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Incoming calls NOT listed...

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by Michael, Dec 19, 2003.

  1. Michael

    Michael Guest

    Why doesn't Verizon list the incoming calls on their bill? I mean they
    certainly have the technology to do this and it would be MUCH easier for a
    customer to analyze their bill to see what's up. I'm wondering if there is a
    reason why Verizon does this since my friend's cellular service lists the
    incoming #'.




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    › See More: Incoming calls NOT listed...
  2. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:51:37 -0500, "Michael"
    <betterthanthis@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

    >Why doesn't Verizon list the incoming calls on their bill? I mean they
    >certainly have the technology to do this and it would be MUCH easier for a
    >customer to analyze their bill to see what's up. I'm wondering if there is a
    >reason why Verizon does this since my friend's cellular service lists the
    >incoming #'.
    >

    I believe your perception of the Verizon Wireless system is a bit in
    error. Verizon is a hodge-podge of systems acquired from various
    previous owners made of amazingly incompatible hardwares and softwares
    dating way back into the 1980s. Some switches are old Motorolas,
    others from other manufacturers. This happens when you buy up systems
    to gain control over territory, as opposed to a company like Sprint
    who started from scratch and built from the ground up.

    My system was bought by GTE Wireless from Cellular One of an old
    Motorola system that, I'm told, is incapable of receiving the caller
    ID in its billing cache. Our bills just say INCOMING, not even a
    number. Our Cellular One system in Charleston also doesn't talk to
    Verizon's former Bell Atlantic system (even the band is different,
    we're on A and Columbia, SC, 90 miles up the road is on B system).
    The Verizon-acquired shop in Raleigh, NC, where our 611 operators are
    located at the old Cellular One system, used to go home about 10PM and
    when you dialled 611 you got a message telling you to call back after
    8AM the next morning when they all showed up for work, again, saving
    Verizon Wireless money. I used to call Verizon's former Bell Atlantic
    operators in Columbia on 888-483-5445 to report outages during the
    night, but she couldn't do anything about it but call some secret
    number as the Bell Atlantic system on B in Columbia had no connections
    to here with foreign equipment to them.

    See why?


    Larry W4CSC

    NNNN
     
  3. Larry W4CSC <noone@home.com> wrote:

    > I believe your perception of the Verizon Wireless system is a bit in
    > error.


    I believe your information is out of date. Not incorrect, but out of date.

    > Verizon is a hodge-podge of systems acquired from various
    > previous owners made of amazingly incompatible hardwares and softwares
    > dating way back into the 1980s. Some switches are old Motorolas,
    > others from other manufacturers. This happens when you buy up systems
    > to gain control over territory, as opposed to a company like Sprint
    > who started from scratch and built from the ground up.


    But everyone is now running either I2K (Eastern half of the US) or Vision
    (Western half of the US). So, they've finally gotten everyone migrated to one
    or the other.

    I don't think it's as hard as it might seem to list the incoming calls. I
    don't know of any carriers that do, which sucks. Especially since people
    pay for detailed billing... I don't on Sprint because they don't charge that
    particular fee, and I don't on Verizon because I never used to and I've been
    grandfathered, but there are plenty of people on VZW and other carriers who
    do. I submit that the information needs to be provided since you're paying
    for the service, and *especially* if you are paying more for detailed bills.

    And - Is your area 1x-capable, and wouldn't they have had to upgrade the old
    outdated switches to get 1x capability?

    And... is 611 working 24 hours down there now?

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Geek In Charge * 888.480.4NET (4638) * sjsobol@JustThe.net
     
  4. Geoff Brozny

    Geoff Brozny Guest

    "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
    news:gfudnSAvyeUqKH6iRVn-vg@lmi.net...

