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Just had a look at Verizon

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by hachiroku, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. sms

    sms Guest

    On 1/10/2013 9:22 PM, nobody@nada.com wrote:

    > I had exactly the same experience with Honda Accord. New it was less
    > than one year old used. Last time we bought one we got the Costco
    > price from the dealer and told them that was a good starting point.
    > When they complain they can't make enough at what I'm willing to pay I
    > ask them how much they make if I don't buy a car. Same thing with
    > thier BS fees. I don't pay them, period.


    I was never impressed with the Costco pricing. And they can move things
    around to add on whatever fake fees they like, if they add $100 "doc
    fee" then they need to knock $100 off the base price to compensate. It's
    the out-the-door price that matters.

    Hondas are rather insane when it comes to used car prices, and there's
    enough naive buyers thinking that they have to pay MSRP (or greater) for
    a new Honda that it creates a big market for overpriced used Hondas.

    What I think is really a scam is how the state gets to collect sales tax
    on the same vehicle over and over again. Sell a one year old Honda
    Accord that you paid $20K for to someone that will pay $22K, and the
    state makes out like a bandit.
     



    › See More: Just had a look at Verizon
  2. sms

    sms Guest

    On 1/10/2013 9:23 PM, nobody@nada.com wrote:

    >> Why would anyone buy a year old used car for a higher price that a new
    >> car if it was the same make and model?

    >
    > Who knows but they do, so that's the market.


    The reason is that they are unaware of how much they can buy the new car
    for. You have to realize that not everyone is well informed about how
    the car buying process works, and how depreciation works, as AL has
    demonstrated.

    In my area of the country we have a great many people from countries
    where new car prices are not highly negotiable, and where there are no
    laws preventing manufacturers from forcing dealers to sell the product
    at a fixed price. So these people go to a U.S. dealer, they see the
    window sticker and if they are able to knock a couple of hundred off the
    price then they are confident that they got a great deal.

    The number of brands where used models often sell for more than new
    models is very limited, in my area it's only Toyota/Lexus and
    Honda/Acura. These brands are in high demand by the buyers I described
    earlier. One of my relatives owns a repair shop in San Francisco and he
    will often have people bring in used Hondas and Toyotas that they are
    considering buying for him to check out. If they tell him what they're
    paying, he is often amazed at how high the prices are.
     
  3. AL

    AL Guest

    On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:27:20 -0800, nobody@nada.com wrote:

    >On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:18:04 -0700, AL <AL@AL4516.com> wrote:


    >>I have my doubts there are all that many naive people who actually pay
    >>the sticker price. Any cites on the actual number?

    >
    >Most people, the same ones who pay Verizon prices,


    Some Verizon prices ain't so bad. Using SMS math my line is really
    $40/mo (subsidized smartphone benefit in dollars subtracted from $60)
    and gives me 2GB of data, way more than the minutes I need (by a
    factor of 10), free texting, free roaming, free long distance, and
    free mobile to mobile. Where can I find a better deal including *all*
    of those features and the coverage I need? And please no pauper deals
    making me buy or sell a used phones or making me mess with the hassle
    of adding minutes by a certain date to save a few bucks. Oh, and it
    needs to be a guaranteed price, network, and service level for 2
    years...

    What's good for nobody ain't good for everybody... ;)

    >and don't look at the price, just the payment.


    Yes, that's a point I will have to agree on. To many people the
    monthly payment is what they fixate on. Course getting the best price
    for a car usually means the lowest payment.
     
  4. sms

    sms Guest

    On 1/11/2013 4:10 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    > In article <kcnr33$raj$1@dont-email.me>, Justin <nospam@insightbb.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>> Why would anyone buy a year old used car for a higher price that a new
    >>> car if it was the same make and model?

    >>
    >> Lack of availability

    >
    > Toyota Prius, when gas prices suddenly spike to $4.50.


