using a card in a PCMCIA reader in a full PC with a large monitor

    with
    > >> another CDMA carrier who messes with image compression on http only.
    > >> Https and ftp, news and email are not affected by this. They annoy me,

    I
    > >> tunnel around it, simple!
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Dave

    > >
    > >
    > > Well then you probably ought to tell some of the companies I worked for
    > > (Amex, Alltel, Disney, and the SSA come to mind) that have an internet
    > > presence for outsiders, and supervisors (or people on call can get in

    from
    > > elsewhere) can put in a password to get at things behind the firewall on
    > > the corporate intrAnet as if they were in their office or dialed in
    > > directly. At any rate, it costs nothing to try it (calling #777 instead

    of
    > > the direct number), and minimize the connection dropping/restoring.

    >
    >
    > Yes, some companies do have a web presence for employees but his, like
    > Boeing and many others, do not. Nobody is questioning logging in to Data

    as
    > being ON the internet is not at issue. When you dial into an internal

    modem
    > pool, you are NOT using the internet any more than if you call aunt millie
    > in ohio. Whether or not a company has a web presence for Employees to log
    > into depends on how important security to their network is and preference
    > by those in charge. The data at some places is so sensitive that
    > carelessness in safeguarding it could put a company out of business
    > overnight or worse, put people at risk.
    >
    >
    >
    > Dave


    I understand what you mean about a needing a web presence for employees to
    use the companies intrAnet via the internet, but object to your claim that
    "many do not". My experience is that many DO, and it is the small minority
    that do NOT. As a matter of fact I have seen many that have BOTH direct
    dial-in AND a web address. That allows people to work from places that have
    web access but not dial-up (DSL and Cable connected computers are two
    examples I can think of). It doesn't cost anything to call tech support and
    ask if it is feasible.

    At any rate, I was responding to this question:
    > >> >> > You can get Express Network to connect to your ISP? I've only

    > > been
    > >> > able
    > >> >> > to use it with #777. I would appreciate knowing how to make it

    work

    I use it myself all the time to access my ISP (and various company
    websites/intrAnets) and was trying to make it generic enough that other
    people can use the answer also.

    By the way, have you ever used the secure logon for Boeing? Check out
    http://www.boeing.com/special/bpn/network/networkFAQ_netdiagram.htm
    It looks like you can access the Boeing intrAnet via the intErnet.



    › See More: Data connectivity speed
  2. Peter Pan wrote:

    >
    > "David W. Studeman" <eat_your_own_spam@hormel.com> wrote in message
    > news:QQ4ob.1471$k73.180669@news.uswest.net...
    >> Peter Pan wrote:
    >>
    >> >
    >> > "David W. Studeman" <eat_your_own_spam@hormel.com> wrote in message
    >> > news:_3Xnb.65$C22.50158@news.uswest.net...
    >> >> Peter Pan wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> >
    >> >> > "Jeremy" <jeremy@exit109.com> wrote in message
    >> >> > news:1067437425.991079@ok-corral.gunslinger.net...
    >> >> >> Thomas M. Goethe <xspamgoethe11xxxxxx@lycos.com> wrote:
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> >> While a ping will work, you may want to try dialing #777 instead

    > of
    >> >> > your
    >> >> >> >> ISP first, that works for a large number of people and is easy
    >> > enough
    >> >> > to
    >> >> >> >> try.
    >> >> >> >
    >> >> >> > You can get Express Network to connect to your ISP? I've only
    >> > been
    >> >> > able
    >> >> >> > to use it with #777. I would appreciate knowing how to make it

    > work
    >> > as
    >> >> >> > I could then dial my company server which places me inside the
    >> > firewall
    >> >> > where
    >> >> >> > I can get to some stuff that isn't available from the outside.
    >> > Thanks!
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> No, Express Network is only via verizon, with #777. There is no
    >> >> >> way to
    >> >> >> dial any other ISP with it. (It's not a call like with a modem; it
    >> > just
    >> >> >> wouldn't work that way.)
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> --
    >> >> >> Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
    >> >> >
    >> >> > You don't DIAL any other ISP, you put in the SERVER names off
    >> >> > verizon
    >> > and
    >> >> > set it to never dial a connection automatically. (see the other
    >> >> > reply to this note)
    >> >>
    >> >> Doesn't work that way! His company's servers are not on the internet

    > like
    >> >> every address you cited above. Many large corps have dial in access
    >> >> via modem to the intRAnet and their modem pools are not exposed to the
    >> >> intERnet. You cannot simply put in the addresses of the companies
    >> >> email servers in whatever client you use and expect access from the
    >> >> internet. Those servers he needs are not exposed to the internet. The
    >> >> domain

    > names
    >> >> inside probably resolve to a class C address via an internal dns
    >> >> server in which case they would not work on the internet even if they
    >> >> opened a giant hole in the firewall. The only exeption would be
    >> >> incoming email through
    >> > the
    >> >> firewall. Another point is that with #777 which is #PPP on a keypad,