    > But everyone is now running either I2K (Eastern half of the US) or Vision
    > (Western half of the US). So, they've finally gotten everyone migrated to

    one
    > or the other.
    >


    Ohio is still on Omni, they have not moved over to I2K yet, one of my
    customers works in the Dublin facility supporting the Omni system, and is
    not quite sure what is going to happen to his job once they do switch to
    I2K.

    geoff
     
  5. My Verizon Wireless PrePay account lists the incoming numbers.
    ---JRC---

    "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message =
    news:gfudnSAvyeUqKH6iRVn-vg@lmi.net...
    >=20
    > I don't think it's as hard as it might seem to list the incoming =

    calls. I=20
    > don't know of any carriers that do, which sucks. =20
    >=20
    >=20
    > --=20
    >
     
  6. Michael

    Michael Guest

    I would imagine that for the customer's benefit since we are paying premium
    rates we'd like to know who those incoming calls are. We are billed for them
    aren't we? Basically, I can Verizon customer service and bother the hell out
    of them and tell them I received NO CALLS from one date to another date. All
    I see is incoming, which means nothing to me. I bet I'd get out of paying
    for some of these calls due to their incompetent billing system. Before
    camera's and GET IT NOW crap they should have included incoming calls on
    customer's bills. Pathetic company and I can't wait for the day some one
    buys them out!

    "Larry W4CSC" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
    news:3fe3aa74.11603867@news.knology.net...
    > On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:51:37 -0500, "Michael"
    > <betterthanthis@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    > >Why doesn't Verizon list the incoming calls on their bill? I mean they
    > >certainly have the technology to do this and it would be MUCH easier for

    a
    > >customer to analyze their bill to see what's up. I'm wondering if there

    is a
    > >reason why Verizon does this since my friend's cellular service lists the
    > >incoming #'.
    > >

    > I believe your perception of the Verizon Wireless system is a bit in
    > error. Verizon is a hodge-podge of systems acquired from various
    > previous owners made of amazingly incompatible hardwares and softwares
    > dating way back into the 1980s. Some switches are old Motorolas,
    > others from other manufacturers. This happens when you buy up systems
    > to gain control over territory, as opposed to a company like Sprint
    > who started from scratch and built from the ground up.
    >
    > My system was bought by GTE Wireless from Cellular One of an old
    > Motorola system that, I'm told, is incapable of receiving the caller
    > ID in its billing cache. Our bills just say INCOMING, not even a
    > number. Our Cellular One system in Charleston also doesn't talk to
    > Verizon's former Bell Atlantic system (even the band is different,
    > we're on A and Columbia, SC, 90 miles up the road is on B system).
    > The Verizon-acquired shop in Raleigh, NC, where our 611 operators are
    > located at the old Cellular One system, used to go home about 10PM and
    > when you dialled 611 you got a message telling you to call back after
    > 8AM the next morning when they all showed up for work, again, saving
    > Verizon Wireless money. I used to call Verizon's former Bell Atlantic
    > operators in Columbia on 888-483-5445 to report outages during the
    > night, but she couldn't do anything about it but call some secret
    > number as the Bell Atlantic system on B in Columbia had no connections
    > to here with foreign equipment to them.
    >
    > See why?
    >
    >
    > Larry W4CSC
    >
    > NNNN





    ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
    ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
     
  7. Aboutdakota

    Aboutdakota Guest

    Steven J Sobol wrote:
    > Larry W4CSC <noone@home.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I believe your perception of the Verizon Wireless system is a bit in
    >>error.

    >
    >
    > I believe your information is out of date. Not incorrect, but out of date.
    >
    >
    >> Verizon is a hodge-podge of systems acquired from various
    >>previous owners made of amazingly incompatible hardwares and softwares
    >>dating way back into the 1980s. Some switches are old Motorolas,
    >>others from other manufacturers. This happens when you buy up systems
    >>to gain control over territory, as opposed to a company like Sprint
    >>who started from scratch and built from the ground up.

    >
    >
    > But everyone is now running either I2K (Eastern half of the US) or Vision
    > (Western half of the US). So, they've finally gotten everyone migrated to one
    > or the other.
    >
    > I don't think it's as hard as it might seem to list the incoming calls. I
    > don't know of any carriers that do, which sucks.


    Cingular Wireless lists the phone numbers of incoming calls while on the
    Cingular system. Depending upon the roaming partner, incoming calls may
    be listed by number, or may not be. I think it's one of the standards
    for GSM, but it may not be.