    If gas spikes up then suddenly there's a run on hybrids and both new and
    used prices skyrocket. So there is still a differential between new and
    used. When gas prices fall back down, there's a glut of hybrids, both
    new and used and prices plunge.

    Also, on used hybrids, you have to take into account the battery
    deterioration that is age-dependent.
     
  5. sms

    sms Guest

    On 1/11/2013 8:54 AM, AL wrote:

    > Some Verizon prices ain't so bad. Using SMS math my line is really
    > $40/mo (subsidized smartphone benefit in dollars subtracted from $60)
    > and gives me 2GB of data, way more than the minutes I need (by a
    > factor of 10)


    Sorry, I didn't realize you were only getting 2GB of data per month for
    $130. It's actually an extra $54.20/month that you're paying then. Over
    the life of a two year contract that's about $1300.
     
  6. sms

    sms Guest

    On 1/11/2013 11:02 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    > In article <kcphi7$bt6$1@dont-email.me>,
    > sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Also, on used hybrids, you have to take into account the battery
    >> deterioration that is age-dependent.

    >
    > Debatable so far.


    Not debatable at all. Both NiMH and Li-Ion batteries deteriorate over
    time, Li-Ion more rapidly than NiMH.

    What Toyota does is to never fully discharge or fully charge the battery
    packs to maximize battery life at the expense of MPG. Honda issued a
    software update that worsened MPG by doing essentially the same thing
    Toyota is doing because they were seeking to increase battery life.

    On early Priuses in Europe, there was a button you could press to
    discharge the battery further than normal, and U.S. owners were
    installing these as well (which voided the warranty on the battery).
     
  7. Re: Subsidized cell phones (was Re: Just had a look at Verizon)

    On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 08:14:52 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    wrote:

    >On 1/10/2013 6:24 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    >
    ><snip>
    >
    >> John Legere, T-Mobile CEO:
    >>
    >> On How We Buy Phones: "If you landed from Mars on this planet and you
    >> looked at the way people sell to customers in this industry, you would
    >> go back to where you came from. The CEO of Verizon said in one of his
    >> quotes, 'I'm just not sure the world is ready for $700 iPhones.' Are you
    >> kidding me? That's how much they cost! That's why you're in prison for
    >> multiple years!"

    >
    >People are not ready for $700 "all at once" iPhones. They are willing
    >and ready for $1000-1400 iPhones when you collect $200 when the get the
    >phone, then an extra $40-60/month for 20 months (at which point it all
    >starts over again). Of course it's not fair to pick only on the iPhone,
    >it's the same thing with other high-end smart phones.


    If they do it this way they are quite likely to do it. Here's the new
    Straight Talk/Walmart plan for iPhone5:

    "Straight Talk will offer the 16 GB version of the phone for $650. It
    will work with a monthly $45 plan that includes unlimited talk, text
    and data.

    The 8 GB iPhone 4 will also be available for $450. Customers who
    purchase either of the phones in the store can finance it and pay an
    additional $25 per month for their device. For the iPhone 5, those
    payments would last 26 months."

    So the plan with phone is $70 for 26 months and $45 after that (and no
    or low taxes depending on your state). Still far less that the AT&T
    route for a contract.

    >
    >But here's the rub: if the carriers didn't do this, the price of the
    >phones would quickly fall because there would be no market for $700
    >smart phones, and based on the cost of producing these phones, the
    >retail price would fall to about $400. You saw what happened with the
    >first iPhone which was unsubsidized; Apple dropped the price from $600
    >to $400 two months after its introduction because sales of the iPhone at
    >$600 were not meeting their expectations. It's both the phone
    >manufacturers and the carriers that are highly dependent on the subsidy
    >model.
    >
    >> On Subsidized Phones: "You are paying every penny for their phones.

    >
    >Actually you're paying far more than that.
    >
    >I have my doubts about the success of T-Mobile's plan. First, there are
    >far too many customers that can't do the math, they look solely at the
    >initial outlay and not the long term cost. Second, far too many
    >customers understand the difference in coverage between T-Mobile versus
    >Verizon and AT&T, which at least out west are _enormous_, with T-Mobile
    >having no coverage at all in vast areas (unless you count 911 coverage
    >on AT&T). Third, T-Mobile does not have 4G LTE service yet.


