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Just had a look at Verizon

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by hachiroku, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. AL

    AL Guest

    On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:00:56 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
    <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

    >In article <jcf0f89nqaf9j2alh6gb0mkc312e0h65oo@4ax.com>,
    > AL <AL@AL4516.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Using SMS math my line is really
    >> $40/mo (subsidized smartphone benefit in dollars subtracted from $60)
    >> and gives me 2GB of data, way more than the minutes I need (by a
    >> factor of 10), free texting, free roaming, free long distance, and
    >> free mobile to mobile. Where can I find a better deal including *all*
    >> of those features and the coverage I need?

    >
    >Why would anyone buy things that he doesn't need or use?
    >It may give you the warm tingly feeling to know that you HAVE the
    >features, but it's ridiculous if you don't use them.


    Huh? I use all those features. Which one did I say I didn't use?

    >Of course, that's what VZW and all its marketing is betting on: people
    >who go ahead and throw lots of money at a situation as insurance against
    >having any problem whatsoever,


    You can't blame Verizon for trying. They're in business to make a
    profit after all.

    >rather than people who buy what they need
    >and deal with the occasional inconvenience now and then.


    People who make their own money should be able to spend/ waste it
    however they like. I may like Cadillacs and you may like Yugos, but
    there's room in the country for both of us.

    >We're a nation of pussies.


    Now that's a nasty crack... ;)
     



    › See More: Just had a look at Verizon
  2. AL

    AL Guest

    On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:36:22 +0000 (UTC), Justin
    <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:

    >> In the US, the entire hybrid system (which includes the hybrid battery
    >> pack) is warrantied for 8 years/100,000 miles.

    >
    >100,000 miles is just over 3 years in my book


    My 2004 Buick has just over 24000 miles. No hybrids for me...
     
  3. sms

    sms Guest

    On 1/11/2013 6:20 PM, AL wrote:

    >> Sorry, I didn't realize you were only getting 2GB of data per month for
    >> $130. It's actually an extra $54.20/month that you're paying then. Over
    >> the life of a two year contract that's about $1300.

    >
    > No, it's 2 GB for $40/mo.


    In a previous post you wrote: "My Verizon bill without a subsidized
    phone is $130." Where did the $40/month come from?
     
  4. AL

    AL Guest

    On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:02:13 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
    <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

    >In article <kcphi7$bt6$1@dont-email.me>,
    > sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Also, on used hybrids, you have to take into account the battery
    >> deterioration that is age-dependent.

    >
    >Debatable so far.


    And deterioration due to summer heat in the southwest deserts? Leaving
    a cell phone on the dashboard here for any length of time pretty much
    destroys the battery. I'm waiting to see how long the hybrid batteries
    will take our heat. Even the tough old lead acid batteries have a
    shortened life from the excessive heat.
     
  5. AL

    AL Guest

    On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 18:36:40 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    wrote:

    >On 1/11/2013 6:20 PM, AL wrote:
    >
    >>> Sorry, I didn't realize you were only getting 2GB of data per month for
    >>> $130. It's actually an extra $54.20/month that you're paying then. Over
    >>> the life of a two year contract that's about $1300.

    >>
    >> No, it's 2 GB for $40/mo.

    >
    >In a previous post you wrote: "My Verizon bill without a subsidized
    >phone is $130.


    I have 2 lines with the features I listed earlier at $30/mo = $60/mo
    I have two 2GB data packages at $30/mo = $60/mo
    Wife has text at $10/mo ( I use free GV for texting on my line.)
    Total = $130/mo

    Currently I have 2 subsidized phones. And that bill would be $130/mo
    whether I had 1, 2, or no subsidized phones. So the above statement is
    quite true.

    > Where did the $40/month come from?


    I figured it's better to compare carriers using one line of service
    because most of the quotes I see here are for one line.

    My one line totals $60/mo. Then I used your math and estimated the new
    iPhone subsidy on my line at $20/mo. So my actual phone service cost
    is actually $40/mo.

    That would be a more accurate figure to compare with the
    bring-your-own-phone carriers, don't you think?
     