    ==AD
     
  8. Geoff Brozny <gbrozny@glorb.columbus.oh.us> wrote:
    >
    >> But everyone is now running either I2K (Eastern half of the US) or Vision
    >> (Western half of the US). So, they've finally gotten everyone migrated to

    > one
    >> or the other.
    >>

    >
    > Ohio is still on Omni, they have not moved over to I2K yet, one of my
    > customers works in the Dublin facility supporting the Omni system, and is
    > not quite sure what is going to happen to his job once they do switch to
    > I2K.


    Heh, they were supposed to have switched over two months ago. Dublin - that
    would be the office on Emerald Center Drive, huh? My bills used to come from
    there -- now they are mailed from an office that apparently sits in a post-
    office box in Irvine. :)

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Geek In Charge * 888.480.4NET (4638) * sjsobol@JustThe.net
     
  9. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 20:36:39 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

    >Larry W4CSC <noone@home.com> wrote:
    >
    >> I believe your perception of the Verizon Wireless system is a bit in
    >> error.

    >
    >I believe your information is out of date. Not incorrect, but out of date.


    It may be. My point is none of the sucked up Verizon companies is
    native. It's a hodge podge of companies patched together by the big
    monster, like an old quilt.
    >
    >> Verizon is a hodge-podge of systems acquired from various
    >> previous owners made of amazingly incompatible hardwares and softwares
    >> dating way back into the 1980s. Some switches are old Motorolas,
    >> others from other manufacturers. This happens when you buy up systems
    >> to gain control over territory, as opposed to a company like Sprint
    >> who started from scratch and built from the ground up.

    >
    >But everyone is now running either I2K (Eastern half of the US) or Vision
    >(Western half of the US). So, they've finally gotten everyone migrated to one
    >or the other.


    Wonder why two? Also, isn't this just the billing system? It
    wouldn't make any difference if this gee whiz biller is getting data
    from a switch that STILL can't tell me what number or look up the name
    of the person who's calling. Mine still reads INCOMING, here.
    >
    >I don't think it's as hard as it might seem to list the incoming calls. I
    >don't know of any carriers that do, which sucks. Especially since people
    >pay for detailed billing... I don't on Sprint because they don't charge that
    >particular fee, and I don't on Verizon because I never used to and I've been
    >grandfathered, but there are plenty of people on VZW and other carriers who
    >do. I submit that the information needs to be provided since you're paying
    >for the service, and *especially* if you are paying more for detailed bills.


    So, we go back to the FCC and have the guys-with-the-guns FORCE them
    to provide the proper data, making it a regulation. Cellular has
    never done anything that costs a penny on their own, just like other
    utilities.
    >
    >And - Is your area 1x-capable, and wouldn't they have had to upgrade the old
    >outdated switches to get 1x capability?


    I suppose there is some 1X here because they are selling that crappy
    PTT service in town. I believe 1X has to work before it will connect,
    right?
    >
    >And... is 611 working 24 hours down there now?
    >

    Not sure. I'll probably be up until midnight, tonight, and will call
    it to see if I can get a live human at midnight.

    Larry W4CSC

    NNNN
     
  10. Geoff Brozny

    Geoff Brozny Guest

    "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
    news:md-dnRrefqiyaH6iRVn-iQ@lmi.net...
    >
    > Heh, they were supposed to have switched over two months ago.


    The servers are there and running, just not being used at the moment for
    anything..

    > Dublin - that would be the office on Emerald Center Drive, huh?


    correct.


    geoff
     
  11. AL

    AL Guest

    I called about this because my Cingular service provides "free" detailed
    billing and lists incoming and outgoing calls. Every single one! Verizon
    says the reason they don't do this is because the government doesn't allow
    it and it is done for "privacy" reasons.

    I like CDMA for technical reasons, but in my testing of Cingular they are
    providing so much more, without backtalk and excuse from CSR's.

    Now detailed billing is free from Cingular, and I can get it from free from
    Vzw by going on-line and looking, but no incoming calls from Vzw. I have
    both on-line from Cingular.

