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NY Blackout and Cell Usage

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by UsenetMeister, Sep 8, 2003.

  1. Justa Lurker

    Justa Lurker Guest

    It was Fri, 15 Aug 2003 17:01:30 -0700, and "zigfire1"
    <zigfire1@cox.net> wrote in alt.cellular:
    | You mention that T-MO did so well on 911, although not
    | everyone had to make a phone call on that dreadful day.

    9-11 had such a narrow focus that people who knew where
    their loved ones should be they probably didn't place a
    call (unless they were just looking for general welfare
    answers, such as "did you see" and "how are you coping").

    The actual network outages on 9-11 were less. Verizon's
    building and other landline circuits were damaged as well
    as antennas in the immediate area being destroyed. It
    was a concentrated failure.

    The blackout was more widespread. Any failures were up to
    the individual failures of batteries and generators. The
    overload factor was also more widespread. Not only did
    wireless have to deal with too many users on the sites, but
    they had to squeeze all of those calls on limited landline
    connections.

    If the system was engineered for the worst day of service
    it would be severely over engineered for the other million
    days that it is online.

    JL


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    › See More: NY Blackout and Cell Usage
  2. Justa Lurker

    Justa Lurker Guest

    It was Sun, 17 Aug 2003 17:56:40 -0000, and jrAT@jraskin.com
    (Joel Raskin) wrote in alt.cellular:
    | Our landlines ( all 3 lines) worked fine for the first 18 hours
    | - they all went dead around 10am Friday, along with all of the
    | residential lines of those neighbors that I spoke with in mine
    | and the surrounding buidlings.

    That would be when the mini-switch where your wires go ran out
    of power. We had a storm related outage here and our local
    switch ran about the same time before the batteries died and it
    needed a genset.

    My company loaned the telco a small generator to get the mini-
    switch recharged. This was NOT a central office switch. It
    was more of a wiring cabinet that combined copper pairs running
    to our business with others to be run back on the CO on T1s or
    greater lines. Nice because we get a clear signal from a box
    only a mile away instead of 10 miles, but lousy when the power
    fails and the batteries run out.

    | Wouldn't the pay phone be serviced by the same CO and, if so,
    | why would that line have power when the residential lines did
    | not?

    The pay-phone probably was wired by a more direct path to the CO
    instead of being run to the nearest concentrator in a building.
    Or, since it IS a business line, that could account for it's odd
    wiring. Did businesses in the area have service?

    JL


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  3. On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 00:11:34 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
    <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:

    ><snip> also the backup power at nookleyur power plants.


    Do you mean "nucular"?

    Stece
  4. Don G

    Don G Guest

    I was glad to have Verizon this past Thursday :)

    All my T-Mobile buddy's had next to nothing.. At least I was getting my Text
    Alerts from CNN keeping us informed, that it wasn't just our block :) And I
    was able to send and receive text messages-- sometimes taking 2 or 3
    attempts, but they went out.

    Calls were coming in without problems.. Took 2-3 tries to get an outgoing
    call, but it worked. Only downfall was my crappy Audiovox 9500 battery that
    lasts about 5 calls! Luckily I had a backup extended battery fully charged.

    I was very happy with the service! Actually heard a reporter comment that
    Verizon customers had the least amount of problems with cell phones.. And
    that her's (another provider) didn't work at all.

    Thankful to be with Verizon!
    -Don

    On 8/17/03 8:26 PM, in article vk07ab15f9tacd@corp.supernews.com, "Mark
    Filla" <KS4VT@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > Here is another article:
    >
    > http://www.hoovers.com/free/news/detail.xhtml?ArticleID=NR200308153300.2_b07a0
    > 0145d9b1212
    >
    > "Cell phone service once again failed to step up in the face of
    > calamity.During Thursday's blackout that darkened parts of the
    > Northeast, most cell phone subscribers were unable to make calls when
    > they reached for their handsets."
    >
    > "The carriers blamed the ongoing outages on their cellular transmitter
    > stations, which handle cell phone call traffic. "We need electricity to
    > power our cell sites, but when you don't have that, it's out of our
    > control," Nextel Communications spokesman Chris Grandis said.The
    > transmitter stations are powered by electricity, and most have battery
    > backups that provide three to six hours of additional operation. But
    > when the blackout stretched beyond six hours, the stations that were
    > still working went dead."
  5. Joel Raskin

    Joel Raskin Guest

    /dev/null@.com (Justa Lurker) wrote in article
    <3f4057b2.1032824903@text-east.newsfeeds.com>:

    > That would be when the mini-switch where your wires go ran out
    > of power. We had a storm related outage here and our local
    > switch ran about the same time before the batteries died and it
    > needed a genset.


