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new charge for # portability from Verizon

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by L'l John, Jan 29, 2004.

  1. Justin

    Justin Guest

    The Ghost of General Lee wrote on [Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:28:37 -0500]:
    > On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 20:42:23 +0100 (CET), Anonymous via the
    > Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer <nobody@cypherpunks.to> wrote:
    >
    >>In article <Y4cSb.3$pk.2@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
    >>"L'l John" <je_norrisremove@thishotmail.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>So I'm paying more so some other guy can port his number? WTF?

    >
    > Why should this be a surprise to you? The telco's have been charging
    > for bullshit like "Federal Universal Charge", "FCC Local Number
    > Portability Charge", "FCC Charge for Network Access", and "Interstate
    > Universal Service Charge" for years.


    and 911



    › See More: new charge for # portability from Verizon
  2. Peter Pan <Marcs1102NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > See what I mean? We all pay monthly for WNP so a few cheapjacks can save a
    > few bucks on signs/business cards/etc.
    > Consider this, it may be cheaper for you, but it is NOT cheaper for the rest
    > of us!


    Y'know, I'm really sick and tired of hearing this from you.

    It's BS, because there isn't just the financial cost of doing the printing.
    I know I've mentioned the cost of the new signage, etc., but there is also the
    fact that if a lot of people have your cell phone number and you suddenly don't
    have the number anymore, it could cost you significant amounts of money in
    lost sales.

    On the other hand, I'm one of those people who would be willing to pay for
    LNP personally if I had to switch... (I mean, pay a fee instead of paying
    a little each month)

    But I have to wonder how much it would cost at that point...


    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP: C57E 8B25 F994 D6D0 5F6B B961 EA08 9410 E3AE 35ED
  3. The Ghost of General Lee <ghost@general.lee> wrote:

    > The answer is obvious. They do it so they can deflect the heat off of
    > them and onto the "guilty" party. Gas pumps would be a bit
    > complicated having multiple counters running as you pumped your gas.
    > In several states, they do list the amount of federal and state tax
    > per gallon on the pump.


    heh, when working for BP many years ago I had some idiot from Pennsylvania
    get really pissed off at me because gas was expensive at my station in Ohio.

    I should have told him to drive three hours to Detroit, where gas is, on
    average, about 10c/gallon cheaper. Then he could have cussed me out while
    out of gas on the Ohio Turnpike. :>

    He obviously hadn't realized that taxes are different between Ohio and PA.

    Yes, Pennsylvania has more roads, but at least two SIGNIFICANTLY large
    roads, plus another regional highway -- the main branch of the PA Turnpike,
    the Northeast Extension, and PA 60 from Butler down to near the Pittsburgh
    airport -- are funded extensively by *tolls.* I'd say the percentage of
    free roads is much higer in Ohio... (Mileage-wise, anyhow. The only long
    stretch of highway in PA that you don't pay tolls on is I-80.)

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP: C57E 8B25 F994 D6D0 5F6B B961 EA08 9410 E3AE 35ED
  4. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On 29 Jan 2004 20:19:43 GMT, usenetMYSHOES@bizaveMYSHOES.com (Andrew)
    posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >Peter Pan <Marcs1102NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:


    >: What did you expect? A few demanded WNP for free, and now we all (including
    >: those that didn't want it or need it) get to pay the bills for those few
    >: that demanded it. This is America (had to say that or you may think this is
    >: one of those godless socialist countries), instead of people paying for
    >: something they use, the rest of us get to pay for it for them.


    >The small fee/month is much cheaper than the cost of getting new
    >business cards printed


    Try reading that again. Why would I have to get new cards printed if
    I'm not changing carriers? And why should I pay for LNP if I'm not
    changing carriers?
  5. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On 30 Jan 2004 00:17:55 GMT, usenetMYSHOES@bizaveMYSHOES.com (Andrew)
    posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >Peter Pan <Marcs1102NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >: See what I mean? We all pay monthly for WNP so a few cheapjacks can save a
    >: few bucks on signs/business cards/etc.
    >: Consider this, it may be cheaper for you, but it is NOT cheaper for the rest
    >: of us!
    >
    >I don't use all the features Verizon Wireless offers. I don't use
    >text messaging, Get It Now, etc.


