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M2M -vs- In Network

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by Janie Collins, Feb 21, 2004.

  1. Joe Kaffe <kaffejoe@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > Thanks... I suspect I'll have to do that on the phones on a "family shared
    > plan." The phones on that plan rack up about 300 M2M minutes... 90% of which
    > is VM retrieval... by my teenagers. My other plans can remain as they are.


    There are other options for voicemail, of course, like forwarding on no-
    answer to a dedicated voicemail line. I don't know if that'll help you.

    > My 2 yr contract will be up in about 45 days on that family plan. Without VM
    > retrieval being charged to M2M (something I counted on from day one), it's
    > doubtful the plan (with it's present allotment) will work and I'll give up
    > the service on that plan. I'd enter into a new 2 yr contract, but present
    > offerings are worse than they were two years ago!


    That depends... America's Choice was just being introduced two years ago,
    and I was on National SingleRate. ;)

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP: C57E 8B25 F994 D6D0 5F6B B961 EA08 9410 E3AE 35ED
     



    › See More: M2M -vs- In Network
  2. plane

    plane Guest

    Mike <inundated9@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<r8fi30t1c9g1h84lk2mcli20f1aplroj2k@4ax.com>...
    > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:59:16 -0500, "Alan M."
    > <letsgohokies@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > >I agree with the other poster - you don't think it's odd that it costs to
    > >check your own voicemail, but you could check your friends vm for free?

    >
    > In theory, you could...how many of you have your friends' VM password,
    > tho? ;)
    >
    > This is another "red herring". "If I could call myself and talked to
    > myself on my own VZW phone, from that phone, it'd be talking to a VZW
    > customer"?? No, you can't call your own phone and talk to yourself on
    > your own phone from your own phone. :D
    >
    > The long and short of it - VZW has made a policy change that all
    > markets will deduct VM retrieval, from your phone, as regular
    > peak/off-peak minutes. That's the only thing that matters here... not
    > if you could talk to yourself, not if you could call your friend's
    > voicemail.
    >
    > And for the 100th time...VM retrieval has NEVER been out of M2M in at
    > least two very large VZW markets...Los Angeles and Ohio/Michigan. The
    > changes that get so much play in here will not change a thing for us.
    >
    > Mike



    Haven't read every post in thread, but there are (used to be) *back
    door* numbers to the CELL systemS in all areas(before roaming wsa so
    easy, these numbers were listed for each city, you could dial it,
    either local or long distance, enter the 10 digit cell number, and it
    would ring the cell phone
    --the problem was that you had to know what city the person you were
    calling was in---but it also allowed access to voice mail.

    --I used to have a gte system book which published them, but can't
    find it--do any of you all have some of them, and will they work as a
    m2m call---the numbe for east tn was one of the verizon numbers (3
    difit) + mail or something--but I can't get it to work now, but I may
    have the local number wrong.

    If anyone has some of these old numbers, could you list them, to se
    if they will work m2m for voicemail?
     
  3. plane

    plane Guest

    Mike <inundated9@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<r8fi30t1c9g1h84lk2mcli20f1aplroj2k@4ax.com>...
    > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:59:16 -0500, "Alan M."
    > <letsgohokies@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > >I agree with the other poster - you don't think it's odd that it costs to
    > >check your own voicemail, but you could check your friends vm for free?

    >
    > In theory, you could...how many of you have your friends' VM password,
    > tho? ;)
    >
    > This is another "red herring". "If I could call myself and talked to
    > myself on my own VZW phone, from that phone, it'd be talking to a VZW
    > customer"?? No, you can't call your own phone and talk to yourself on
    > your own phone from your own phone. :D
    >
    > The long and short of it - VZW has made a policy change that all
    > markets will deduct VM retrieval, from your phone, as regular
    > peak/off-peak minutes. That's the only thing that matters here... not
    > if you could talk to yourself, not if you could call your friend's
    > voicemail.
    >
    > And for the 100th time...VM retrieval has NEVER been out of M2M in at
    > least two very large VZW markets...Los Angeles and Ohio/Michigan. The
    > changes that get so much play in here will not change a thing for us.
    >
    > Mike



    Their brochure indicates that with *in Network*, one can call any
    verizon customer. Well, I am a verizon customer, and I believe the
    word *any* would include me...can't somebody argue this?
     
  4. Scott Nelson

    Scott Nelson Guest

    Wouldn't Verizon charge 'per minute' for off-net call forwarding/no
    answer-transfer?
    I know SprintPCS does. Not sure if Verizon does.

