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Nextel sues Verizon Wireless

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by Peter Pan, Sep 24, 2003.

  1. Male Bomb

    Male Bomb Guest

    > >
    > Well? What's with the browser interface, then? Employee internet
    > gots no news server?


    Dunno, as I do not use Usenet at work... IT can monitor anything you do
    at work, but you know this... Whats the problem with "PHONESCOOPER"
    kinda discreet if ya ask me only Rich knows who is there. And the
    account I post from is not even in my name. soooo... MB
    >
    >
    > Larry W4CSC
    >
    > 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
    > gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
    > conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?


    [posted via phonescoop.com]



    › See More: Nextel sues Verizon Wireless
  2. Male Bomb

    Male Bomb Guest

    I am sorry that is not even a real address, this virus is fucked up...
    MB

    "Justin Green" <justin@cjteam.com> wrote in article
    <vn7cbqcmt5t20d@corp.supernews.com>:
    > I think two were from the malebomb addy and two others were from MS Admin or
    > something and had "malebomb" and peices of a post in the body. I'll check
    > for sure when I get in to the office in the morning.
    >
    >
    >


    [posted via phonescoop.com]
  3. Justin

    Justin Guest

    "Male Bomb" <malebomb@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:vn7f1f2us4fd5d@corp.supernews.com...
    > I am sorry that is not even a real address, this virus is fucked up...
    > MB
    >
    > "Justin Green" <justin@cjteam.com> wrote in article
    > <vn7cbqcmt5t20d@corp.supernews.com>:
    > > I think two were from the malebomb addy and two others were from MS

    Admin or
    > > something and had "malebomb" and peices of a post in the body. I'll

    check
    > > for sure when I get in to the office in the morning.
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    > [posted via phonescoop.com]




    Yeah, I thought about that. I've read that the spambots just gleam the
    usenet for addys, which makes it ultimitely my fault for posting with a real
    e-mail address.
  4. XFF

    XFF Guest

    Scott Stephenson <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:<WwLcb.2266$qK1.2430523@news2.news.adelphia.net>...
    > XFF wrote:
    > > Scott Stephenson <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:<67tcb.2065$qK1.2191045@news2.news.adelphia.net>...
    > >
    > >
    > >>They do claim (again from the web site) "Coast-to-Coast Coverage. Reach
    > >>and be reached in more places across the country within the Verizon
    > >>Wireless National Enhanced Service Area. " Isn't this the upgrade to
    > >>the data network that is only available in a small number of markets?

    > >
    > >
    > > You should start studying the latest coverage maps and stop spewing
    > > mis-information. As explained earlier, the VZW data network and the
    > > entire VZW network are virtually identical, save a very few exceptions
    > > for recent acquisitions. Now do your homework and give it a rest
    > > already.

    >
    > And as explained earlier, the network does not offer the national
    > coverage they claim. No disclaimers appear in the commercials stating
    > that it does not have the same coverage as their phone service. Huge
    > holes, period. Homework done- try the same. Or are you involved in
    > some spewing of your own?


    Hardly so. I'm just setting the record straight. Saying that "VZW's
    data network is only available in a small number of markets" is simply
    proposterous and I called you on it. That's all.

    FWIW, VZW covers 95 of the top 100 markets natively, the remaining 5
    (Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Youngstown, San Juan, and Little Rock) through
    roaming partners. Of the 95 natively covered markets, ALL of them
    have 1xRTT and therefore EN/PTT service. So as you can see, I've done
    my homework a long time ago. It's you who needs to catch up on the
    facts.
  5. XFF

    XFF Guest

    nospam@home.com (Larry W4CSC) wrote in message news:<3f73b479.142528511@news.knology.net>...
    > On 25 Sep 2003 19:02:15 -0700, xff@austin.rr.com (XFF) wrote:
    >
    > >Of course they are. Nobody is questioning that. The America's Choice
    > >footprint includes preferred roaming partners like ALLTEL, USCC, SPCS,
    > >WWCA, AT&T, etc.