    So you don't pay for them.
  6. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Al Klein <rukbat@pern.org> wrote:
    : On 30 Jan 2004 00:17:55 GMT, usenetMYSHOES@bizaveMYSHOES.com (Andrew)
    : posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    : >Peter Pan <Marcs1102NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
    : >: See what I mean? We all pay monthly for WNP so a few cheapjacks can save a
    : >: few bucks on signs/business cards/etc.
    : >: Consider this, it may be cheaper for you, but it is NOT cheaper for the rest
    : >: of us!
    : >
    : >I don't use all the features Verizon Wireless offers. I don't use
    : >text messaging, Get It Now, etc.

    : So you don't pay for them.

    I don't pay *extra* if I don't use them, but you can bet I am paying
    more because they are available to me. Like all those channels you
    never watch on cable. If you could pay for just the five or six you
    actually watch, you might save some money on your bill.

    Andrew
    --
    ----> Portland, Oregon, USA <----
    *******************************************************************
    ----> http://www.bizave.com <---- Photo Albums and Portland Info
    ----> To Email me remove "MYSHOES" from email address
    *******************************************************************
  7. Peter Pan <Marcs1102NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > So which is it? You waffled on both sides. Should EVERYONE pay every month
    > for number porting, or the people that actually have their number ported pay
    > for porting?


    Keeping my phone number is important
    enough to ME personally that I would pay a lump sum if I moved, as long as
    I could afford it. The WLNP fee doesn't really bother me. I do wonder how
    much we'd have to pay (we being people who want to switch) if the costs were
    not spread out over the entire customer base, but of course we'll never know
    that.

    My comment was directed at your rant, which you've
    posted here before, about people wanting WLNP simply because they didn't
    want to reprint stationery. Yes, in the grand scheme of things, that's
    not a lot of money. On the other hand... how familiar are you with basic
    economics? Are you familiar with the definition of the term "opportunity cost"?

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP: C57E 8B25 F994 D6D0 5F6B B961 EA08 9410 E3AE 35ED
  8. CharlesH

    CharlesH Guest

    In article <I8KdnY9yp-n_R4Td4p2dnA@lmi.net>,
    Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
    >Yes, Pennsylvania has more roads, but at least two SIGNIFICANTLY large
    >roads, plus another regional highway -- the main branch of the PA Turnpike,
    >the Northeast Extension, and PA 60 from Butler down to near the Pittsburgh
    >airport -- are funded extensively by *tolls.* I'd say the percentage of
    >free roads is much higer in Ohio... (Mileage-wise, anyhow. The only long
    >stretch of highway in PA that you don't pay tolls on is I-80.)


    <humor mode, please>
    "Toll road" .. let's see <check dictionary>... that's a road you have to
    pay to go on, isn't it? Isn't that a phenomena common to the Eastern
    U.S. but rarely found elswhere in the U.S.? We have some bridges like
    that around here (California).

    Around here, gasoline taxes just go into the state's general fund,
    and a small percentage of it goes back to support the (free) roads. :-(
  9. N9WOS

    N9WOS Guest


    > >I don't use all the features Verizon Wireless offers. I don't use
    > >text messaging, Get It Now, etc.

    >
    > So you don't pay for them.


    Lets see....
    I do not use voice mail, text messaging, and three way calling.
    Yes, if you don't use them, then you won't be charged any extra to use them.

    But the capability is there, none the less.
    And it takes money to keep it there, even if it isn't used.
    That cost is built into the monthly charges and airtime fees.

    Like on the cingular KIC service.
    They now have voice mail, call waiting.. On and on.

    But to stay profitable for low use customers, they brought the
    minimum monthly amount up to $6.67 a month instead of $3.33 a month.
    (A $10 card no longer last 90 days.)

    That is a direct result of adding services that everyone has to pay for.
    Every customer has access to a voice mail server, text messaging buffer,
    and advanced multi line switching equipment that can tie up a couple
    circuits at a second's notice.
    Even if that person doesn't run up one minute of air time,
    that stuff has to be paid for.
    If he didn't have access to it, then it would take less to
    outfit that customer.