    Scotty


    "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
    news:rMydndP6Xr1M8aTd4p2dnA@lmi.net...
    > Joe Kaffe <kaffejoe@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    > > Thanks... I suspect I'll have to do that on the phones on a "family

    shared
    > > plan." The phones on that plan rack up about 300 M2M minutes... 90% of

    which
    > > is VM retrieval... by my teenagers. My other plans can remain as they

    are.
    >
    > There are other options for voicemail, of course, like forwarding on no-
    > answer to a dedicated voicemail line. I don't know if that'll help you.
    >
    > > My 2 yr contract will be up in about 45 days on that family plan.

    Without VM
    > > retrieval being charged to M2M (something I counted on from day one),

    it's
    > > doubtful the plan (with it's present allotment) will work and I'll give

    up
    > > the service on that plan. I'd enter into a new 2 yr contract, but

    present
    > > offerings are worse than they were two years ago!

    >
    > That depends... America's Choice was just being introduced two years ago,
    > and I was on National SingleRate. ;)
    >
    > --
    > JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA
    > Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /

    sjsobol@JustThe.net
    > PGP: C57E 8B25 F994 D6D0 5F6B B961 EA08 9410 E3AE 35ED
    >
     
  5. Scott Nelson <spamcop@bnmnetworks.net> wrote:
    > Wouldn't Verizon charge 'per minute' for off-net call forwarding/no
    > answer-transfer?


    Yes. I only said it was an option; not a solution.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP: C57E 8B25 F994 D6D0 5F6B B961 EA08 9410 E3AE 35ED
     
  6. plane <plane@usa.com> wrote:

    > Haven't read every post in thread, but there are (used to be) *back
    > door* numbers to the CELL systemS in all areas(before roaming wsa so
    > easy, these numbers were listed for each city, you could dial it,
    > either local or long distance, enter the 10 digit cell number, and it
    > would ring the cell phone


    None in LA or Cleveland that I know of. I started as a VZW customer in
    Cleveland in 2000 and there were none back then either.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP: C57E 8B25 F994 D6D0 5F6B B961 EA08 9410 E3AE 35ED
     
  7. Bill Radio

    Bill Radio Guest

    I've had the priviledge of repeating this many times. In Verizon's Terms of
    Service (part of your contract), it states calling voice mail has ALWAYS
    deducted from regular minutes. However, the fact that it actually deducts
    from MtoM minutes does not change the fact that they have always told us
    it's not supposed to.

    In the Mountain & Desert markets, V/M calls only came from regular minutes
    until 9/20/2003 when they changed the billing system. After that, calling
    your own number took minutes from MtoM, but that sucked for those of us on
    "capped" off-peak promotions, as those calls took from MtoM at night,
    instead of from N&W minutes.

    I sympathize with everyone, including myself, who will be losing this
    'quirk', if indeed we are. But the bottom line is that from day one, every
    Verizon contract clearly stated that V/M calls use regular minutes. Judging
    from the reaction here, and from the unclear interpretation of the "every
    call to every VZ customer..." there could be enough complaints among
    customers to influence a 'policy change.' This happened when they changed
    Basic V/M. But there is no 'policy change' if they never intended calls to
    V/M to come from MtoM.

    Let's fire up those CS lines!

    Bill Radio
    Click for Western U.S. Wireless Reviews at:
    http://www.mountainwireless.com

    "Mike" <inundated9@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:r8fi30t1c9g1h84lk2mcli20f1aplroj2k@4ax.com...
    > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:59:16 -0500, "Alan M."
    > <letsgohokies@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > The long and short of it - VZW has made a policy change that all
    > markets will deduct VM retrieval, from your phone, as regular
    > peak/off-peak minutes. That's the only thing that matters here... not
    > if you could talk to yourself, not if you could call your friend's
    > voicemail.
    >
     
  8. Mike

    Mike Guest

    On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:08:47 -0700, "Bill Radio"
    <br@MountainWirelessNOSPAN.com> wrote:

    >Judging
    >from the reaction here, and from the unclear interpretation of the "every
    >call to every VZ customer..." there could be enough complaints among
    >customers to influence a 'policy change.' This happened when they changed
    >Basic V/M. But there is no 'policy change' if they never intended calls to
    >V/M to come from MtoM.


    Here's the crux here: VM retrieval isn't a "customer", it's a
    service.

    If I'm calling a live person, that's a customer. If I'm calling to
    check my voice mail, it's a service. I really think everyone who's
    trying to come up with "a way to word around this" is just picking
    nits.