    > you
    >> >> are still acessing the internet through Verizon and using their
    >> >> network to get on the backbone. Sure, you can access any other isp
    >> >> email, ftp

    > and
    >> >> so on once you are on the backbone but you are not using Earthlink's,
    >> >> Comcast's or anyone elses network to be ON the internet so he is

    > correct.
    >> >> Most CDMA carriers do not restrict what servers you can access. If
    >> >> they
    >> > do,
    >> >> just find a transparent free proxy at port 3128 in which case, you are
    >> >> tunneling via ssh to that proxy so your carrier is not resolving dns,

    > the
    >> >> proxy is and your carrier only knows that you are sending and
    >> >> receiving data, but no clue as to what is in it. If you ever do this,
    >> >> try to use one in your country. I recently used a proxy in Italy and
    >> >> went to Real.com and they gave me a page in Italian because it
    >> >> resolved to a

    > .it
    >> >> domain when Real, unlike most web sites do a "whois" on a numerical ip
    >> >> and saw it was in Italy. The only reason I do this is to get around

    > image
    >> >> compression as
    >> > I
    >> >> am using a card in a PCMCIA reader in a full PC with a large monitor

    > with
    >> >> another CDMA carrier who messes with image compression on http only.
    >> >> Https and ftp, news and email are not affected by this. They annoy me,

    > I
    >> >> tunnel around it, simple!
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >> Dave
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Well then you probably ought to tell some of the companies I worked for
    >> > (Amex, Alltel, Disney, and the SSA come to mind) that have an internet
    >> > presence for outsiders, and supervisors (or people on call can get in

    > from
    >> > elsewhere) can put in a password to get at things behind the firewall
    >> > on the corporate intrAnet as if they were in their office or dialed in
    >> > directly. At any rate, it costs nothing to try it (calling #777 instead

    > of
    >> > the direct number), and minimize the connection dropping/restoring.

    >>
    >>
    >> Yes, some companies do have a web presence for employees but his, like
    >> Boeing and many others, do not. Nobody is questioning logging in to Data

    > as
    >> being ON the internet is not at issue. When you dial into an internal

    > modem
    >> pool, you are NOT using the internet any more than if you call aunt
    >> millie in ohio. Whether or not a company has a web presence for Employees
    >> to log into depends on how important security to their network is and
    >> preference by those in charge. The data at some places is so sensitive
    >> that carelessness in safeguarding it could put a company out of business
    >> overnight or worse, put people at risk.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Dave

    >
    > I understand what you mean about a needing a web presence for employees to
    > use the companies intrAnet via the internet, but object to your claim that
    > "many do not". My experience is that many DO, and it is the small minority
    > that do NOT. As a matter of fact I have seen many that have BOTH direct
    > dial-in AND a web address. That allows people to work from places that
    > have web access but not dial-up (DSL and Cable connected computers are two
    > examples I can think of). It doesn't cost anything to call tech support
    > and ask if it is feasible.
    >
    > At any rate, I was responding to this question:
    >> >> >> > You can get Express Network to connect to your ISP? I've only
    >> > been
    >> >> > able
    >> >> >> > to use it with #777. I would appreciate knowing how to make it

    > work
    >
    > I use it myself all the time to access my ISP (and various company
    > websites/intrAnets) and was trying to make it generic enough that other
    > people can use the answer also.
    >
    > By the way, have you ever used the secure logon for Boeing? Check out
    > http://www.boeing.com/special/bpn/network/networkFAQ_netdiagram.htm
    > It looks like you can access the Boeing intrAnet via the intErnet.



    Uh no, that does not give access to the entire intranet, it is mainly to
    link Customer's intranets to allowed services via an allowed provider to
    limited resources they are privvy to and nothing else. There is no question
    that most companies have web acess to some services but since he
    specifically stated that his does not have web access to what he actually
    needs, this is getting silly.





    Dave
  3. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    Peter Pan <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote:

    > At any rate, it costs nothing to try it (calling #777 instead of the
    > direct number), and minimize the connection dropping/restoring.


    There is no such thing as a "direct number" for Express Network. It is
    only #777.

    You can get on the Internet three completely different ways with Verizon
    Wireless. The first is what they call "Mobile Office" or "Quick 2 net" or
    whatever; you dial #777 and the result is a circuit-switched data call
    (uses a voice channel) to Verizon's network. The ISP is Verizon, and
    the speed limit here is 14.4k.

    The second is to dial an ISP directly. You dial the number as a data call;
    a circuit-switched data connection is made, connecting you to a Verizon
    pool of analog modems, one of which dials the number for you and connects
    you to your ISP. You're just using VZW to get you to the ISP. The speed
    limit here is also 14.4k, but the connection and reliability will be worse
    because of the added "leg" in the call and because an analog modem is
    involved.