    I am sure that many people would of rather had a reduced airtime cost
    for roaming or in home area, in trade for the increased minimum monthly
    cost,
    than have voicemail and three way calling that they do not use.

    If they had a way for me to write off those features in
    trade for other air time, or roaming benefits,
    then I would do it in a heart beat.
  10. CharlesH <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote:
    > In article <I8KdnY9yp-n_R4Td4p2dnA@lmi.net>,
    > Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
    >>Yes, Pennsylvania has more roads, but at least two SIGNIFICANTLY large
    >>roads, plus another regional highway -- the main branch of the PA Turnpike,
    >>the Northeast Extension, and PA 60 from Butler down to near the Pittsburgh
    >>airport -- are funded extensively by *tolls.* I'd say the percentage of
    >>free roads is much higer in Ohio... (Mileage-wise, anyhow. The only long
    >>stretch of highway in PA that you don't pay tolls on is I-80.)

    >
    > <humor mode, please>
    > "Toll road" .. let's see <check dictionary>... that's a road you have to
    > pay to go on, isn't it? Isn't that a phenomena common to the Eastern
    > U.S. but rarely found elswhere in the U.S.? We have some bridges like
    > that around here (California).


    The Eastern Transportation Corridor is toll. The express lanes on the
    Riverside Freeway - Highway 91 - are toll. One or two other roads
    in Southern California are toll roads.

    (I believe the toll bridges are all up in your neck of the woods. :)

    My 2003 Rand McNally atlas didn't have a list of major toll roads but
    the 2001 book did, and there are plenty of states that aren't back east
    that do have at least one or two such roads.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP: C57E 8B25 F994 D6D0 5F6B B961 EA08 9410 E3AE 35ED
  11. CharlesH

    CharlesH Guest

    In article <fvCdneU51obMLYfd4p2dnA@lmi.net>,
    Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
    >CharlesH <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote:
    >> In article <I8KdnY9yp-n_R4Td4p2dnA@lmi.net>,
    >> Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
    >>>Yes, Pennsylvania has more roads, but at least two SIGNIFICANTLY large
    >>>roads, plus another regional highway -- the main branch of the PA Turnpike,
    >>>the Northeast Extension, and PA 60 from Butler down to near the Pittsburgh
    >>>airport -- are funded extensively by *tolls.* I'd say the percentage of
    >>>free roads is much higer in Ohio... (Mileage-wise, anyhow. The only long
    >>>stretch of highway in PA that you don't pay tolls on is I-80.)

    >>
    >> <humor mode, please>
    >> "Toll road" .. let's see <check dictionary>... that's a road you have to
    >> pay to go on, isn't it? Isn't that a phenomena common to the Eastern
    >> U.S. but rarely found elswhere in the U.S.? We have some bridges like
    >> that around here (California).

    >
    >The Eastern Transportation Corridor is toll. The express lanes on the
    >Riverside Freeway - Highway 91 - are toll. One or two other roads
    >in Southern California are toll roads.
    >
    >(I believe the toll bridges are all up in your neck of the woods. :)
    >
    >My 2003 Rand McNally atlas didn't have a list of major toll roads but
    >the 2001 book did, and there are plenty of states that aren't back east
    >that do have at least one or two such roads.


    <off topic drift alert>

    Of course, there ARE toll roads scattered over the non-Eastern states. But
    speaking as a Westerner, they are the anomaly, whereas in the East,
    they are the norm. I had to explain to my young son why they had a
    place to store coins in the car near the driver (i.e., to have coins
    convenient as you pass toll stations). Kind of like when we visited
    Oregon, and we had to explain to him why someone kept wanting to put
    gasoline in our car when we pulled into the gasoline station....(Oregon
    outlaws self-service... you know, there are all those explosions around
    the country caused by careless drivers fueling their own car :-( ).
  12. On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 22:15:30 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

    >heh, when working for BP many years ago I had some idiot from Pennsylvania
    >get really pissed off at me because gas was expensive at my station in Ohio.