    >
    > What "roaming partners"? Verizon deleted all the IN MARKET roaming
    > from their PRLs way back over a year ago because they underestimated
    > how much roaming was going on INSIDE their own system in what I tagged
    > as the DEAD ZONES.


    No they didn't. In my market (CMA075) they include their own native
    network (SID 04119) as well as SPCS (SID 04120) and AT&T (SID 00107)
    for free. If that's not enough, even Cingular (SID 00164) is
    available as a paid roaming partner. In almost all of Texas (except
    El Paso market), all of ALLTEL, all of SPCS, all of AT&T (AMPS), and
    all of USCC is included for free in the latest PRL. Your milage may
    vary, but once again you took an isolated incident and
    over-generalized it to suit your needs. Please stick with the facts
    and leave your anger somewhere else.

    > Every PRL since will NOT roam to Sprint or
    > Alltel, the other two CDMA providers, anywhere inside the Verizon
    > markets.


    Again, not true as a blanket statement. Maybe in your market you got
    screwed, but in much of the country newer PRL's have included more
    rather than fewer roaming partners. Case in point: almost all of USCC
    (even markets not yet upgraded to CDMA) is now included for free as of
    PRL version 50096.3.

    > That's why the PRLs became SO LONG...it doesn't EXCLUDE,
    > specifically, these other carriers, but only allows them in areas VZW
    > doesn't have a PoP.....


    As I have just explained with several examples, this is simply not
    true. There are many VZW markets where competing carriers are
    included for free. You should make your statements less general and
    more specific as you might stand a better chance of being right rather
    than looking ignorant.

    > In the areas around the fringe of the cities, even AMPS service
    > suffered from CDMA as Verizon and Alltel moved their 500' monster
    > antenna farms providing 10 mile solid AMPS coverage down to the
    > 100-150' level on the big, wide-based towers so they could put in a
    > few fill-in CDMAs in the most blatant DEAD ZONES between the big AMPS
    > sites.....which created new DEAD ZONES where there were no fill-in
    > towers.....


    That is actually true to some degree, but an unavoidable side-effect
    of expanding capacity in a given market. A single 500' antenna
    covering 300² mi is good from a universal coverage point of view, but
    would not be able to handle today's demand on the system. Without
    reducing cell size and increased frequency reuse you simply couldn't
    handle all the calls that are being placed.

    > RF isn't rocket science......


    No, but it's still fairly complex and you tend to over-simplify and
    over-generalize the issues to spout your propaganda and express your
    anger. Just get your data straight and stick with the facts and
    you'll be alright.
  6. Evan Platt

    Evan Platt Guest

    On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:51:31 GMT, Scott Stephenson
    <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote:

    >Nextel offers group calling (has done it for years). THis is nothing
    >new. And no matter what people think, Verizon PTT does not work on
    >their entire network. It only works on their data network, and the foot
    >print is much smaller than the entire Nextel network (which offers PTT
    >throughout the entire netwrok).


    However Nextel group call only works on your fleet - i.e. people with
    ABC Construction cannot group call with people on XYZ Towing.

    Evan
    To e-mail me, remove theobvious from my e-mail address.
  7. XFF wrote:

    > FWIW, VZW covers 95 of the top 100 markets natively, the remaining 5
    > (Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Youngstown, San Juan, and Little Rock) through
    > roaming partners. Of the 95 natively covered markets, ALL of them
    > have 1xRTT and therefore EN/PTT service. So as you can see, I've done
    > my homework a long time ago. It's you who needs to catch up on the
    > facts.



    FWIW, and directly from Nextel itself:

    "Nextel Communications, a Fortune 300 company based in Reston, VA, is a
    leading provider of fully integrated, wireless communications services
    and has built the largest guaranteed, all-digital, wireless network in
    the country. The Nextel 4-in-1 service—Nextel Digital Cellular, Direct
    ConnectSM, Nextel Mobile Messaging and Nextel Online®—covers thousands
    of communities across the United States."

