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Effect on rounding calls up to the next minute!!

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by PG, Sep 11, 2003.

  1. Quick

    Quick Guest

    <davNOLindiSpamatHotmaledotkom (David L)> wrote
    >
    > No number portability, 3 watt handsets and talking while driving use to
    > be industry norms as well.


    3 watt handsets have to do with the technology being employed.
    talking while driving is an *industry* norm??

    > Someone questioned these accepted industry practices, found them not
    > serving customers and now they have been changed, for better or worse.
    >
    > It's ALL negotiable. First it has to come to consumers attention.


    Absolutely. As to bringing it to your attention... putting it in a contract
    isn't good enough?

    > This is usenet and some of us like to understand the way large
    > corporations nickle and dime us a few percentage points at a time.


    uhhh, "us" is the usenet. and yes, the internet is a fine way to
    find out about things. Maybe someone who is considering
    Cell service and has no idea of how its billed will find out
    here. Then again it would probably be a good idea to read
    and understand their contract before signing...

    > Just because everyone does it is no justification. It's the only
    > justification and it effects customers differently. Especially when
    > minute usage overages are ~ $.40. Now there's another nasty little
    > penalty with no justification.


    What?!?! Nobody is trying to justify anything. This is just the way they
    sell their service. They are not robbing you or committing fraud. There
    is nothing wrong with what they are doing. You may want less expensive
    service and thats what anti-trust laws are for.

    overage charges are a "nasty penalty with no justification"? They
    need to plan infrastructure to support the service they sell. This
    is how they do it. If the penalties are too high customers go
    elsewhere. No penalties and they can't guarantee a level of
    quality of service -- customers go elsewhere.

    >
    > Verizon has a whole team of lawyers, advertising execs and bean counters
    > that dream up these intricate ways of separating us from more money.
    > They train a CS force to handle us and well, it seems obvious, there's a
    > need to learn to handle them.


    hey, "RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE"! right? They are the evil
    empire screwing the peasants out of their hard earned dollars.

    >
    > Starting to unravel the way customers are "gamed" is part of being an
    > informed consumer.


    Ahhh. Now you're talking. "informed consumer". This is smart.
    Things like knowing what you are buying is a good thing.

    >
    > What about those of us trying to maximize OUR buying power and
    > influence? And fostering competitive ideas, truth, justice and the
    > American way.


    Absolutely. Tell them what you want and then vote with your dollars.
    Believe it or not, you do have control over your dollars and, believe
    it or not, VZW would like you to spend your dollars with them instead
    of their competitors.

    -Quick



    › See More: Effect on rounding calls up to the next minute!!
  2. Male Bomb

    Male Bomb Guest

    vzwguy2004@yahoo.com (VZW Guy) wrote in article
    <vm3vldqatht4b0@corp.supernews.com>:
    > It's a lot easier and cheaper to bill the the minute, and not the
    > second.


    So with that logic would it be cheaper to bill in 10 minute increments?
    It is all about revenue, iirc something like 20% of minutes are
    wasted by rounding up. This was actually marketing campaign by Aerial a
    small PCS provider years ago. MB

    [posted via phonescoop.com]
  3. Male Bomb

    Male Bomb Guest

    vzwguy2004@yahoo.com (VZW Guy) wrote in article
    <vm4bb0n09kpdce@corp.supernews.com>:
    > Well think about it.. If they billed by the second and not the minute..
    > people would be like "ummm how many seconds did I use" I find it easier
    > to count the minutes I used and not the Seconds I used.. to much hassle.
    > I dont want to worry weth the call I made was 1 minute 15 seconds I
    > would much rather think of it, hmm call was over 1 minute, so I used 2
    > minutes out of my plan.


    Why would you "count" your minutes? Do you really do this? Why not
    just call #BAL?