    When I went to Ohio back in June, I thought gas was quite a bit higher
    there than it was here in SC. But I learned when I got back home that
    prices had risen here to the levels I saw in Ohio. I must have
    travelled up there on the day everyone went up on their prices.
  13. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On 30 Jan 2004 16:15:17 GMT, usenetMYSHOES@bizaveMYSHOES.com (Andrew)
    posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >Al Klein <rukbat@pern.org> wrote:
    >: On 30 Jan 2004 00:17:55 GMT, usenetMYSHOES@bizaveMYSHOES.com (Andrew)
    >: posted in alt.cellular.verizon:
    >
    >: >Peter Pan <Marcs1102NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >: >: See what I mean? We all pay monthly for WNP so a few cheapjacks can save a
    >: >: few bucks on signs/business cards/etc.
    >: >: Consider this, it may be cheaper for you, but it is NOT cheaper for the rest
    >: >: of us!
    >: >
    >: >I don't use all the features Verizon Wireless offers. I don't use
    >: >text messaging, Get It Now, etc.
    >
    >: So you don't pay for them.
    >
    >I don't pay *extra* if I don't use them, but you can bet I am paying
    >more because they are available to me. Like all those channels you
    >never watch on cable. If you could pay for just the five or six you
    >actually watch, you might save some money on your bill.


    And if you could pay for only the municipal services you use you could
    also save a lot. There are hundreds of roads I never use that my
    taxes pay to maintain. It's the same idea.
  14. On 30 Jan 2004 18:44:55 GMT, hoch@exemplary.invalid (CharlesH) wrote:

    >"Toll road" .. let's see <check dictionary>... that's a road you have to
    >pay to go on, isn't it? Isn't that a phenomena common to the Eastern
    >U.S. but rarely found elswhere in the U.S.? We have some bridges like
    >that around here (California).


    It used to be a phenonena of the northeast and Florida, but here in
    SC, I just got my PalPass last week for the toll section of I-185 into
    Greenville. They had talked about building that road for years, but
    they could never get funding, so a private company built it and it
    costs you $1.20 to travel its 15 mile length.
  15. On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 03:15:23 GMT, Justin <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:

    >The Ghost of General Lee wrote on [Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:28:37 -0500]:
    >> On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 20:42:23 +0100 (CET), Anonymous via the
    >> Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer <nobody@cypherpunks.to> wrote:
    >>
    >>>In article <Y4cSb.3$pk.2@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
    >>>"L'l John" <je_norrisremove@thishotmail.com> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>So I'm paying more so some other guy can port his number? WTF?

    >>
    >> Why should this be a surprise to you? The telco's have been charging
    >> for bullshit like "Federal Universal Charge", "FCC Local Number
    >> Portability Charge", "FCC Charge for Network Access", and "Interstate
    >> Universal Service Charge" for years.

    >
    >and 911


    I really don't consider that to be a "bullshit" charge. At least it
    services a public purpose.

    (Please adjust your sarcasm detectors before reading further)

    Now how much they charge versus how much it costs? Well, we'll just
    have to trust our government. They know what's best for us.
  16. CharlesH <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote:

    > Of course, there ARE toll roads scattered over the non-Eastern states. But
    > speaking as a Westerner, they are the anomaly, whereas in the East,
    > they are the norm.


    I suppose. I don't think they're much more common in the East, except maybe
    in a couple states.

    > gasoline in our car when we pulled into the gasoline station....(Oregon
    > outlaws self-service... you know, there are all those explosions around
    > the country caused by careless drivers fueling their own car :-( ).


    You can't pump your own gas in New Jersey, either. I always enjoyed getting
    full service while visiting my family in Bergen County, and not having to
    pay full-service surcharges...


    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP: C57E 8B25 F994 D6D0 5F6B B961 EA08 9410 E3AE 35ED
  17. "Andrew" <usenetMYSHOES@bizaveMYSHOES.com> wrote in message
    news:axcuaxcu66022005809@bizaveMYSHOES.com...

    > Seems a lot cheaper than AT&T's $1.75 fee for the same thing, except
    > that AT&T started charging six months before LNP!!!


    True, but it still sucks. Verizon originally stated that if they did add a
    charge for LNP that it would only be about $0.15.
  18. Mike

    Mike Guest

    On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:57:36 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

    >CharlesH <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >> Of course, there ARE toll roads scattered over the non-Eastern states. But
    >> speaking as a Westerner, they are the anomaly, whereas in the East,
    >> they are the norm.