    Hmmmm. I wonder if this mini-switch is in our basement. I live in a
    large building and all of the lines from the CO come into this big
    cabinet in a room in the basement. From there, they are connected to
    wires that run to distribution boxes on each floor, where they are
    finally connected to the wires that run to the apartments on that floor.

    It turns out that not everyone lost phone service in the neighborhood.
    The outages seem to have hit all users in certain exchanges only. This
    might explain why the pay phone did not lose service. I'm too lazy to
    walk across the street to see what its number is. But, I would guess
    this is the reason.

    --
    ======== Joel =========
    www.jraskin.com
    =====================

    [posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]
  6. Neb Revod

    Neb Revod Guest

    In article <vk0cfvmiooiv3a@corp.supernews.com>, mitch_32us@yahoo.com
    says...
    > if you think so,turn power off at your place and try using newer corded
    > phone. then let every one on here know if it worked or not. you might
    > be surprised on what happens.


    If it doesn't have an external power supply or batteries, an analog
    corded phone will work as long as the connection to the telco CO works.
    Period.
  7. David Lesher

    David Lesher Guest

    /dev/null@.com (Justa Lurker) writes:

    >That would be when the mini-switch where your wires go ran out
    >of power. We had a storm related outage here and our local
    >switch ran about the same time before the batteries died and it
    >needed a genset.


    >My company loaned the telco a small generator to get the mini-
    >switch recharged. This was NOT a central office switch. It
    >was more of a wiring cabinet that combined copper pairs running
    >to our business with others to be run back on the CO on T1s or
    >greater lines. Nice because we get a clear signal from a box
    >only a mile away instead of 10 miles, but lousy when the power
    >fails and the batteries run out.


    That's no switch. It is in telco terms a "DLC" - digital loop carrier.
    More often called a SLC after the Lucent trademark.

    In 'Net terms, it's a multiplexer. The copper pairs from your
    POTS lines go to it, and one/two fiber or T1 circuits go
    to the CO with all the muxed traffic.

    Most models do handle payphones, ISDN, etc. But Ma never spent
    much effort to move existing installations to a new DLC; so you
    may well have a mix in any one place.

    One way to tell is to measure the on-hook tip-ring voltage. Many
    in-building DLC's have -24 not -48v supply. This since they are
    running much shorter local loops. (You can have CO-fed loops of
    40-50,000 feet; lots of the US is spread out in a most un-NYC
    fashion.)


    --
    A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
    & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
    Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
    is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
  8. p lane

    p lane Guest

    This is a repeat of my post from last week, but it seems that half of us
    want reasonable rates for service( ie "free" or less)and complain when
    we have occasional outages, and the other half of us want service which
    never fails, and complain when the providers charge enough to stay in
    business, or heave forbid, make a profit. If we are willing to accept
    service rates which have no $limit, (to infinity) then we can have cell
    service which "almost" never fails--this is the old math thing of
    division by zero. To reduce the outage probability, the carriers would
    have to have several times normal usage capacity sitting around, waiting
    for the "odd situation" to occur (the 100 year flood thing), would
    require back up power sources, and then back up's for the back ups,
    etc--of course all this extra stuff doesn't cost the providers anything
    to put in place and maintain, etc. Whether true or not, a talking head
    commented that the various occurrences which came together just at the
    right time last Thursday, couldn't be put together again if everyone
    involved tried to do it again.
    Not to say, that another unusual set might not occur, I guess.

    Sorry for long post, summary is that "SH-T Happens"

    <David> wrote in article <vjo6is39cj852e@corp.supernews.com>:
    > I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) continued to
    > have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did not.
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    >


    [posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]
  9. fred

    fred Guest

    plane@usa.com (p lane) wrote in message news:<vk255bo6hh3c9c@corp.supernews.com>...
    > This is a repeat of my post from last week, but it seems that half of us


    > Sorry for long post, summary is that "SH-T Happens"


    plonk what long post and free SHIT HAPPENS FIRE CD VIDEO

    EMAIL ME YOUR PO OR ADDRESS AND I WILL MAIL YOU A COPY FREE.
  10. Justa Lurker

    Justa Lurker Guest

    It was Mon, 18 Aug 2003 15:48:07 +0000 (UTC), and David Lesher
    <wb8foz@panix.com> wrote in alt.cellular:
    | That's no switch. It is in telco terms a "DLC" - digital loop
    | carrier. More often called a SLC after the Lucent trademark.