    [posted via phonescoop.com]
  4. RDAEX

    RDAEX Guest

    And what did Aerial learn from that?
    ....... they learned they were bought by VoiceStream..lol

    --
    This post brought to you by the letters F and U


    malebomb@comcast.net (Male Bomb) wrote in article
    <vm539jgr52erd1@corp.supernews.com>:
    >
    > vzwguy2004@yahoo.com (VZW Guy) wrote in article
    > <vm3vldqatht4b0@corp.supernews.com>:
    > > It's a lot easier and cheaper to bill the the minute, and not the
    > > second.

    >
    > So with that logic would it be cheaper to bill in 10 minute increments?
    > It is all about revenue, iirc something like 20% of minutes are
    > wasted by rounding up. This was actually marketing campaign by Aerial a
    > small PCS provider years ago. MB
    >
    > [posted via phonescoop.com]


    [posted via phonescoop.com]
  5. Male Bomb

    Male Bomb Guest

    Actually that might sell, 30,000 seconds for $35.00 lol. We have some
    local food markets that advertise lunch meat by the half pound and at
    first you think wow this is cheap until you do the math. There is alot
    of psychology in marketing so who knows. MB

    Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in article
    <W7idndV9p-OBuf-iU-KYvw@lmi.net>:
    > VZW Guy <vzwguy2004@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > > understand than by the second, if they billed by the second they would
    > > have to rename price plans to the 30,000 second plan (500 minutes). Get
    > > over it! Thing are they way they are.

    >
    > Uh, that is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
    >
    > --
    > JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
    > 22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    > Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    > 888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net


    [posted via phonescoop.com]
  6. Male Bomb

    Male Bomb Guest

    BLAH@BLAH.COM (RDAEX ) wrote in article
    <vm56olr54sa284@corp.supernews.com>:
    > And what did Aerial learn from that?
    > ....... they learned they were bought by VoiceStream..lol
    >
    > --
    > This post brought to you by the letters F and U
    >


    Just another small company getting swallowed up by a large corporation,
    so what's your point Ryan? MB

    [posted via phonescoop.com]
  7. On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:35:48 GMT, "127.0.0.1"
    <unavailable@spam-me.not> wrote:

    >
    >"Joe Kaffe" <kaffejoe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:6Hp8b.53094$cj1.13864@fed1read06...
    >>
    >> "VZW Guy" <vzwguy2004@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >> news:vm408fapv50n12@corp.supernews.com...
    >> > I'm sitting here reading all these complaints of "why can't they do
    >> > this", "Why Cant they do that".. The simple fact is THEY DONT! so stop
    >> > complaining about it.. It was all of ya'lls CHOICE to get service with
    >> > whichever carrier you are with.. No one held a gun to your head ordering
    >> > you to get a cell phone.. You all knew they billed by the minute, not
    >> > the second! And IMHO I find billing by the MINUTE a lot easier to
    >> > understand than by the second, if they billed by the second they would
    >> > have to rename price plans to the 30,000 second plan (500 minutes). Get
    >> > over it! Thing are they way they are.

    >>
    >> Complaining is one way for customers, or potential customers, to let a
    >> company know they're not getting what they want. If the voice of dissent

    >is
    >> loud enough, heard often enough, and emanates from a large enough base, a
    >> company will change what they offer or suffer the economic consequences in
    >> the marketplace.

    >
    >we should complain to our congressman/woman.
    >rounding up to the minute is the same as charging you extra for unused
    >seconds.


    Write a note to the president president@whitehouse.gov and I'm sure
    he can help you once he decides what to do with the Iraq problem so it
    might take him a few days to get back to you.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    To send an email reply send to
    GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com
  8. On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 03:21:23 -0000, malebomb@comcast.net (Male Bomb)
    wrote:

    >vzwguy2004@yahoo.com (VZW Guy) wrote in article
    ><vm3vldqatht4b0@corp.supernews.com>:
    >> It's a lot easier and cheaper to bill the the minute, and not the
    >> second.