    My experience with T-Mobile stores is that they are doing the math for
    you and since they will let you pay off the phone with the subsidized
    price down and $15 a month for 20 months.

    I use the T-Mobile $30 a month plan and keep my older LG feature phone
    in the glove box (on Page Plus for $30 a year) for roaming if needed
    (and to date never used it). And I'm in the southwest.

    T-Mobile's LTE is eminent and my Nexus 4 should support it.
     
  8. Re: Subsidized cell phones (was Re: Just had a look at Verizon)

    On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:29:05 +0000 (UTC), Justin
    <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:

    >Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote on [Thu, 10 Jan 2013 09:24:00 -0500]:
    >> On How We Buy Phones: "If you landed from Mars on this planet and you
    >> looked at the way people sell to customers in this industry, you would
    >> go back to where you came from. The CEO of Verizon said in one of his
    >> quotes, 'I'm just not sure the world is ready for $700 iPhones.' Are you
    >> kidding me? That's how much they cost! That's why you're in prison for
    >> multiple years!"

    >
    >Another part of the problem. Since the $700 phone costs are hidden in
    >the contract, price competition for them is non-existant. If people were
    >being charged full price upon purchase you can bet the whole system of
    >priced would be much different.



    It's the same as buying a car for MSRP or close to it, because they
    only look at the payments. You'd be surprised how many people do that.
     
  9. Re: Subsidized cell phones (was Re: Just had a look at Verizon)

    On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 12:30:29 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    wrote:

    >On 1/10/2013 11:38 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    >> In article <kcmq8h$aib$1@dont-email.me>, Justin <nospam@insightbb.com>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote on [Thu, 10 Jan 2013 09:24:00 -0500]:
    >>>> On How We Buy Phones: "If you landed from Mars on this planet and you
    >>>> looked at the way people sell to customers in this industry, you would
    >>>> go back to where you came from. The CEO of Verizon said in one of his
    >>>> quotes, 'I'm just not sure the world is ready for $700 iPhones.' Are you
    >>>> kidding me? That's how much they cost! That's why you're in prison for
    >>>> multiple years!"
    >>>
    >>> Another part of the problem. Since the $700 phone costs are hidden in
    >>> the contract, price competition for them is non-existant. If people were
    >>> being charged full price upon purchase you can bet the whole system of
    >>> priced would be much different.

    >>
    >> oooo, you mean like health care.

    >
    >No.
    >
    >Insurance companies and Medicare do a pretty good job in negotiating
    >rates with health care providers as well as denying coverage for what
    >they deem as unnecessary. The only ones paying full price are those
    >without insurance AND that have the means to pay. The rates are higher
    >than necessary for everyone because of all uninsured that can't or won't
    >pay for the care they receive.
    >
    >What really drives up health care costs is a) all the uninsured
    >individuals that don't pay for the services they receive and b) the
    >administrative costs and profits of the insurance companies.
    >
    >Romney recognized the problems with the moochers when he created
    >Romney-Care in Massachusetts, as did Obama when he created Obama-Care.
    >By contrast, Reagan required that hospitals not turn away anyone from
    >ERs, but the entire burden of charity care fell on the hospitals.



    Hospitals are culpable in all this too, and make themselves look like
    crooks by overreaching. I was in a hospital for 4 hours for
    arthroscopic knee surgery. The hospital bill at their "regular" prices
    was over $12,000. My insurance company rate was about 10% of that.
     
  10. On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:18:50 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    wrote:

    >On 1/11/2013 4:10 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    >> In article <kcnr33$raj$1@dont-email.me>, Justin <nospam@insightbb.com>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>> Why would anyone buy a year old used car for a higher price that a new
    >>>> car if it was the same make and model?
    >>>
    >>> Lack of availability

    >>
    >> Toyota Prius, when gas prices suddenly spike to $4.50.