  6. Justin

    Justin Guest

    AL wrote on [Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:32:16 -0700]:
    > On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:36:22 +0000 (UTC), Justin
    > <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:
    >
    >>> In the US, the entire hybrid system (which includes the hybrid battery
    >>> pack) is warrantied for 8 years/100,000 miles.

    >>
    >>100,000 miles is just over 3 years in my book

    >
    > My 2004 Buick has just over 24000 miles. No hybrids for me...


    My 2007 Toyota has almost 190,000 miles on it.
     
  7. On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:36:22 +0000 (UTC), Justin
    <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:

    >nobody@nada.com wrote on [Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:27:34 -0800]:
    >> On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:18:50 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On 1/11/2013 4:10 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    >>>> In article <kcnr33$raj$1@dont-email.me>, Justin <nospam@insightbb.com>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Why would anyone buy a year old used car for a higher price that a new
    >>>>>> car if it was the same make and model?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Lack of availability
    >>>>
    >>>> Toyota Prius, when gas prices suddenly spike to $4.50.
    >>>
    >>>If gas spikes up then suddenly there's a run on hybrids and both new and
    >>>used prices skyrocket. So there is still a differential between new and
    >>>used. When gas prices fall back down, there's a glut of hybrids, both
    >>>new and used and prices plunge.
    >>>
    >>>Also, on used hybrids, you have to take into account the battery
    >>>deterioration that is age-dependent.

    >>
    >> Only if you keep them a very long time. For the Prius:
    >>
    >> In the US, the entire hybrid system (which includes the hybrid battery
    >> pack) is warrantied for 8 years/100,000 miles.

    >
    >100,000 miles is just over 3 years in my book


    Then you have to factor in the fuel savings and compare with the
    battery costs.

    Personally I'm not a fan of hybrids. You still have to maintain a gas
    engine and also an electrical one. The Europeans favor clean diesel -
    same fuel savings as hybrid with less hassle. I wish some of those
    were available here. If Honda really brings us the diesel Accord,
    I'll have a hard time resisting.
     
  8. On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:03:01 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    wrote:

    >On 1/11/2013 12:38 PM, nobody@nada.com wrote:
    >
    >> We're still driving two ten year old Hondas, and I occasinally check
    >> the Kelly Blue Book fr the values. It's crazy how high they are,
    >> especially withour low mileage, which is why we are still driving
    >> them. So far we have bought tires, batteries, and fluid/filter changes
    >> and they just keep running.

    >
    >You're very lucky that you haven't had the ubiquitous automatic
    >transmission problems, or maybe your Hondas are stick shift.


    Both are automatics and I have never had a problem with either car
    with the exception of one failed strut on a CR-V and the radio display
    failure on an Accord, both covered by Honda after the warranty.
    >
    >> How else can the state (CA in my case) pay salaries 30% higher than
    >> the private sector and give such gold plated benefits?

    >
    >Well when the economy was doing well and the private sector people were
    >making big bucks no one was complaining about that. I don't see salaries
    >that are higher than the private sector but the benefits are very good.


    Take a look at the Dept of Labor data. Except for executive levels
    (where the private sector is getting ridiculous), the public sector
    wages are significantly higher.
     
  9. Re: Subsidized cell phones (was Re: Just had a look at Verizon)

    On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:56:08 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    wrote:

    >On 1/11/2013 11:54 AM, nobody@nada.com wrote:
    >
    >> If they do it this way they are quite likely to do it. Here's the new
    >> Straight Talk/Walmart plan for iPhone5:
    >>
    >> "Straight Talk will offer the 16 GB version of the phone for $650. It
    >> will work with a monthly $45 plan that includes unlimited talk, text
    >> and data.
    >>
    >> The 8 GB iPhone 4 will also be available for $450. Customers who
    >> purchase either of the phones in the store can finance it and pay an
    >> additional $25 per month for their device. For the iPhone 5, those
    >> payments would last 26 months."
    >>
    >> So the plan with phone is $70 for 26 months and $45 after that (and no
    >> or low taxes depending on your state). Still far less that the AT&T
    >> route for a contract.