    You'll notice that they publicly claim to have the "largest guaranteed,
    all-digital, wireless network in the country." I guess that would mean
    that ther PTT is available in more places than Verizon's (PTT doesn't
    roam). Gee, this makes the suit all the more appropriate, doesn't it?

    Some more from Nextel:

    "Nextel and Nextel Partners, Inc., currently serve 293 of the top 300
    U.S. markets. Through recent market launches, Nextel and Nextel Partners
    service is available today in areas of the United States where
    approximately 242 million people live or work."

    Pretty damn big native network. How does Verizon do in supplying
    markets 101-300 on their native network? My experience is that
    companies put forth the number that makes them look the best, and the
    fact that Verizon stops with the 100 top markets makes a person wonder.
    And the fact that VZ doesn't natively serve 5 out of the top 100, and
    Nextel doesn't serve 7 out of the top 300 doesn't make it sound like VZ
    is ahead of the game here.


    Feel free to continue throwing all of your 'facts' this way- and make
    sure you check out all of the facts, not just one side of the story.
    You see, I might actually know what I'm talking about here.
  8. XFF wrote:
    > nospam@home.com (Larry W4CSC) wrote in message news:<3f73b479.142528511@news.knology.net>...
    >
    >>On 25 Sep 2003 19:02:15 -0700, xff@austin.rr.com (XFF) wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Of course they are. Nobody is questioning that. The America's Choice
    >>>footprint includes preferred roaming partners like ALLTEL, USCC, SPCS,
    >>>WWCA, AT&T, etc.

    >>
    >>What "roaming partners"? Verizon deleted all the IN MARKET roaming
    >>from their PRLs way back over a year ago because they underestimated
    >>how much roaming was going on INSIDE their own system in what I tagged
    >>as the DEAD ZONES.

    >
    >
    > No they didn't. In my market (CMA075) they include their own native
    > network (SID 04119) as well as SPCS (SID 04120) and AT&T (SID 00107)
    > for free. If that's not enough, even Cingular (SID 00164) is
    > available as a paid roaming partner. In almost all of Texas (except
    > El Paso market), all of ALLTEL, all of SPCS, all of AT&T (AMPS), and
    > all of USCC is included for free in the latest PRL. Your milage may
    > vary, but once again you took an isolated incident and
    > over-generalized it to suit your needs. Please stick with the facts
    > and leave your anger somewhere else.
    >
    >
    >>Every PRL since will NOT roam to Sprint or
    >>Alltel, the other two CDMA providers, anywhere inside the Verizon
    >>markets.

    >
    >
    > Again, not true as a blanket statement. Maybe in your market you got
    > screwed, but in much of the country newer PRL's have included more
    > rather than fewer roaming partners. Case in point: almost all of USCC
    > (even markets not yet upgraded to CDMA) is now included for free as of
    > PRL version 50096.3.
    >
    >
    >>That's why the PRLs became SO LONG...it doesn't EXCLUDE,
    >>specifically, these other carriers, but only allows them in areas VZW
    >>doesn't have a PoP.....

    >
    >
    > As I have just explained with several examples, this is simply not
    > true. There are many VZW markets where competing carriers are
    > included for free. You should make your statements less general and
    > more specific as you might stand a better chance of being right rather
    > than looking ignorant.
    >
    >
    >>In the areas around the fringe of the cities, even AMPS service
    >>suffered from CDMA as Verizon and Alltel moved their 500' monster
    >>antenna farms providing 10 mile solid AMPS coverage down to the
    >>100-150' level on the big, wide-based towers so they could put in a
    >>few fill-in CDMAs in the most blatant DEAD ZONES between the big AMPS
    >>sites.....which created new DEAD ZONES where there were no fill-in
    >>towers.....