    Now, would I like VM retrieval to come out of M2M/In-Network? Sure.
    I just signed up for the unlimited In-Network minutes and that'd make
    it free. Heck, even when I had 1000 M2M minutes, I usually use under
    10 (ten) a month, so that'd have basically made it free, too.

    But as you noted, VZW never advertised free VM retrieval, and made it
    clear they expected VM retrieval to come out of regular minutes in the
    contract and several other places. And for folks like me, it's never
    come out of M2M no matter what number I dialed.

    All this "if I call myself, I'm a customer" thing is kinda silly,
    IMHO. You're not calling yourself, you're using a service. If you
    want to talk to yourself for free, put down the phone and look in a
    mirror. ;)

    Mike
     
  9. CharlesH

    CharlesH Guest

    In article <btmh309orjm8rm4ehcp89g571f8nbqo3gm@4ax.com>,
    Mike <inundated9@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:48:02 GMT, Ken <googleguy_nj@yahoo.yahoo.com>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>This policy change is very odd. It means that calling any VZW number
    >>EXCEPT your own is "in-network". You can even check voice mail of
    >>other phones for free. Just not your own.


    Say I have two phones A and B on a family share plan. So what happens
    when I use phone A to call phone B, let the call go to VM, and hit # to
    enter retrieval mode on B's VM?? They would have to do some real tricky
    programming to distinguish between A calling B and leaving a message,
    which is presumably intended to be "In-network", and A calling B and
    going into VM retrieval mode on B's mailbox.
     
  10. Quick

    Quick Guest

    "CharlesH" <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote
    > In article <btmh309orjm8rm4ehcp89g571f8nbqo3gm@4ax.com>,
    > Mike <inundated9@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > >On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:48:02 GMT, Ken <googleguy_nj@yahoo.yahoo.com>
    > >wrote:
    > >
    > >>This policy change is very odd. It means that calling any VZW number
    > >>EXCEPT your own is "in-network". You can even check voice mail of
    > >>other phones for free. Just not your own.

    >
    > Say I have two phones A and B on a family share plan. So what happens
    > when I use phone A to call phone B, let the call go to VM, and hit # to
    > enter retrieval mode on B's VM?? They would have to do some real tricky
    > programming to distinguish between A calling B and leaving a message,
    > which is presumably intended to be "In-network", and A calling B and
    > going into VM retrieval mode on B's mailbox.


    So which number do you give out to people to call you on? -:)

    -Quick
     
  11. Tom Ayers

    Tom Ayers Guest

    In the Los Angeles market, any time you hit voice mail, it is NOT M2M
    minutes. I haven't checked recently, but on past bills, getting my
    wife's vm (family share) cost prime minutes.

    About six months ago, with some extra minutes remaining, I experimented
    with this, and found that in every instance (*86, my own number, calling
    wife's phone) I was charged minutes. Therefore, I could NOT use my
    phone to check her mail (without using airtime).

    I've developed the habit of hanging up right after ring 4 so I don't use
    that minute...

    Tom

    CharlesH wrote:
    >
    > In article <btmh309orjm8rm4ehcp89g571f8nbqo3gm@4ax.com>,
    > Mike <inundated9@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > >On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:48:02 GMT, Ken <googleguy_nj@yahoo.yahoo.com>
    > >wrote:
    > >
    > >>This policy change is very odd. It means that calling any VZW number
    > >>EXCEPT your own is "in-network". You can even check voice mail of
    > >>other phones for free. Just not your own.

    >
    > Say I have two phones A and B on a family share plan. So what happens
    > when I use phone A to call phone B, let the call go to VM, and hit # to
    > enter retrieval mode on B's VM?? They would have to do some real tricky
    > programming to distinguish between A calling B and leaving a message,
    > which is presumably intended to be "In-network", and A calling B and
    > going into VM retrieval mode on B's mailbox.


    --
    If it ain't broke, let me try...
     
  12. Alan M.

    Alan M. Guest

    Very interesting - so does that mean if you get the person's vm and leave a
    message, that you get charged peak minutes? Therefore is MTM only when they
    answer the phone?

    "Tom Ayers" <kg6mvb@nospam.qsl.net> wrote in message
    news:403A8DC3.61C14835@nospam.qsl.net...
    > In the Los Angeles market, any time you hit voice mail, it is NOT M2M
    > minutes. I haven't checked recently, but on past bills, getting my
    > wife's vm (family share) cost prime minutes.
    >
    > About six months ago, with some extra minutes remaining, I experimented
    > with this, and found that in every instance (*86, my own number, calling
    > wife's phone) I was charged minutes. Therefore, I could NOT use my
    > phone to check her mail (without using airtime).
    >
    > I've developed the habit of hanging up right after ring 4 so I don't use
    > that minute...
    >
    > Tom
    >
     
  13. Tom Ayers

    Tom Ayers Guest

    Yes, it showed up on the bill as peak minutes when you hit their voice
    mail. The fine print on the plan states "except voice mail intercepts".