    >
    >It is a lot less for an individual phone. Where Verizon and AT&T begin
    >to make sense is if you're on a family plan with four phones taking full
    >advantage of the maximum subsidy every 20 months. It's still a slight
    >savings to use an MVNO, but it's not as enormous a savings as with a
    >single line.


    Having several lines on a family plan does mitigate the difference
    between Verizon and Page Plus. But you still will likely pay more. It
    just depends if the slightly better coverage is worth it to you.

    >
    >"The thing" is that in a family of users the need for specific amounts
    >of minutes and texts varies widely and paying for unlimited for everyone
    >is expensive. My friend just ported three lines from AT&T to Pageplus
    >and bought three "Excellent" condition Droid phones from Digicircle. He
    >doesn't need huge amounts of data (or voice or text) but he wanted smart
    >phones and Page Plus was the only way to get them on a relatively small
    >plan (two $12 plans, one $29.95 plan).


    I'm on a T-Mobile prepaid plan ($30 a month) and bought a Nexus 4
    phone outright. My cost for 24 months will be $1070. If I got a
    Verizon phone, subsidized, at $200, and a 4GB data plan, the 24 month
    cost would be $2840. Of course I only get 100 minutes of talk but I
    rarely use those. That's $1770 less for the 24 months. I do get less
    but that much less?

    My wife has Page Plus with a feature phone and it's costing us $30 a
    year. Now she wants a smartphone, for who knows what, she barely uses
    the phone now. I just got a HTC Incredible for $80 and she'll start
    with The 12, for a whopping $144 a year. I doubt she'll use much data
    but she will think she's arrived in the smartphone age.

    The bottom line is that you do get something more with Verizon, but I
    don't see that for most people it makes economic sense. You're paying
    for something else.
     
  10. Re: Subsidized cell phones (was Re: Just had a look at Verizon)

    On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:12:12 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    wrote:

    >On 1/11/2013 11:56 AM, nobody@nada.com wrote:
    >
    ><snip>
    >
    >> It's the same as buying a car for MSRP or close to it, because they
    >> only look at the payments. You'd be surprised how many people do that.

    >
    >The salespeople are well trained.
    >
    >It's always amusing to read about someone that thinks that if they go in
    >and pay cash that they're going to get a great deal. In reality the
    >dealer doesn't really like those customers. Not only because the dealer
    >loses the kickback from the finance company, but because the cash
    >customer is more likely to have a good idea of a fair price and is less
    >likely to buy an extended warranty, fabric guard, paint protectant,
    >after-market alarm, digital ash trays, etc.
    >
    >There's also the customers that think the invoice price is what the
    >dealer actually paid the factory for the vehicle, and think that they
    >are getting a spectacular deal if they pay anything under invoice.
    >
    >A lot of dealers have apparently calculated that they can make their
    >money on warranties, undercoating, alarms, financing, etc., on enough
    >customers for them to advertise very low selling prices and sell a few
    >cars at only a few hundred dollars over their cost. It's in the finance
    >department where the dealer makes the big bucks.


    Which is why we pay cash and refuse to do to the finance department.
    To sign papers, the salesman can bring them to his desk.
     
  11. Re: Subsidized cell phones (was Re: Just had a look at Verizon)

    On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:15:47 -0700, Todd Allcock
    <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:

    >At 11 Jan 2013 12:50:07 -0800 nobody@nada.com wrote:
    >> On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 06:07:50 -0700, Todd Allcock
    >> <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
    >>
    >> >At 10 Jan 2013 09:24:00 -0500 Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    >> >> In article <mcgte8td2rtlus66idb6ic9i1dktg8oj5l@4ax.com>,
    >> >> Bruno Puntz Jones <Somewhere in yer dreams.com> wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> > Today, if one is smart, they read the fine print, or like me,
    >> >> > have a lawyer read it. I was amazed how many car contracts
    >> >> > she told me to avoid. Verizon has (acc to her) about the best
    >> >> > phone fine print, but they all are designed to drip $ out of the
    >> >> > consumer faster then $ can be printed. And the consumer just
    >> >> > laps it up, all 'pre-flush'. I pay cash for my cars, maybe I'm in
    >> >> > a spot to do so where others are not. Yet the cell phone folks
    >> >> > ended that chance. Here's the new plan, unlike the old one.
    >> >>
    >> >> Some good reading on the subject:
    >> >>
    >> >> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2414069,00.asp
    >> >>
    >> >> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/09/us-ces-tmobileusa-