    >
    >
    > That is actually true to some degree, but an unavoidable side-effect
    > of expanding capacity in a given market. A single 500' antenna
    > covering 300² mi is good from a universal coverage point of view, but
    > would not be able to handle today's demand on the system. Without
    > reducing cell size and increased frequency reuse you simply couldn't
    > handle all the calls that are being placed.
    >
    >
    >>RF isn't rocket science......

    >
    >
    > No, but it's still fairly complex and you tend to over-simplify and
    > over-generalize the issues to spout your propaganda and express your
    > anger. Just get your data straight and stick with the facts and
    > you'll be alright.



    Yeah, Larry- we can't possibly know what we're talking about. After
    all, you've only been using radios for what- 200 years? And me- I make
    the mistake of finding all of the facts before I speak. We need to slow
    down and join the Verizon Zombies (those that choose to take everything
    told them as fact without investigating it).
  9. Evan Platt wrote:
    > On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:51:31 GMT, Scott Stephenson
    > <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Nextel offers group calling (has done it for years). THis is nothing
    >>new. And no matter what people think, Verizon PTT does not work on
    >>their entire network. It only works on their data network, and the foot
    >>print is much smaller than the entire Nextel network (which offers PTT
    >>throughout the entire netwrok).

    >
    >
    > However Nextel group call only works on your fleet - i.e. people with
    > ABC Construction cannot group call with people on XYZ Towing.
    >
    > Evan
    > To e-mail me, remove theobvious from my e-mail address.

    OK- point taken. However, the need for cross-fleet group calling would
    be more of the exception rather than the rule.
  10. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:37:57 GMT, Scott Stephenson
    <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote:

    >
    >Yeah, Larry- we can't possibly know what we're talking about. After
    >all, you've only been using radios for what- 200 years? And me- I make
    >the mistake of finding all of the facts before I speak. We need to slow
    >down and join the Verizon Zombies (those that choose to take everything
    >told them as fact without investigating it).
    >

    All he needs is to bring his VZW toyphone to our Wally World so he can
    watch the Sprint customers and Alltel customers USE theirs...(c;



    Larry W4CSC

    3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
    gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
    conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?
  11. Larry W4CSC wrote:
    > On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:37:57 GMT, Scott Stephenson
    > <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Yeah, Larry- we can't possibly know what we're talking about. After
    >>all, you've only been using radios for what- 200 years? And me- I make
    >>the mistake of finding all of the facts before I speak. We need to slow
    >>down and join the Verizon Zombies (those that choose to take everything
    >>told them as fact without investigating it).
    >>

    >
    > All he needs is to bring his VZW toyphone to our Wally World so he can
    > watch the Sprint customers and Alltel customers USE theirs...(c;
    >
    >
    >
    > Larry W4CSC
    >
    > 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
    > gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
    > conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?

    But Larry- Verizon has the best and biggest network- it doesn't have
    many holes, and all of the holes are covered by roaming agreemnts. XFF
    said so, and he is so much smarter than we are. They have the "can you
    hear me now" guy, and he'd never lie.
  12. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 04:10:23 -0000, malebomb@comcast.net (Male Bomb)
    posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >I am sorry that is not even a real address, this virus is fucked up...


    It picks up anything that parses as an email address, real or not.
  13. Mark F

    Mark F Guest

    nospam@home.com (Larry W4CSC) wrote in article
    <3f74d3bb.216077092@news.knology.net>:
    > On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:37:57 GMT, Scott Stephenson
    > <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >Yeah, Larry- we can't possibly know what we're talking about. After
    > >all, you've only been using radios for what- 200 years? And me- I make
    > >the mistake of finding all of the facts before I speak. We need to slow
    > >down and join the Verizon Zombies (those that choose to take everything
    > >told them as fact without investigating it).
    > >

    > All he needs is to bring his VZW toyphone to our Wally World so he can
    > watch the Sprint customers and Alltel customers USE theirs...(c;
    > Larry W4CSC


    Hmmm Larry...kinds sounds like the "appliance operator" slogan when the
    no-code techs came out and refused to upgrade. lol