    >
    >I suppose. I don't think they're much more common in the East, except maybe
    >in a couple states.


    I'd disagree.

    For one, I can only think of a handful of toll roads in all of
    California (not toll bridges)...down in Southern California, the ones
    shown on the map as 241, 261 and 73, all three basically in Orange
    County.

    I lived in Sacramento for 7 years, and can't think of any toll roads
    in the state north of the L.A. basin. Both I-5 and CA 99, the major
    north-south arteries in the state, are freeways, and so is I-80 in
    nearly its entire run (excepting tolls for Bay Area bridges)...not to
    mention I-5/10/etc.

    I remember some of the hubbub when they built those toll roads in
    Southern California. It's a political lightning rod in a state where
    driving is considered a right by many. Every so often, someone in
    Northern California talks about building a toll road to relieve
    traffic congestion, but the talk usually dies quickly. They usually
    end up building HOV lanes on existing highways instead.

    Off the top of my head, I also can't think of any major toll roads in
    Oregon or Washington State, or Nevada, or Arizona, or any of the major
    Western states. A quick check of my mapping program would seem to
    verify that.

    Meanwhile, back here where I live and where you used to live, we have,
    of course, the Ohio Turnpike, connected turnpikes in Indiana/Illinois
    and PA, etc. PA actually has 2 different turnpike sections. And of
    course, there's NY's Thruway, and turnpikes or toll roads in many of
    the northeast corridor states, Florida, etc.

    At least in PA, you can use I-80 if you don't want to pay the turnpike
    tolls going across the entire state. There's not really any major
    east/west freeway alternative in northern Ohio, aside from some
    stretches of I-90 and Ohio 2.

    Mike
  19. David S

    David S Guest

    On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:25:40 -0800, "Peter Pan"
    <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> chose to add this to the great equation of
    life, the universe, and everything:

    >"Andrew" <usenetMYSHOES@bizaveMYSHOES.com> wrote in message
    >news:fyzcasdfyrkr38762405809@bizaveMYSHOES.com...
    >> Peter Pan <Marcs1102NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >> : What did you expect? A few demanded WNP for free, and now we all

    >(including
    >> : those that didn't want it or need it) get to pay the bills for those few
    >> : that demanded it. This is America (had to say that or you may think this

    >is
    >> : one of those godless socialist countries), instead of people paying for
    >> : something they use, the rest of us get to pay for it for them.
    >>
    >> The small fee/month is much cheaper than the cost of getting new
    >> business cards printed - and my AT&T phone had become nearly
    >> unusable, so I was going to have to switch anyway. In addition, of
    >> course, I don't have to tell everyone a new phone number.

    >
    >See what I mean? We all pay monthly for WNP so a few cheapjacks can save a
    >few bucks on signs/business cards/etc.
    >Consider this, it may be cheaper for you, but it is NOT cheaper for the rest
    >of us!


    I hate to admit it, but Pee Pee's right. Why should I have to pay for
    something I'm not going to use? Let the people who switch pay a
    (reasonable) fee for it. That would probably still be cheaper than business
    cards, etc.

    --
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "...common sense tells us that posting in any alt.* group, especially this
    one, is assumption of risk as a matter of law." - TJ, Official Lawyer to
    alt.fan.dave_barry
  20. David S

    David S Guest

    On 29 Jan 2004 21:20:08 -0000, lcs Mixmaster Remailer
    <mix@anon.lcs.mit.edu> chose to add this to the great equation of life, the
    universe, and everything:

    >In article <v8Cdnf1DU9ua8YTdRVn-jg@comcast.com>
    >"Bob the Printer" <bdolson@comcast.net> wrote:
    >
    >And now, .20 of each dollar goes to pay down the deficit, which will be
    >around for about another 15 years....at which point, it will probably get
    >bigger. To think that our Founding Fathers threw tea into a bay because
    >it had a little tariff attached. They're probably rolling in their
    >graves......again.


    A deficit that was virtually non-existent a mere three years ago, at the
    end of a two-term Democratic administration.

    (Not that this has anything to do with Verizon cell phones.)

    --
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "Mr. Nixon was the thirty-seventh President of the United States. He had
    been preceded by thirty-six others." - Gerald Ford

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