    >idUSBRE90806420130109?irpc=932
    >> >>
    >> >> John Legere, T-Mobile CEO:
    >> >>
    >> >> On How We Buy Phones: "If you landed from Mars on this planet and

    >you
    >> >> looked at the way people sell to customers in this industry, you

    >would
    >> >> go back to where you came from. The CEO of Verizon said in one of

    >his
    >> >> quotes, 'I'm just not sure the world is ready for $700 iPhones.' Are
    >> >you
    >> >> kidding me? That's how much they cost! That's why you're in prison

    >for
    >> >> multiple years!"
    >> >>
    >> >> On Subsidized Phones: "You are paying every penny for their phones.

    >You
    >> >> are not getting a $99 phone. Anyone who thinks they are, come with

    >me
    >> >> into the back. While you're handcuffed, they go into your pockets

    >and
    >> >> they take your money."
    >> >
    >> >Of course the irony in the statements made by the T-Mo CEO is that T-Mo
    >> >isn't ending the handcuffing of contracts, only the subsidies! T-Mo

    >will
    >> >still require two-year contracts, but claims they're in lieu of the

    >lower
    >> >monthly rates instead of the phone subsidies.

    >>
    >> And you can get essentially the same T-Mobile plan (unlimited tal and
    >> text, 2GB 4G data) from Straight Talk for $45 a month with no taxes
    >> and no contract. So how can T-Mobile sell it to ST for less than $45
    >> and still want to charge me $60 plus tax.
    >>
    >> If you BYOP, there is no annual contract for the Value Plans. The
    >> contract if you get the phone financed by them is to collect the $15 a
    >> month for the phone. I haven't looked at the contract, but I would
    >> assume that if you pay off the phone early there is no more contract
    >> for service.

    >
    >
    >Value plans require two year contracts whether you bring your own phone
    >or not. It's the "Monthly 4G" (prepaid) plans that have no contract, but
    >they offer less data than a Value Plan (they're "unlimited", but throttle
    >you back to 2G speeds much sooner than comparably priced Value plans.)
    >


    I guess I looked here http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/ instead of
    the value plan. The 2GB and unlimited 4G plans cost the same as the
    Value Plans. The $50 Value Plan does have 100MB more data than the $50
    prepaid plan. For the first two, the interesting question is whether
    there are taxes on the prepaid plans. I know there are on the Value
    Plans. The prepaid T-Mobile plan I have now has no taxes.
     
  12. Todd Allcock

    Todd Allcock Guest

    Re: Subsidized cell phones (was Re: Just had a look at Verizon)

    At 13 Jan 2013 14:13:59 -0800 nobody@nada.com wrote:
    > On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:15:47 -0700, Todd Allcock
    > <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
    >
    > >At 11 Jan 2013 12:50:07 -0800 nobody@nada.com wrote:
    > >> On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 06:07:50 -0
    > >> If you BYOP, there is no annual contract for the Value Plans. The
    > >> contract if you get the phone financed by them is to collect the $15

    a
    > >> month for the phone. I haven't looked at the contract, but I would
    > >> assume that if you pay off the phone early there is no more contract
    > >> for service.

    > >
    > >
    > >Value plans require two year contracts whether you bring your own phone
    > >or not. It's the "Monthly 4G" (prepaid) plans that have no contract,

    but
    > >they offer less data than a Value Plan (they're "unlimited", but

    throttle
    > >you back to 2G speeds much sooner than comparably priced Value plans.)
    > >

    >
    > I guess I looked here http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/ instead of
    > the value plan. The 2GB and unlimited 4G plans cost the same as the
    > Value Plans. The $50 Value Plan does have 100MB more data than the $50
    > prepaid plan. For the first two, the interesting question is whether
    > there are taxes on the prepaid plans. I know there are on the Value
    > Plans. The prepaid T-Mobile plan I have now has no taxes.