    AL

    "Michael" <betterthanthis@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:3fe380b8_1@127.0.0.1...
    > Why doesn't Verizon list the incoming calls on their bill? I mean they
    > certainly have the technology to do this and it would be MUCH easier for a
    > customer to analyze their bill to see what's up. I'm wondering if there is

    a
    > reason why Verizon does this since my friend's cellular service lists the
    > incoming #'.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet

    News==----
    > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000

    Newsgroups
    > ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption

    =---
     
  12. Larry W4CSC <noone@home.com> wrote:

    > It may be. My point is none of the sucked up Verizon companies is
    > native.


    I know, but *my* point was that as things finally get integrated, this becomes
    less and less of an issue.

    >>But everyone is now running either I2K (Eastern half of the US) or Vision
    >>(Western half of the US). So, they've finally gotten everyone migrated to one
    >>or the other.

    >
    >>And - Is your area 1x-capable, and wouldn't they have had to upgrade the old
    >>outdated switches to get 1x capability?

    >
    > I suppose there is some 1X here because they are selling that crappy
    > PTT service in town. I believe 1X has to work before it will connect,
    > right?


    Yes, VZW PTT runs over 1X CDMA. (there's some alphabet soup for you! yummy.)


    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Geek In Charge * 888.480.4NET (4638) * sjsobol@JustThe.net
     
  13. AL <al145 @ delete.hotmail.com> wrote:
    > I called about this because my Cingular service provides "free" detailed
    > billing and lists incoming and outgoing calls. Every single one! Verizon
    > says the reason they don't do this is because the government doesn't allow
    > it and it is done for "privacy" reasons.


    As I've said before, my argument is "screw them, *I* am paying for the call
    and have the right to know who's calling me, and there is no such thing as
    hiding your caller ID when you call a toll free number that the recipient
    must pay to recieve... and since I'm paying to receive calls, my right to
    know who's costing me money trumps their right to privacy."

    When I call one of VZW's tollfrees, they *will* get Caller ID even if I call
    from my home phone on which I have outgoing CID blocked. That's fine - VZW is
    paying the long distance charges for the call. I pay airtime on calls people
    make to my phone, so they should extend the same courtesy to their customers...


    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Geek In Charge * 888.480.4NET (4638) * sjsobol@JustThe.net
     
  14. CharlesH

    CharlesH Guest

    In article <gfudnSAvyeUqKH6iRVn-vg@lmi.net>,
    Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
    >And - Is your area 1x-capable, and wouldn't they have had to upgrade the old
    >outdated switches to get 1x capability?


    AFAIK, the 1x upgrade involves a software upgrade at the cell site and,
    depending on the existing hardware, possibly some board swaps at the
    cell site. Nothing to do with the switch, let alone the billing system
    behind it.

    There is a big difference in the cost of 2.5G/3G upgrades for CDMA
    carriers vs. the TDMA/GSM carriers, who have to do major hardware
    replacements in both the cell site and of their customers' handsets.
    And going from TDMA to GSM is fun since it requires converting to the
    GSM system infrastructure (roaming, authentication, SIM cards, etc.)
     
  15. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:08:36 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

    >
    >Yes, VZW PTT runs over 1X CDMA. (there's some alphabet soup for you! yummy.)
    >

    You can't confuse me. I used to work for COMMIDEASTFOR, CRUDESFLOT6,
    MFSGA, CNSYD, TRACORESD, EILINST, RCA, etc. Abbreviation City...(c;

    Larry
    METLAB (Code 132.01), QAO (Code 130), CNSYD


    Larry W4CSC

    NNNN
     
  16. David S

    David S Guest

    On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:51:37 -0500, "Michael"
    <betterthanthis@NOSPAMyahoo.com> chose to add this to the great equation of
    life, the universe, and everything:

    >Why doesn't Verizon list the incoming calls on their bill? I mean they
    >certainly have the technology to do this and it would be MUCH easier for a
    >customer to analyze their bill to see what's up. I'm wondering if there is a
    >reason why Verizon does this since my friend's cellular service lists the
    >incoming #'.