    >
    >If gas spikes up then suddenly there's a run on hybrids and both new and
    >used prices skyrocket. So there is still a differential between new and
    >used. When gas prices fall back down, there's a glut of hybrids, both
    >new and used and prices plunge.
    >
    >Also, on used hybrids, you have to take into account the battery
    >deterioration that is age-dependent.


    Only if you keep them a very long time. For the Prius:

    In the US, the entire hybrid system (which includes the hybrid battery
    pack) is warrantied for 8 years/100,000 miles.

    If you are in a California-emission state, the hybrid battery pack in
    a 2004-2009 Prius is further covered under the CA emissions warranty
    for 10 years/150,000 miles.
     
  11. On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:16:22 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    wrote:

    >On 1/10/2013 9:22 PM, nobody@nada.com wrote:
    >
    >> I had exactly the same experience with Honda Accord. New it was less
    >> than one year old used. Last time we bought one we got the Costco
    >> price from the dealer and told them that was a good starting point.
    >> When they complain they can't make enough at what I'm willing to pay I
    >> ask them how much they make if I don't buy a car. Same thing with
    >> thier BS fees. I don't pay them, period.

    >
    >I was never impressed with the Costco pricing. And they can move things
    >around to add on whatever fake fees they like, if they add $100 "doc
    >fee" then they need to knock $100 off the base price to compensate. It's
    >the out-the-door price that matters.


    That's why I use the Costco price as the starting point. It skips the
    first round of the negotiation. I will not pay fees that are added at
    the end and I tell them that up front. I want the price that includes
    everything but sales tax.
    >
    >Hondas are rather insane when it comes to used car prices, and there's
    >enough naive buyers thinking that they have to pay MSRP (or greater) for
    >a new Honda that it creates a big market for overpriced used Hondas.
    >

    We're still driving two ten year old Hondas, and I occasinally check
    the Kelly Blue Book fr the values. It's crazy how high they are,
    especially withour low mileage, which is why we are still driving
    them. So far we have bought tires, batteries, and fluid/filter changes
    and they just keep running.

    >What I think is really a scam is how the state gets to collect sales tax
    >on the same vehicle over and over again. Sell a one year old Honda
    >Accord that you paid $20K for to someone that will pay $22K, and the
    >state makes out like a bandit.


    How else can the state (CA in my case) pay salaries 30% higher than
    the private sector and give such gold plated benefits?
     
  12. On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:07:08 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
    <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

    >In article <kcn4se$lfu$1@dont-email.me>,
    > sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
    >
    >> On 1/10/2013 10:52 AM, AL wrote:
    >> > On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 09:18:12 -0500, Bruno Puntz Jones <Somewhere in
    >> > yer dreams.com> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> New cars. WOW, easy monthly payments. Sign here.
    >> >
    >> > Buying a new car is never a good deal even when paying cash.

    >>
    >> Depends on the vehicle. For some vehicles, the used prices are so high
    >> that a new vehicle makes more sense considering the extra resale value
    >> from a later model year as well as the longer warranty coverage.
    >> .......
    >> .......
    >> Now if you're buying a car with terrible resale value then a used car
    >> can make sense.

    >
    >The general rule of thumb is, buy Japanese cars new and American cars
    >two years used.


    Or Japanese cars new and American cars not at all. My last American
    car was a 1969 Olds Cutlass, bought new. Traded it in 1971 for Toyota
    Corona and have never looked back.
     