    The $50 Value plan offers no data. $55 gets you 200MB but there's
    overages if you exceed it. (On the $50 prepaid plan, you're throttled to
    2G speeds after 100MB, but can use as much slow data as you like. Not
    too much incentive to shackle yourself for two years to get a value plan,
    IMO!

    As you say, the $70 plans are both unlimited, so again, not much of a
    value proposition to that Value plan contract.

    I really hope T-Mo fixes this when they go all-in on Value plans. If the
    Value plan doesn't provide any actual *value* I don't see much of a
    point. I haven't switched to a Value plan because I have a grandfathered
    plan (with subsidies!p that costs about the same as a comparable Value
    plan.

    To be fair, Value plans, like all post-paid plans, offer a little more
    roaming coverage than prepaid plans, allow a limited amount of data
    roaming, and allow call-forwarding. Still not sure any if that is worth
    a two-year commitment...
     
  13. AL

    AL Guest

    On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:46:21 -0700, AL <AL@AL4516.com> wrote:

    >On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 18:36:40 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    >wrote:


    >> Where did the $40/month come from?

    >
    >I figured it's better to compare carriers using one line of service
    >because most of the quotes I see here are for one line.
    >
    >My one line totals $60/mo. Then I used your math and estimated the new
    >iPhone subsidy on my line at $20/mo. So my actual phone service cost
    >is actually $40/mo.
    >
    >That would be a more accurate figure to compare with the
    >bring-your-own-phone carriers, don't you think?


    Turns out I'm not grandfathered after all. I just noticed they still
    offer my plan. I have the 2 line shared plan at the bottom.

    http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/plan-information/?page=65Plus

    Still not so bad for an 'effective' $40/mo single line considering
    it's a (gasp) Verizon plan... ;)

    I roll over tomorrow. Just checked my totals for the last month: 29
    mins. That's shared between 2 lines, not sure what my line alone is
    but obviously unlimited minutes would gain me nothing. And 360 GB (my
    line alone), again no advantage to more data.

    So, *for me*, is there a better plan offered by the cheapie carriers?
    Remember it needs all the features of this plan, I do use them all
    from time to time.
     
  14. sms

    sms Guest

    On 1/14/2013 2:44 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    > In article <v5a6f8tss4it2fi1o2t61omitvckh3mk68@4ax.com>,
    > nobody@nada.com wrote:
    >
    >> Personally I'm not a fan of hybrids. You still have to maintain a gas
    >> engine and also an electrical one. The Europeans favor clean diesel -
    >> same fuel savings as hybrid with less hassle.

    >
    > What "maintaining" does one do with the electrical system of a hybrid?
    >
    > (Hint: you're talking with the long-time owner of a hybrid here.)


    Well on our hybrid, when I took it to the dealer for the floor mat
    recall, the service manager tried to sell me the Bilstein Electron Flush
    which is supposed to clean out the electrons that have gotten stuck in
    the wires and can't get either to the electric motor or back to the
    traction battery. He said that eventually the wires will be full of
    these stuck electrons and that the electric motor will no longer function.
     
  15. On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 17:44:34 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
    <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

    >In article <v5a6f8tss4it2fi1o2t61omitvckh3mk68@4ax.com>,
    > nobody@nada.com wrote:
    >
    >> Personally I'm not a fan of hybrids. You still have to maintain a gas
    >> engine and also an electrical one. The Europeans favor clean diesel -
    >> same fuel savings as hybrid with less hassle.

