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My experience with Verizon Wireless (Bad naturally) - detailed contracts would be good

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by Dan Albrich, Jul 4, 2004.

  1. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     



    › See More: My experience with Verizon Wireless (Bad naturally) - detailed contracts would be good
  2. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     
  3. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     
  4. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     
  5. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     
  6. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     
  7. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     
  8. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     
  9. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     
  10. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     
  11. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     
  12. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     
  13. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     
  14. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     
  15. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     
  16. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Guest

    Your post reminds me of a major problem in the cellular industry. Not to say
    that you did everything as well as you could, i.e. it would have been a good
    idea to do a test call from Canada, and see how it got billed. Anyway, it
    seems to me what we need is a written contract that details obligations
    running both ways. What I as a consumer am required to do (i.e. pay my bill
    on time etc), and specifically what the cellular provider is promising to do
    for me. The latter is missing from all cellular contracts I've seen which
    is why folks don't naturally prefer a written contract. I mean there is all
    kinds of language that protects the carrier, but really nothing that
    guarentees service to the consumer. The main thing I'd like to see is a
    detailed coverage map that is guarenteed for the term of service. Should the
    carrier need to reduce coverage due to a roaming agreement change, fine,
    just allow me out of my contract without a fee (if this occurs). A detailed
    feature list would also be nice, and if possible some quality of service
    requirement (perhaps based on a certain number of dropped calls within a
    time period which is deemed unacceptable and allows you out of your
    contract.

    Anyway, this particular issue is an industry-wide problem. We learn by
    experience how everything works, then make assumptions about what to expect.
    The problem with this is that anything that isn't specifically stated as a
    feature in writing can go away at any time and you have very limited
    recourse. I will say that the problems you describe could have happened with
    any carrier so this isn't a Verizon specific issue.

    One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada. This
    does not occur for Verizon folks in the western markets. I also doubt this
    is specifically mentioned as a plan feature, but rather common knowledge of
    how the billing system has worked in the past. Relying on a feature like
    this is dangerous. This is the type of feature that can go away at any time.
    I have never heard anyone say they got free roaming in Canada (save some old
    SRN plans) unless they had a Canada specific option on their account. This
    part seems to be just plain bad info period.

    Anyway, the parts of your story that have the most merit are also the types
    of problem that can happen on *any* carrier today. The upshot being careful
    research and much work on the consumer's part is basically required when
    choosing a cellular plan.

    -Dan
     
  17. Bob Scheurle

    Bob Scheurle Guest

    On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 16:24:39 -0700, "Dan Albrich"
    <junkmail@shaney.uoregon.edui> wrote:
    >One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    >customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada.


    Not any more. That was discontinued for new/renewed plans effective May
    10.
     
  18. Bob Scheurle

    Bob Scheurle Guest

    On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 16:24:39 -0700, "Dan Albrich"
    <junkmail@shaney.uoregon.edui> wrote:
    >One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    >customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada.


    Not any more. That was discontinued for new/renewed plans effective May
    10.
     
  19. Bob Scheurle

    Bob Scheurle Guest

    On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 16:24:39 -0700, "Dan Albrich"
    <junkmail@shaney.uoregon.edui> wrote:
    >One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    >customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada.


    Not any more. That was discontinued for new/renewed plans effective May
    10.
     
  20. Bob Scheurle

    Bob Scheurle Guest

    On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 16:24:39 -0700, "Dan Albrich"
    <junkmail@shaney.uoregon.edui> wrote:
    >One particular example from your post: It's common knowledge that Verizon
    >customers who sign in the NE markets get free LD from the US to Canada.


    Not any more. That was discontinued for new/renewed plans effective May
    10.
     

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