    I used to get incoming numbers on my bill, but they changed to putting MY
    number as the "number called" last spring. When I complained about it, they
    said it was for the privacy of the callers (which I think is bullshit
    because the callers aren't VZW's customer, *I* am). If I had been paying
    for detailed billing (I had it free on an old promo), I would have canceled
    it.

    -
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "When they have a man for lunch, they really have him for lunch."
    - Roanld Reagan on developing African nations
     
  17. Larry W4CSC <noone@home.com> wrote:
    > On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:08:36 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    > <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>Yes, VZW PTT runs over 1X CDMA. (there's some alphabet soup for you! yummy.)
    >>

    > You can't confuse me. I used to work for COMMIDEASTFOR, CRUDESFLOT6,
    > MFSGA, CNSYD, TRACORESD, EILINST, RCA, etc. Abbreviation City...(c;


    I wasn't trying to confuse you, W4CSC. :)


    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Geek In Charge * 888.480.4NET (4638) * sjsobol@JustThe.net
     
  18. CharlesH

    CharlesH Guest

    In article <h3rbuvgc9ec9kjnsdjnaggterumm5n3dl8@4ax.com>,
    David S <dwstreeter@att.net> wrote:
    >On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:51:37 -0500, "Michael"
    ><betterthanthis@NOSPAMyahoo.com> chose to add this to the great equation of
    >life, the universe, and everything:
    >
    >>Why doesn't Verizon list the incoming calls on their bill? I mean they
    >>certainly have the technology to do this and it would be MUCH easier for a
    >>customer to analyze their bill to see what's up. I'm wondering if there is a
    >>reason why Verizon does this since my friend's cellular service lists the
    >>incoming #'.

    >
    >I used to get incoming numbers on my bill, but they changed to putting MY
    >number as the "number called" last spring. When I complained about it, they
    >said it was for the privacy of the callers (which I think is bullshit
    >because the callers aren't VZW's customer, *I* am). If I had been paying
    >for detailed billing (I had it free on an old promo), I would have canceled
    >it.


    I agree that the privacy argument is bogus. Why not just post the
    same number in the bill that the caller-id displayed on the phone when
    the call came in? If blocked/not available, then say that.

    The argument that "I am paying for it, so I should see it" has the
    problem that the caller has no way of knowing that their number will
    not be blocked; with 8XX toll-free numbers, it is repeatedly publicized
    that *67 will NOT block it, but there is no way for a caller to know
    that a number is cellular (especially now with number portability).
     
  19. "CharlesH" <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote in message
    news:bs7ibl0mu5@enews4.newsguy.com...

    > I agree that the privacy argument is bogus. Why not just post the
    > same number in the bill that the caller-id displayed on the phone when
    > the call came in? If blocked/not available, then say that.
    >
    > The argument that "I am paying for it, so I should see it" has the
    > problem that the caller has no way of knowing that their number will
    > not be blocked; with 8XX toll-free numbers, it is repeatedly publicized
    > that *67 will NOT block it, but there is no way for a caller to know
    > that a number is cellular (especially now with number portability).
    >


    I'm really struggling to find a legitimate rationale for someone placing a
    call to me and not wanting me to know who it is. The 'right to privacy'
    (which I'm not sure I buy in this case) is blown the second the call is
    connected and a conversation starts. Even telemarketers are being forced to
    unblock their numbers when placing calls (first of the year?).
     
  20. David S

    David S Guest

    On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:36:50 GMT, noone@home.com (Larry W4CSC) chose to add
    this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:

    >On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:08:36 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    ><sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
    >
    >>Yes, VZW PTT runs over 1X CDMA. (there's some alphabet soup for you! yummy.)
    >>

    >You can't confuse me. I used to work for COMMIDEASTFOR, CRUDESFLOT6,
    >MFSGA, CNSYD, TRACORESD, EILINST, RCA, etc. Abbreviation City...(c;


    I can't top that, but I work in AV at NNHS in NCUSD203.

    -
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "Zaphod Beeblebrox, this is a very large drink. Hi." - Zaphod Beeblebrox
     

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