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Lithium-ion battery - technical answer

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by Tom Ayers, Sep 4, 2003.

  1. Tom Ayers

    Tom Ayers Guest

    Steven J Sobol wrote:
    >
    > Janie Collins <jjcollins@triad.rr.com> wrote:
    > > Steve,
    > >
    > > I've had the phone for 2 weeks--is it too late to "condition" it? If not,
    > > how should I do this? Run it down first, or just put it in the charger for
    > > 24 hours?

    >
    > It's supposed to be conditioned before use. If you didn't, it's pointless
    > now.
    >
    > --
    > JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
    > 22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    > Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    > 888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net


    A Li-ion cell shouldn't need any conditioning.

    Here is why we condition:
    Nickel based cells (Ni-Cad and NiMH) are 1.2 volts each. In a typical
    phone application, you have several cells in the battery to achieve the
    desired voltage. The last phone I had with a nickel based battery was
    7.2 volts, so it contained six cells inside the sealed plastic battery
    case. Of course, to you the user, it is just one "battery", but on the
    inside, it is six. With nickel based batteries, the danger of not
    conditioning the battery is that one of the cells is at a different
    (lower) voltage than the rest, causing you to overcharge the other
    cells. When this happens, a small amount of electrolyte will boil off
    and vent, shortening the life of those cells. In addition, having one
    cell lower than the rest, if you drain it too far, it can cause that
    cell to take on an opposite charge (neg and pos switch places), and
    usually in this state, the battery appears to have died (won't take a
    charge). Usually you can't get back from this state, and you end up
    buying a new battery. Now, as for the "memory" effect, true nickel
    memory is a different cause, and is actually rare. This "one cell
    lower" than the rest is often mistaken for "memory", but to you the end
    user, the effect is the same.

    What conditioning will do, if done before it is too late, is allow the
    cells to drain, equalizing their charge as they drain, and bring them
    back up to nearly the same full charge.

    Now, of course with all the years we have used nickel, we the humans
    have been "conditioned" to condition our batteries.

    Moving on to Li-Ion, every phone I have seen with Li-ion cells is
    running at 3.6v, which is the voltage of one cell. Nothing to get out
    of balance. No memory. What purpose (from a electro-chemical
    standpoint) does conditioning serve?

    Of course no harm is done, except using up one of the many
    charge/discharge cycles.

    If someone can give me a valid reason to condition (other than "they
    told me to"), with technical backup, I would love to hear it.

    73,
    Tom Ayers

    --
    Money is no object to me...

    I have no money, therefore it is not an object.



    › See More: Lithium-ion battery - technical answer
  2. Tom Ayers <kg6mvb@nospam.qsl.net> wrote:

    > A Li-ion cell shouldn't need any conditioning.


    [snip interesting technical details]

    > Moving on to Li-Ion, every phone I have seen with Li-ion cells is
    > running at 3.6v, which is the voltage of one cell. Nothing to get out
    > of balance. No memory. What purpose (from a electro-chemical
    > standpoint) does conditioning serve?


    You certainly sound like you know what you're talking about - but
    EVERYONE else I've talked to says exactly the same thing as I did.

    Weird. Perhaps the people I've talked to at the cell phone companies
    haven't been trained on this particular point.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  3. Thanks, Tom! I appreciate your input and choose to believe it too :).

    Have a good one,

    Janie

    "Tom Ayers" <kg6mvb@nospam.qsl.net> wrote in message
    news:3F57A3C0.579E4752@nospam.qsl.net...
    > Steven J Sobol wrote:
    > >
    > > Janie Collins <jjcollins@triad.rr.com> wrote:
    > > > Steve,
    > > >
    > > > I've had the phone for 2 weeks--is it too late to "condition" it? If

    not,
    > > > how should I do this? Run it down first, or just put it in the

    charger for
    > > > 24 hours?

    > >
    > > It's supposed to be conditioned before use. If you didn't, it's

    pointless
    > > now.
    > >
    > > --
    > > JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
    > > 22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    > > Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    > > 888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net

    >
    > A Li-ion cell shouldn't need any conditioning.
    >
    > Here is why we condition:
    > Nickel based cells (Ni-Cad and NiMH) are 1.2 volts each. In a typical
    > phone application, you have several cells in the battery to achieve the
    > desired voltage. The last phone I had with a nickel based battery was
    > 7.2 volts, so it contained six cells inside the sealed plastic battery
    > case. Of course, to you the user, it is just one "battery", but on the
    > inside, it is six. With nickel based batteries, the danger of not
    > conditioning the battery is that one of the cells is at a different
    > (lower) voltage than the rest, causing you to overcharge the other
    > cells. When this happens, a small amount of electrolyte will boil off
    > and vent, shortening the life of those cells. In addition, having one
    > cell lower than the rest, if you drain it too far, it can cause that
    > cell to take on an opposite charge (neg and pos switch places), and
    > usually in this state, the battery appears to have died (won't take a
    > charge). Usually you can't get back from this state, and you end up
    > buying a new battery. Now, as for the "memory" effect, true nickel
    > memory is a different cause, and is actually rare. This "one cell
    > lower" than the rest is often mistaken for "memory", but to you the end
    > user, the effect is the same.
    >
    > What conditioning will do, if done before it is too late, is allow the
    > cells to drain, equalizing their charge as they drain, and bring them
    > back up to nearly the same full charge.
    >
    > Now, of course with all the years we have used nickel, we the humans
    > have been "conditioned" to condition our batteries.
    >
    > Moving on to Li-Ion, every phone I have seen with Li-ion cells is
    > running at 3.6v, which is the voltage of one cell. Nothing to get out
    > of balance. No memory. What purpose (from a electro-chemical
    > standpoint) does conditioning serve?
    >
    > Of course no harm is done, except using up one of the many
    > charge/discharge cycles.
    >
    > If someone can give me a valid reason to condition (other than "they
    > told me to"), with technical backup, I would love to hear it.
    >
    > 73,
    > Tom Ayers
    >
    > --
    > Money is no object to me...
    >
    > I have no money, therefore it is not an object.

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