  13. Re: Subsidized cell phones (was Re: Just had a look at Verizon)

    On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 06:07:50 -0700, Todd Allcock
    <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:

    >At 10 Jan 2013 09:24:00 -0500 Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    >> In article <mcgte8td2rtlus66idb6ic9i1dktg8oj5l@4ax.com>,
    >> Bruno Puntz Jones <Somewhere in yer dreams.com> wrote:
    >>
    >> > Today, if one is smart, they read the fine print, or like me,
    >> > have a lawyer read it. I was amazed how many car contracts
    >> > she told me to avoid. Verizon has (acc to her) about the best
    >> > phone fine print, but they all are designed to drip $ out of the
    >> > consumer faster then $ can be printed. And the consumer just
    >> > laps it up, all 'pre-flush'. I pay cash for my cars, maybe I'm in
    >> > a spot to do so where others are not. Yet the cell phone folks
    >> > ended that chance. Here's the new plan, unlike the old one.

    >>
    >> Some good reading on the subject:
    >>
    >> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2414069,00.asp
    >>
    >> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/09/us-ces-tmobileusa-

    >idUSBRE908064
    >> 20130109?irpc=932
    >>
    >> John Legere, T-Mobile CEO:
    >>
    >> On How We Buy Phones: "If you landed from Mars on this planet and you
    >> looked at the way people sell to customers in this industry, you would
    >> go back to where you came from. The CEO of Verizon said in one of his
    >> quotes, 'I'm just not sure the world is ready for $700 iPhones.' Are

    >you
    >> kidding me? That's how much they cost! That's why you're in prison for
    >> multiple years!"
    >>
    >> On Subsidized Phones: "You are paying every penny for their phones. You
    >> are not getting a $99 phone. Anyone who thinks they are, come with me
    >> into the back. While you're handcuffed, they go into your pockets and
    >> they take your money."

    >
    >Of course the irony in the statements made by the T-Mo CEO is that T-Mo
    >isn't ending the handcuffing of contracts, only the subsidies! T-Mo will
    >still require two-year contracts, but claims they're in lieu of the lower
    >monthly rates instead of the phone subsidies.


    And you can get essentially the same T-Mobile plan (unlimited tal and
    text, 2GB 4G data) from Straight Talk for $45 a month with no taxes
    and no contract. So how can T-Mobile sell it to ST for less than $45
    and still want to charge me $60 plus tax.

    If you BYOP, there is no annual contract for the Value Plans. The
    contract if you get the phone financed by them is to collect the $15 a
    month for the phone. I haven't looked at the contract, but I would
    assume that if you pay off the phone early there is no more contract
    for service.
     
  14. sms

    sms Guest

    Re: Subsidized cell phones (was Re: Just had a look at Verizon)

    On 1/11/2013 11:54 AM, nobody@nada.com wrote:

    > If they do it this way they are quite likely to do it. Here's the new
    > Straight Talk/Walmart plan for iPhone5:
    >
    > "Straight Talk will offer the 16 GB version of the phone for $650. It
    > will work with a monthly $45 plan that includes unlimited talk, text
    > and data.
    >
    > The 8 GB iPhone 4 will also be available for $450. Customers who
    > purchase either of the phones in the store can finance it and pay an
    > additional $25 per month for their device. For the iPhone 5, those
    > payments would last 26 months."
    >
    > So the plan with phone is $70 for 26 months and $45 after that (and no
    > or low taxes depending on your state). Still far less that the AT&T
    > route for a contract.


    It is a lot less for an individual phone. Where Verizon and AT&T begin
    to make sense is if you're on a family plan with four phones taking full
    advantage of the maximum subsidy every 20 months. It's still a slight
    savings to use an MVNO, but it's not as enormous a savings as with a
    single line.

    "The thing" is that in a family of users the need for specific amounts
    of minutes and texts varies widely and paying for unlimited for everyone
    is expensive. My friend just ported three lines from AT&T to Pageplus
    and bought three "Excellent" condition Droid phones from Digicircle. He
    doesn't need huge amounts of data (or voice or text) but he wanted smart
    phones and Page Plus was the only way to get them on a relatively small
    plan (two $12 plans, one $29.95 plan).
     