    >
    >So with that logic would it be cheaper to bill in 10 minute increments?
    >It is all about revenue, iirc something like 20% of minutes are
    >wasted by rounding up. This was actually marketing campaign by Aerial a
    >small PCS provider years ago. MB


    The same with send-to-end billing. It's possible to bill from answer
    to disconnect, but it's more economically profitable for the carrier
    to charge send to end.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    To send an email reply send to
    GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com
  9. On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 04:20:37 -0000, BLAH@BLAH.COM (RDAEX ) wrote:

    >nd what did Aerial learn from that?
    >...... they learned they were bought by VoiceStream..lol


    They learned that the extra income was nice.

    Fido in Canada used to charge by exact billing and answer to
    disconnect. They no longer charge exact billing on prepaid but still
    do to the second billing. To my knowledge they are unique in North
    America.

    >
    >--
    >This post brought to you by the letters F and U
    >
    >
    >malebomb@comcast.net (Male Bomb) wrote in article
    ><vm539jgr52erd1@corp.supernews.com>:
    >>
    >> vzwguy2004@yahoo.com (VZW Guy) wrote in article
    >> <vm3vldqatht4b0@corp.supernews.com>:
    >> > It's a lot easier and cheaper to bill the the minute, and not the
    >> > second.

    >>
    >> So with that logic would it be cheaper to bill in 10 minute increments?
    >> It is all about revenue, iirc something like 20% of minutes are
    >> wasted by rounding up. This was actually marketing campaign by Aerial a
    >> small PCS provider years ago. MB
    >>
    >> [posted via phonescoop.com]


    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    To send an email reply send to
    GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com
  10. Ch <chull001@roch.spam.ester.rr.com> wrote:
    > Just a sugestion:
    > They could use computers to do the billing.


    You think they don't?

    There's still an additional cost involved.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  11. Ch <chull001@roch.spam.ester.rr.com> wrote:
    > Yes! If it cost more... then it cost more


    and VZW probably won't end up eating the extra cost.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  12. Ch <chull001@roch.spam.ester.rr.com> wrote:
    > How many people say that they found gas for one dollar, eighty two and nine
    > hundreths cents?


    Let's not go down that road. I used to work for a large oil company and
    a lot of their business practices suck. I think 9/10 pricing is stupid -
    just take that 1.829 gallon of gas and price it at 1.83 - you're not fooling
    anyone.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  13. David S

    David S Guest

    On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:55:05 -0500, Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
    chose to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and
    everything:

    >Tech Man <techman@123.zap> wrote:
    >> are over 1 second past the last full minute, why don't they round down calls
    >> that are less than 1 second before the next full minute? If 1:01=2 minutes, why
    >> not 1:59=1 minute?

    >
    >> The answer to this is, as has been stated by others here, is PROFITS.

    >
    >Um, that's like taking a math class and saying that 1.99 rounds down to
    >1 (mathematically, it doesn't, it rounds up to 2). But I could see rounding,


    Try telling that same math class that 1.01 rounds up to 2. It doesn't, but
    that's how they bill.

    >say, anything less than 1:30 (1.5 minutes) down to one minute, and 1:30
    >or more rounding up to two.


    I think most of us could live with that. Except, of course, for the cell
    companies' accountants.

    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    --
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "A little vagueness goes a long way in this business." - Jerry Brown
  14. David S

    David S Guest

    On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 03:54:12 -0000, malebomb@comcast.net (Male Bomb) chose
    to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:

    >Why would you "count" your minutes? Do you really do this? Why not
    >just call #BAL?


    Because it can be over a day behind and heavily disclaims its accuracy.

    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    --
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "I have more talent in my smallest fart than you have in your entire body."
    - Walter Matthau to Barbra Streisand
  15. Quick

    Quick Guest

    "Group Special Mobile" <look@signature_to.reply> wrote in message
    news:cfc6mv4ggicjf2oair1d6vfqmchuqf3upm@4ax.com...
    > On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 03:21:23 -0000, malebomb@comcast.net (Male Bomb)
    > wrote:
    >
    > >vzwguy2004@yahoo.com (VZW Guy) wrote in article
    > ><vm3vldqatht4b0@corp.supernews.com>:
    > >> It's a lot easier and cheaper to bill the the minute, and not the
    > >> second.