    Until very recently, Los Angeles was on a different billing system. I
    haven't checked it since the change. I just missed this billing cycle,
    so if I remember, I'll make a few calls and take notes in about three
    weeks.

    Tom


    "Alan M." wrote:
    >
    > Very interesting - so does that mean if you get the person's vm and leave a
    > message, that you get charged peak minutes? Therefore is MTM only when they
    > answer the phone?
    >
    > "Tom Ayers" <kg6mvb@nospam.qsl.net> wrote in message
    > news:403A8DC3.61C14835@nospam.qsl.net...
    > > In the Los Angeles market, any time you hit voice mail, it is NOT M2M
    > > minutes. I haven't checked recently, but on past bills, getting my
    > > wife's vm (family share) cost prime minutes.
    > >
    > > About six months ago, with some extra minutes remaining, I experimented
    > > with this, and found that in every instance (*86, my own number, calling
    > > wife's phone) I was charged minutes. Therefore, I could NOT use my
    > > phone to check her mail (without using airtime).
    > >
    > > I've developed the habit of hanging up right after ring 4 so I don't use
    > > that minute...
    > >
    > > Tom
    > >


    --
    If it ain't broke, let me try...
     
  14. Alan M.

    Alan M. Guest

    I have never checked if that is the case here in eastern Massachusetts - I
    guess I'll try it out and see...

    "Tom Ayers" <kg6mvb@nospam.qsl.net> wrote in message
    news:403B8FAC.3E8E877A@nospam.qsl.net...
    > Yes, it showed up on the bill as peak minutes when you hit their voice
    > mail. The fine print on the plan states "except voice mail intercepts".
    >
    > Until very recently, Los Angeles was on a different billing system. I
    > haven't checked it since the change. I just missed this billing cycle,
    > so if I remember, I'll make a few calls and take notes in about three
    > weeks.
    >
    > Tom
    >
    >
    > "Alan M." wrote:
    > >
    > > Very interesting - so does that mean if you get the person's vm and

    leave a
    > > message, that you get charged peak minutes? Therefore is MTM only when

    they
    > > answer the phone?
     
  15. plane

    plane Guest

    Tom Ayers <kg6mvb@nospam.qsl.net> wrote in message news:<403B8FAC.3E8E877A@nospam.qsl.net>...
    > Yes, it showed up on the bill as peak minutes when you hit their voice
    > mail. The fine print on the plan states "except voice mail intercepts".
    >


    Where is the *fine print*; there is so much of it, and I had tried to
    find info about it but had failed. Possibly your contract and info
    may be different, but I will look where you advise.
     
  16. plane

    plane Guest

    Tom Ayers <kg6mvb@nospam.qsl.net> wrote in message news:<403B8FAC.3E8E877A@nospam.qsl.net>...
    > Yes, it showed up on the bill as peak minutes when you hit their voice
    > mail. The fine print on the plan states "except voice mail intercepts".
    >


    Where is the *fine print*; there is so much of it, and I had tried to
    find info about it but had failed. Possibly your contract and info
    may be different, but I will look where you advise.
     
  17. David S

    David S Guest

    On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:24:43 -0500, "Alan M." <letsgohokies@hotmail.com>
    chose to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and
    everything:

    >"Tom Ayers" <kg6mvb@nospam.qsl.net> wrote in message
    >news:403A8DC3.61C14835@nospam.qsl.net...
    >> In the Los Angeles market, any time you hit voice mail, it is NOT M2M
    >> minutes. I haven't checked recently, but on past bills, getting my
    >> wife's vm (family share) cost prime minutes.
    >>
    >> About six months ago, with some extra minutes remaining, I experimented
    >> with this, and found that in every instance (*86, my own number, calling
    >> wife's phone) I was charged minutes. Therefore, I could NOT use my
    >> phone to check her mail (without using airtime).
    >>
    >> I've developed the habit of hanging up right after ring 4 so I don't use
    >> that minute...


    >Very interesting - so does that mean if you get the person's vm and leave a
    >message, that you get charged peak minutes? Therefore is MTM only when they
    >answer the phone?


    Which means you don't know when you place the call whether it will be
    billed as M2M or peak. That sucks.

    --
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "This is a puppy with some problems." - Lennox Lewis on Mike Tyson
     

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