  15. sms

    sms Guest

    On 1/11/2013 12:38 PM, nobody@nada.com wrote:

    > We're still driving two ten year old Hondas, and I occasinally check
    > the Kelly Blue Book fr the values. It's crazy how high they are,
    > especially withour low mileage, which is why we are still driving
    > them. So far we have bought tires, batteries, and fluid/filter changes
    > and they just keep running.


    You're very lucky that you haven't had the ubiquitous automatic
    transmission problems, or maybe your Hondas are stick shift.

    > How else can the state (CA in my case) pay salaries 30% higher than
    > the private sector and give such gold plated benefits?


    Well when the economy was doing well and the private sector people were
    making big bucks no one was complaining about that. I don't see salaries
    that are higher than the private sector but the benefits are very good.
     
  16. sms

    sms Guest

    Re: Subsidized cell phones (was Re: Just had a look at Verizon)

    On 1/11/2013 11:56 AM, nobody@nada.com wrote:

    <snip>

    > It's the same as buying a car for MSRP or close to it, because they
    > only look at the payments. You'd be surprised how many people do that.


    The salespeople are well trained.

    It's always amusing to read about someone that thinks that if they go in
    and pay cash that they're going to get a great deal. In reality the
    dealer doesn't really like those customers. Not only because the dealer
    loses the kickback from the finance company, but because the cash
    customer is more likely to have a good idea of a fair price and is less
    likely to buy an extended warranty, fabric guard, paint protectant,
    after-market alarm, digital ash trays, etc.

    There's also the customers that think the invoice price is what the
    dealer actually paid the factory for the vehicle, and think that they
    are getting a spectacular deal if they pay anything under invoice.

    A lot of dealers have apparently calculated that they can make their
    money on warranties, undercoating, alarms, financing, etc., on enough
    customers for them to advertise very low selling prices and sell a few
    cars at only a few hundred dollars over their cost. It's in the finance
    department where the dealer makes the big bucks.
     
  17. Lars

    Lars New Member

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    On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:16:22 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    wrote:

    >What I think is really a scam is how the state gets to collect sales tax
    >on the same vehicle over and over again. Sell a one year old Honda
    >Accord that you paid $20K for to someone that will pay $22K, and the
    >state makes out like a bandit.


    In Mass, they say you are selling a item that you own, and then the
    next owner thus owns it, and if they sell it, it's a new resold item.

    Cars & land/houses are the only things here that re-grip taxes like
    that, esp 'excise' tax. I live in 'Tax-a chusetts' folks. Big time.


    JJTj




    *> SENT FROM CELL MACNAMB DOCK2# MNHGOAMDJYTSRRFBGHM <*
    *> DATE REPLY MODEFINE GIGANEWS KINBGHGHNYHFYS-76FG42G<*
     
  18. Lars

    Lars New Member

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    On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 11:33:11 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    wrote:

    >> Debatable so far.


    Bullshit..forget the battery..

    I run for day to day use, a 2002 Linc town car, with
    so many bells n jokes, it's laughable. FWD, 8cld,
    does the job, great inside, 8 cd changer..20 mpg.

    Yet the day the toys start to fault, the cost to fix the
    ones needed to make the car run will far out weigh the
    worth of the car. Ditto ya battery, IMHO, by the time ya
    battery dies, the car will cost so much to fix, the battery
    might be worth more then the shell. Cars have always
    been stripped for parts. Steal ya car, grab the battery,
    jump in a van. Ya 'green' car is molding real real fast.

    My Town car cost $3k. Another k 2 run 4 2 years.

    Steal it...who cares. It's insured for more then the above.