    [posted via phonescoop.com]
  14. J A Haynes

    J A Haynes Guest

    I don't know if someone's already posted the link to the CNN article about
    the lawsuit ... I didn't feel like going through all the posts to find out
    .... but if not ... the link is below

    http://money.cnn.com/2003/09/23/technology/nextel_lawsuit.reut/index.htm?cnn
    =yes

    If this doesn't work, I just went to CNN.com and followed the link to
    Technology nears and it was at the bottom ... I believe it was titled ...
    Nextel Sues Verizon Wireless ... I hope this is helpful

    "PDA Man" <pda@theman.com> wrote in message
    news:8yidnY4x9aFlGuyiU-KYvA@comcast.com...
    > Nextel Communications today filed suit against Verizon Wireless, claiming
    > that Verizon Wireless' new advertisements for its push-to-talk service

    make
    > false claims about Nextel's network. Neither Nextel nor Verizon Wireless
    > have yet to comment on the suit. U.S. carriers have stepped up their
    > advertising battles in recent weeks. In addition to the growing fight
    > between Nextel and Verizon Wireless, AT&T Wireless and Sprint PCS have

    been
    > taking pot shots at one another in recent months in an attempt to win a
    > greater share of the mobile enterprise market. Most analysts see these
    > fights as a sign of the growing saturation of the North American wireless
    > market.
    >
    > For more on the Nextel, Verizon Wireless suit:
    > - see this blurb from Reuters
    >
    >
  15. It seems that Nextel is complaining because Verizon says it uses their
    (whole)network for PTT and Nextel claims that it is only using PART of
    their network. Pretty petty for a large corporation. Also, it seems
    that this is just another part of the original Nextel lawsuit against
    Verizon for the use of "PTT" in Virginia.

    --
    Chris

    Please respond on Usenet or Phonescoop.com


    "PDA Man" <pda@theman.com> wrote in article
    <8yidnY4x9aFlGuyiU-KYvA@comcast.com>:
    > Nextel Communications today filed suit against Verizon Wireless, claiming
    > that Verizon Wireless' new advertisements for its push-to-talk service make
    > false claims about Nextel's network. Neither Nextel nor Verizon Wireless
    > have yet to comment on the suit. U.S. carriers have stepped up their
    > advertising battles in recent weeks. In addition to the growing fight
    > between Nextel and Verizon Wireless, AT&T Wireless and Sprint PCS have been
    > taking pot shots at one another in recent months in an attempt to win a
    > greater share of the mobile enterprise market. Most analysts see these
    > fights as a sign of the growing saturation of the North American wireless
    > market.
    >
    > For more on the Nextel, Verizon Wireless suit:
    > - see this blurb from Reuters
    >
    >


    [posted via phonescoop.com]
  16. David S

    David S Guest

    On 25 Sep 2003 14:07:50 -0700, xff@austin.rr.com (XFF) chose to add this to
    the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:

    >Scott Stephenson <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:<67tcb.2065$qK1.2191045@news2.news.adelphia.net>...
    >
    >> They do claim (again from the web site) "Coast-to-Coast Coverage. Reach
    >> and be reached in more places across the country within the Verizon
    >> Wireless National Enhanced Service Area. " Isn't this the upgrade to
    >> the data network that is only available in a small number of markets?

    >
    >You should start studying the latest coverage maps and stop spewing
    >mis-information. As explained earlier, the VZW data network and the
    >entire VZW network are virtually identical, save a very few exceptions
    >for recent acquisitions. Now do your homework and give it a rest
    >already.


    The "Verizon Wireless National Enhanced Service Area" includes many areas
    that are not owned by Verizon and therefore do not provide Verizon users
    with any digital services beyond the basic CDMA phone service (if that --
    some places are analog for Verizon users). No 1x, no data, and no PTT.