    > >
    > >So with that logic would it be cheaper to bill in 10 minute increments?
    > >It is all about revenue, iirc something like 20% of minutes are
    > >wasted by rounding up. This was actually marketing campaign by Aerial a
    > >small PCS provider years ago. MB

    >
    > The same with send-to-end billing. It's possible to bill from answer
    > to disconnect, but it's more economically profitable for the carrier
    > to charge send to end.


    Users can exploit answer to disconnect. By simply ringing
    and communicating your caller id you have transferred information.
    It essentially amounts free paging service. Some will remember
    why most x.25 providers added connection setup charges to
    usage, time or whatever other billing they were using?

    -Quick
  16. Kramer

    Kramer Guest

    In article <vm4au1rvdevp9d@corp.supernews.com>, vzwguy2004@yahoo.com
    says...
    > becuz they don't.. get over it, its just how they do it.. if ya don't
    > like how they do it, then go to someone who does or just drop service
    > all together.. *YOU* chose to go with the company, *You* knew they
    > billed in 1 minute increments and round up to the next full minute..
    > That is how they run their business. Don;t like it? Leave, very easy.
    >
    >

    You started out this conversation as an illogical ass, now you're just a
    plain ass.
  17. Kramer

    Kramer Guest

    In article <vm4bb0n09kpdce@corp.supernews.com>, vzwguy2004@yahoo.com
    says...
    > Well think about it.. If they billed by the second and not the minute..
    > people would be like "ummm how many seconds did I use" I find it easier
    > to count the minutes I used and not the Seconds I used.. to much hassle.
    > I dont want to worry weth the call I made was 1 minute 15 seconds I
    > would much rather think of it, hmm call was over 1 minute, so I used 2
    > minutes out of my plan.
    >
    >

    Now you're a stupid ass. Your phone can keep track of the minutes. It
    has that built in feature. Oh, it shows seconds too. Oh, well then
    everything would basically be accurate.
  18. Quick wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > Users can exploit answer to disconnect. By simply ringing
    > and communicating your caller id you have transferred information.
    > It essentially amounts free paging service. Some will remember
    > why most x.25 providers added connection setup charges to
    > usage, time or whatever other billing they were using?


    Flashbacks to the college days when we'd call our parents,
    collect, they'd refuse the charges, then call us back. <g>

    Larry
  19. Kramer

    Kramer Guest

    In article <bju02i$obl$2@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, adr5@columbia.edu
    says...
    > In article <vm4bvnra5joh78@corp.supernews.com>, vzwguy2004@yahoo.com says...
    > >its more trouble
    > >than wuts its worth. would you rather have a FULL minutes credited for a
    > >dropped call, or just 1 second?? think about it.

    >
    > It's only trouble to the service provider who makes alot of money if you make
    > short calls. Eventually one of the vendors will get smart and start billing in
    > shorter increments and they will gain customers that way. If they billed in 1
    > second increments, then no one would bother getting credit for dropped calls.
    > Think about it.
    > ------------
    > Alex
    >
    >

    What can you expect from this guy? He's towing the corporate line.
    He's been assimilated. You won't get a full reasoned argument from him.
    He'll just push the emotional buttons here till he shuts this
    conversation down and causes it to die.
  20. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:46:36 GMT, Lawrence Glasser
    <lglasser@spamcop.net> wrote:

    >
    >Flashbacks to the college days when we'd call our parents,
    >collect, they'd refuse the charges, then call us back. <g>
    >
    >Larry


    In the days when LD on the landline was $4/min, we used to play a game
    to get ham friends to get on the radio to chat. We'd place a collect
    person-to-person call to Melvin Schultz, who, of course, wasn't at the
    other end to take the call. The key alerted the guy on the other end
    to turn his ham radio on 3903 Khz LSB where we were waiting for him.
    There's still no charge for no answer....(c;



    Larry W4CSC

    3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
    gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
    conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?

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