    >
    >What "maintaining" does one do with the electrical system of a hybrid?
    >
    >(Hint: you're talking with the long-time owner of a hybrid here.)
    >
    >And all the talk about diesel seems to focus around actual gallons used,
    >while virtually *none* of the talk ever goes to fuel cost per mile.
    >
    >And the last time I looked, gasoline was $3.05/gal while diesel was
    >$4.05/gal.
    >
    >So let's hear more talk about the fuel cost per mile of diesel, and not
    >just the gallons used. I don't care if I used 500 gallons of whatever
    >gets me down the road; I'm looking at fuel cost per mile.


    Why fuel cost per mile? Why not total cost per mile?
    Include all maintenance and repair. Electric drive systems do fail and
    don't forget to put in the battery costs. And then include original
    cost and depreciation. Hybrids and diesels do cost more to buy. The
    current cost of diesel is about $.60 more than unleaded regular. For
    models that come in both gas and diesel the payback is somewhere
    around 3 years.

    I have had diesels and like them because they really do much better
    than gas around town, which is where most of my driving is done these
    days.
     
  16. On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:25:27 -0700, AL <al@al61237.com> wrote:

    >On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:46:21 -0700, AL <AL@AL4516.com> wrote:
    >
    >>On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 18:36:40 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    >>wrote:

    >
    >>> Where did the $40/month come from?

    >>
    >>I figured it's better to compare carriers using one line of service
    >>because most of the quotes I see here are for one line.
    >>
    >>My one line totals $60/mo. Then I used your math and estimated the new
    >>iPhone subsidy on my line at $20/mo. So my actual phone service cost
    >>is actually $40/mo.
    >>
    >>That would be a more accurate figure to compare with the
    >>bring-your-own-phone carriers, don't you think?

    >
    >Turns out I'm not grandfathered after all. I just noticed they still
    >offer my plan. I have the 2 line shared plan at the bottom.
    >
    >http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/plan-information/?page=65Plus
    >
    >Still not so bad for an 'effective' $40/mo single line considering
    >it's a (gasp) Verizon plan... ;)
    >
    >I roll over tomorrow. Just checked my totals for the last month: 29
    >mins. That's shared between 2 lines, not sure what my line alone is
    >but obviously unlimited minutes would gain me nothing. And 360 GB (my
    >line alone), again no advantage to more data.
    >
    >So, *for me*, is there a better plan offered by the cheapie carriers?
    >Remember it needs all the features of this plan, I do use them all
    >from time to time.


    Maybe you need to get very explicit about features it has to have and
    how much of each you use.

    For 2 lines sharing 450 minutes, unlimited text and 2GB data each line
    is $160 plus taxes from your link.

    So it's likely you can do as well for less if that's all you require.
     
  17. Re: Subsidized cell phones (was Re: Just had a look at Verizon)

    On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 17:41:55 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
    <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

    >In article <8va6f8po5io1rs963ghksf8gp8189fj4jh@4ax.com>,
    > nobody@nada.com wrote:
    >
    >> I'm on a T-Mobile prepaid plan ($30 a month) and bought a Nexus 4
    >> phone outright. My cost for 24 months will be $1070. If I got a
    >> Verizon phone, subsidized, at $200, and a 4GB data plan, the 24 month
    >> cost would be $2840. Of course I only get 100 minutes of talk but I
    >> rarely use those. That's $1770 less for the 24 months. I do get less
    >> but that much less?

    >
    >Let's say you *do* use more than 100 voice minutes per month.


    Will never happen. With 5GB of data to eat, I can use GrooveIP or
    Tapatalk to make VIOP calls using the data allowance. I suppose it is
    theoretically possible to use all the data too.
    >
    >At a dime each.


    SO even if I just use normal talk and use 300 minutes, I'd be at $50
    for that month.
    >
    >$1770 comes out to 17700 minutes extra you'd have to use just to be no
    >worse off than going the VZW route.
    >
    >17700 minutes over 24 months is....737 *extra* minutes per month, each
    >and every month, for a total of...837 minutes per month you'd have to
    >talk on the t-mo plan JUST TO BE NO WORSE OFF THAN GOING VZW.
    >
    >The VZW plan forces you to pay that $2840, while the t-mo plan gives you
    >the option of paying anywhere between $1070 and that $2840 and beyond.
    >
    >Choices are nice.
     