    Now, what I don't know, and have not seen a definitive statement of here,
    is if the total area that is Verizon-owned 1x (therefore capable of PTT) is
    greater than the total area covered by Nextel. (And I don't care enough to
    research it myself; I have no use for PTT anyway (I could make use of it at
    work, where they already have Nextel and Verizon sucks in the building, but
    my boss won't pay for it out of our department budget (and I don't blame
    him)).) <-- that is not a smiley, so don't try to figure it out

    --
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    email address adjusted due to the rash of viruses; use the Reply-To
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "I always thought I should be treated like a star." - Madonna
  17. Spam MeHere

    Spam MeHere Guest

    Try these links for sources:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2001743087_walkietalkiesuit24.html

    http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=63347&p=irol-newsArticle&t=Regular&id=451847&





    "Peter Pan" <Marcs1102nospam@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:bksjo6$56k2v$1@ID-190045.news.uni-berlin.de...
    >
    > "PDA Man" <pda@theman.com> wrote in message
    > news:8yidnY4x9aFlGuyiU-KYvA@comcast.com...
    > > Nextel Communications today filed suit against Verizon Wireless,

    claiming
    > > that Verizon Wireless' new advertisements for its push-to-talk service

    > make
    > > false claims about Nextel's network. Neither Nextel nor Verizon Wireless
    > > have yet to comment on the suit. U.S. carriers have stepped up their
    > > advertising battles in recent weeks. In addition to the growing fight
    > > between Nextel and Verizon Wireless, AT&T Wireless and Sprint PCS have

    > been
    > > taking pot shots at one another in recent months in an attempt to win a
    > > greater share of the mobile enterprise market. Most analysts see these
    > > fights as a sign of the growing saturation of the North American

    wireless
    > > market.
    > >
    > > For more on the Nextel, Verizon Wireless suit:
    > > - see this blurb from Reuters
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Where is the URL? I can't find out anything about it. I'm beginning to

    think
    > it is a hoax or urban legend, why it's not even on phonescoop.
    >
    >
  18. J A

    J A Guest

    Actually, you need to dig a little deeper...

    "Largest, guaranteed all digital network..." much like Sprint saying it
    has the "largest all digital PCS network built from the ground up..." is
    mis-leading. Verizon claims it has the largest network... period. And
    they do. However, they still own some (not many, but some) AMPS
    markets, so this allows others to claim the all-digital tag. However,
    Verizon's Enhanced digital network is larger than either Sprint's or
    Nextel's.

    If you would further data on this, Telefia did an independant study of
    all national carriers. They rated Verizon's as best in virtually each
    market tested. Additionally, they rated Verizon as having more of the US
    covered than any other carrier.

    Also, check out the February edition of Consumer Reports.

    The recent JD Power and Associates rankings.

    The Wall Street Journal's testings and rankings.

    Etc.

    Verizon's PTT service is NOT surperior's to Nextel, but it does the job.
    However, when I had Nextel for Direct Connect, I also had to carry a
    real cell phone for when I was out of coverage... which happened often.
    Now its one device... one bill... and, on my company's 14 phones, we are
    saving about $2,300 a month to boot.

    [posted via phonescoop.com]
  19. J A wrote:

    > Actually, you need to dig a little deeper...
    >
    > "Largest, guaranteed all digital network..." much like Sprint saying it
    > has the "largest all digital PCS network built from the ground up..." is
    > mis-leading. Verizon claims it has the largest network... period. And
    > they do. However, they still own some (not many, but some) AMPS
    > markets, so this allows others to claim the all-digital tag. However,
    > Verizon's Enhanced digital network is larger than either Sprint's or
    > Nextel's.
    >


    I think that you should compare the coverage maps- they paint a different
    picture.

    And never said that VZ didn't have the largest network. The information I
    provided in the previous post was in repsonse to someone using figures that
    might paint a rosey picture, until they are compared to the competition
  20. J A wrote:


    >
    > If you would further data on this, Telefia did an independant study of
    > all national carriers. They rated Verizon's as best in virtually each
    > market tested. Additionally, they rated Verizon as having more of the US
    > covered than any other carrier.



    And how can a study be independent when Verizon is one of their customers?

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