    As far as those 'green' cars... :

    "..take that progress and stick it under a rock.." (FZ)

    JJTj



    *> SENT FROM CELL MACNAMB DOCK2# MNHGOAMDJYTSRRFBGHM <*
    *> DATE REPLY MODEFINE GIGANEWS KINBGHGHNYHFYS-76FG42G<*
     
  19. Todd Allcock

    Todd Allcock Guest

    Re: Subsidized cell phones (was Re: Just had a look at Verizon)

    At 11 Jan 2013 12:50:07 -0800 nobody@nada.com wrote:
    > On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 06:07:50 -0700, Todd Allcock
    > <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
    >
    > >At 10 Jan 2013 09:24:00 -0500 Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    > >> In article <mcgte8td2rtlus66idb6ic9i1dktg8oj5l@4ax.com>,
    > >> Bruno Puntz Jones <Somewhere in yer dreams.com> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > Today, if one is smart, they read the fine print, or like me,
    > >> > have a lawyer read it. I was amazed how many car contracts
    > >> > she told me to avoid. Verizon has (acc to her) about the best
    > >> > phone fine print, but they all are designed to drip $ out of the
    > >> > consumer faster then $ can be printed. And the consumer just
    > >> > laps it up, all 'pre-flush'. I pay cash for my cars, maybe I'm in
    > >> > a spot to do so where others are not. Yet the cell phone folks
    > >> > ended that chance. Here's the new plan, unlike the old one.
    > >>
    > >> Some good reading on the subject:
    > >>
    > >> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2414069,00.asp
    > >>
    > >> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/09/us-ces-tmobileusa-

    idUSBRE90806420130109?irpc=932
    > >>
    > >> John Legere, T-Mobile CEO:
    > >>
    > >> On How We Buy Phones: "If you landed from Mars on this planet and

    you
    > >> looked at the way people sell to customers in this industry, you

    would
    > >> go back to where you came from. The CEO of Verizon said in one of

    his
    > >> quotes, 'I'm just not sure the world is ready for $700 iPhones.' Are

    > >you
    > >> kidding me? That's how much they cost! That's why you're in prison

    for
    > >> multiple years!"
    > >>
    > >> On Subsidized Phones: "You are paying every penny for their phones.

    You
    > >> are not getting a $99 phone. Anyone who thinks they are, come with

    me
    > >> into the back. While you're handcuffed, they go into your pockets

    and
    > >> they take your money."

    > >
    > >Of course the irony in the statements made by the T-Mo CEO is that T-Mo
    > >isn't ending the handcuffing of contracts, only the subsidies! T-Mo

    will
    > >still require two-year contracts, but claims they're in lieu of the

    lower
    > >monthly rates instead of the phone subsidies.

    >
    > And you can get essentially the same T-Mobile plan (unlimited tal and
    > text, 2GB 4G data) from Straight Talk for $45 a month with no taxes
    > and no contract. So how can T-Mobile sell it to ST for less than $45
    > and still want to charge me $60 plus tax.
    >
    > If you BYOP, there is no annual contract for the Value Plans. The
    > contract if you get the phone financed by them is to collect the $15 a
    > month for the phone. I haven't looked at the contract, but I would
    > assume that if you pay off the phone early there is no more contract
    > for service.



    Value plans require two year contracts whether you bring your own phone
    or not. It's the "Monthly 4G" (prepaid) plans that have no contract, but
    they offer less data than a Value Plan (they're "unlimited", but throttle
    you back to 2G speeds much sooner than comparably priced Value plans.)
     
  20. AL

    AL Guest

    On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:25:50 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    wrote:

    >On 1/11/2013 8:54 AM, AL wrote:
    >
    >> Some Verizon prices ain't so bad. Using SMS math my line is really
    >> $40/mo (subsidized smartphone benefit in dollars subtracted from $60)
    >> and gives me 2GB of data, way more than the minutes I need (by a
    >> factor of 10)

    >
    >Sorry, I didn't realize you were only getting 2GB of data per month for
    >$130. It's actually an extra $54.20/month that you're paying then. Over
    >the life of a two year contract that's about $1300.


    No, it's 2 GB for $40/mo. We're still comparing 1 line to 1 line,
    right?. And did you figure in my extra roaming charges? Also I
    average around 300 MB per phone per month so like I don't need
    unlimited minutes because of my usage, likewise I don't need any more
    data capacity. Recompute... ;)

    (The $130/mo is for 2 lines and gets me 4GB of data.)
     

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