  18. Re: Subsidized cell phones (was Re: Just had a look at Verizon)

    On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:55:52 -0700, Todd Allcock
    <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:

    >At 13 Jan 2013 14:13:59 -0800 nobody@nada.com wrote:
    >> On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:15:47 -0700, Todd Allcock
    >> <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
    >>
    >> >At 11 Jan 2013 12:50:07 -0800 nobody@nada.com wrote:
    >> >> On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 06:07:50 -0
    >> >> If you BYOP, there is no annual contract for the Value Plans. The
    >> >> contract if you get the phone financed by them is to collect the $15

    >a
    >> >> month for the phone. I haven't looked at the contract, but I would
    >> >> assume that if you pay off the phone early there is no more contract
    >> >> for service.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >Value plans require two year contracts whether you bring your own phone
    >> >or not. It's the "Monthly 4G" (prepaid) plans that have no contract,

    >but
    >> >they offer less data than a Value Plan (they're "unlimited", but

    >throttle
    >> >you back to 2G speeds much sooner than comparably priced Value plans.)
    >> >

    >>
    >> I guess I looked here http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/ instead of
    >> the value plan. The 2GB and unlimited 4G plans cost the same as the
    >> Value Plans. The $50 Value Plan does have 100MB more data than the $50
    >> prepaid plan. For the first two, the interesting question is whether
    >> there are taxes on the prepaid plans. I know there are on the Value
    >> Plans. The prepaid T-Mobile plan I have now has no taxes.

    >
    >
    >The $50 Value plan offers no data. $55 gets you 200MB but there's
    >overages if you exceed it. (On the $50 prepaid plan, you're throttled to
    >2G speeds after 100MB, but can use as much slow data as you like. Not
    >too much incentive to shackle yourself for two years to get a value plan,
    >IMO!
    >
    >As you say, the $70 plans are both unlimited, so again, not much of a
    >value proposition to that Value plan contract.
    >
    >I really hope T-Mo fixes this when they go all-in on Value plans. If the
    >Value plan doesn't provide any actual *value* I don't see much of a
    >point. I haven't switched to a Value plan because I have a grandfathered
    >plan (with subsidies!p that costs about the same as a comparable Value
    >plan.
    >
    >To be fair, Value plans, like all post-paid plans, offer a little more
    >roaming coverage than prepaid plans, allow a limited amount of data
    >roaming, and allow call-forwarding. Still not sure any if that is worth
    >a two-year commitment...
    >

    I agree it makes little sense to do the value plan vs prepaid. It
    clearly doesn't if you BYOP. And if you don't have a phone, you are
    going to pay full price for it anyway, albeit over 20 months. If you
    can afford to buy the phone out of pocket, the Value Plan is not much
    value. In fact, you can usually buy the phone for less than the
    T-Mobile full retail someplace other than T-Mobile. My Nexus 4 was
    $350 fro Google, and $500 from T-Mobile. Shop for any other T-Mobile
    or unlocked phone and you can beat their price. You just can't get
    them to finance it for you.
     
  19. tlvp

    tlvp Guest

    On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 17:44:34 -0500, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

    > And the last time I looked, gasoline was $3.05/gal while diesel was
    > $4.05/gal.


    Wow! In these parts the cheapest lo-test (cash price) is $3.659/gal, while
    Diesel is a tad over $4/gal, just like you say. But gas $3.05? Really? Wow!

    Cheers, -- tlvp
    --
    Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.
     
  20. Justin

    Justin Guest

    tlvp wrote on [Mon, 14 Jan 2013 22:54:28 -0500]:
    > On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 17:44:34 -0500, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    >
    >> And the last time I looked, gasoline was $3.05/gal while diesel was
    >> $4.05/gal.

    >
    > Wow! In these parts the cheapest lo-test (cash price) is $3.659/gal, while
    > Diesel is a tad over $4/gal, just like you say. But gas $3.05? Really? Wow!


    under $3.00 last week here... back to 3.09 or so
     

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