    The third way is Express Network (now called NationalAccess). This is
    accessed *only* by dialing #777 with 1xRTT-capable equipment (and the
    appropriate init string). In this case, it creates a packet-switched
    data connection to Verizon's network, Verizon is the ISP, and the speed
    limit is 144k (ten times faster than circuit-switched data). It is not
    possible to use Express Network to connect to anyone other than Verizon
    as the ISP.

    None of this has any bearing on server names.

    --
    Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
  4. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    Thomas M. Goethe <xspamgoethe11xxxxxx@lycos.com> wrote:

    > No, we are set up so that you have to dial in and connect through a
    > secure RAS. We do not have VPN set either. You have to dial the number.
    >
    > Allegedly Sprint is adding a modem pool through its Vision service.


    That's what you're going to need, and Verizon doesn't have it for Express
    network at the moment. With Verizon you would have to use a much slower
    and less reliable circuit-switched data call to dial directly into the
    company dialup.

    You must have some pretty bastardly Information Security folks at your
    company. :)

    --
    Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
  5. "Jeremy" <jeremy@exit109.com> wrote in message
    news:1067585875.383644@ok-corral.gunslinger.net...
    > Thomas M. Goethe <xspamgoethe11xxxxxx@lycos.com> wrote:
    >
    > You must have some pretty bastardly Information Security folks at your
    > company. :)
    >


    They are interesting. We may have been the last major newspaper to put
    the Internet on everyone's desk. Email, until about three or four years ago
    was handled by a kludge through an emulation of a mid-80's mainframe
    editorial system. Today we use Lotus Notes or Lotus Webmail, both of which
    are really awful compared to MS or Eudora products.

    We still use that editorial system. For my department to use it (we are
    among the few folks there on Macs) we have to run the emulation of the
    mid-80's mainframe software on a PC emulation on the Mac. The keystrokes get
    pretty hard to remember. When it still ran on dedicated terminals they had
    about 200 keys on some of the editing terminals for different commands.
    There were banks of function keys. Now you have to remember to do an Apple,
    option, shift B for some obscure function. What's really delightful is that
    the keystroke combination depends on what version of Virtual PC and which
    Mac OS you are using. We have several of those just in my one part of the
    operation.

    Setting up a RAS server was an amazing act of openness. There was talk
    of a VPN, but not for most of us.
  6. CharlesH

    CharlesH Guest

    In article <1067585543.119448@ok-corral.gunslinger.net>,
    Jeremy <jeremy@exit109.com> wrote:
    >Peter Pan <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >> At any rate, it costs nothing to try it (calling #777 instead of the
    >> direct number), and minimize the connection dropping/restoring.

    >
    >There is no such thing as a "direct number" for Express Network. It is
    >only #777.
    >
    >You can get on the Internet three completely different ways with Verizon
    >Wireless. The first is what they call "Mobile Office" or "Quick 2 net" or
    >whatever; you dial #777 and the result is a circuit-switched data call
    >(uses a voice channel) to Verizon's network. The ISP is Verizon, and
    >the speed limit here is 14.4k.
    >
    >The second is to dial an ISP directly. You dial the number as a data call;
    >a circuit-switched data connection is made, connecting you to a Verizon
    >pool of analog modems, one of which dials the number for you and connects
    >you to your ISP. You're just using VZW to get you to the ISP. The speed
    >limit here is also 14.4k, but the connection and reliability will be worse
    >because of the added "leg" in the call and because an analog modem is
    >involved.
    >
    >The third way is Express Network (now called NationalAccess). This is
    >accessed *only* by dialing #777 with 1xRTT-capable equipment (and the
    >appropriate init string). In this case, it creates a packet-switched
    >data connection to Verizon's network, Verizon is the ISP, and the speed
    >limit is 144k (ten times faster than circuit-switched data). It is not
    >possible to use Express Network to connect to anyone other than Verizon
    >as the ISP.


    The key point of the above being that in all three cases, the data
    is transmitted as bytes over the air from the phone to the cell site,
    not as tones. In case two, at the VZW switch the data is passed to an
    analog modem which places a normal landline phone call to your ISP and
    converts the data to modem tones; in the other two cases, the data goes
    directly into VZW's internet infrastructure. Note that data calls are
    handled specially by the phone: dialing #777 from the keypad will get
    an error message, and dialing your ISP from the keypad will get
    modem tones, but dialing #777 or a phone number from your computer will be
    handled as a data call as described above.

    If your company insists that you dial in to their modems, you are not
    going to be faster than 14.4Kb; if they provide a secure VPN (Virtual
    Private Network) solution, then you could use Express Network to connect
    to their VPN server at Express Network rates (up to 144Kb).

Welcome to VerizonForums!

Unfortunately you can't reply until you log in or sign up.


Forgot your password?