    I was hoping the description would be better than my name.

    Our local box serves four T1's (two live and two hot spares)
    plus the regular copper to the business and neighboring rural
    residences (farmland with 3 acre or more lots). The copper
    still can maintain 48k IPS connections unlike many SLCs.
    Prior to the instalation of this box our lines were straight
    copper (with repeaters on the T1's due to distance to CO).

    But when there's no power the batteries run down. The storm
    we had knocked out power all over the county and there were
    simply not enough generators to go around. The telco was
    working 24/7 ferrying generators from site to site to charge
    up the batteries then move the generator to the next site.
    When ours box died they didn't have a spare generator to keep
    us alive. As our business relies on wired phones and T1's
    we pushed and got permission to loan them our generator.

    BTW: Our cellphones never failed. The celltower is a half
    mile away but connected to a different CO (and by microwave
    to the MTSO) and the celco has an on site generator. And if
    it were not for that celltower we wouldn't have been able to
    get ahold of the telco to loan them a generator to get us and
    our neighbors back online.

    I wonder how many businesses would be willing or able to lend
    power to the telco to keep their system running.

    JL


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  11. Kyle Page

    Kyle Page Guest

    My only knowledge of the wireless woes in NY on thursday came from a
    picture of two people next to each other on their phones. The one lady
    had a phone which I identified to be Verizon, and was talking on it
    calmly. The man next to her was holding his Nextel in front of his
    face with a look of frustration. Verizon has stated that calls went up
    400% in NY.

    But I do have a question to pose for someone who knows a thing or two
    about wireless infrastructure. Sometimes, on busy day like 4th of
    July, or mother's day, when the circuits might tend to be busy. I know
    my Verizon phones have had the option of "force analog" or something
    like that where the phone switches to analog manually, with data
    purposes in mind. I do this on those busy days, just to make sure my
    call goes through, thinking that most people are hogging the digital
    tower? Is this a good idea, or do they all get bottlenecked at the
    same circuit eventually?
  12. ZBOXMAN

    ZBOXMAN Guest

  13. Isaiah Beard

    Isaiah Beard Guest

    Nadyne Nelson wrote:

    > I did and my message was sent. Unfortunately, my son has been unable to
    > charge his phone so, for all intents and purposes, he can't get the SMS
    > message I sent him.
    >


    That's why you need a car charger. :)
  14. On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 01:55:11 -0000, mitch_32us@yahoo.com (mitchell friend)
    wrote:

    >if you think so,turn power off at your place and try using newer corded
    >phone. then let every one on here know if it worked or not. you might
    >be surprised on what happens.


    Mine work just fine.


    --
    Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT.
  15. On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 17:56:40 -0000, jrAT@jraskin.com (Joel Raskin) wrote:

    >Our landlines ( all 3 lines) worked fine for the first 18 hours - they
    >all went dead around 10am Friday, along with all of the residential
    >lines of those neighbors that I spoke with in mine and the surrounding
    >buidlings. I'm in Manhattan, on the Lower East Side. I found it
    >interesting - and I'm curious to know why - that the pay phone on the
    >corner was working throughout the blackout, which, for us, did not end
    >until 9pm (we were the last neighborhood to come back online). Wouldn't
    >the pay phone be serviced by the same CO and, if so, why would that line
    >have power when the residential lines did not?


    Because pay phones have highest priority - cops and ES workers have to use
    them when the radio goes *boink* in a large scale crisis, and also have to
    use them for landline calls when somethings too sensitive to discuss oer
    the air in normal times.

    <snip>
    --
    Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT.
  16. G R Jenks

    G R Jenks Guest

    The reason Landline has batteries to run....
    DC power is used for the call... when you are talking.
    AC is what is sent along the line to enable a ring to occur.

    Then a second set of batteries at the CO (Central Office) to start generator
    during emergency.




    "DevilsPGD" <yeahbaby@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
    news:prvqjvoh94su72trovfvqbqf6fc1hctpt0@4ax.com...
    > In message <<bqmpjv8tuk1m8nr1d9925v4d9et42u2p53@4ax.com>> Steve & Susan
    > <moc.enilepip@ykkams> did ramble:
    >
    > >> yea they did if your landline phone had a backup batery

    > >
    > >Sad commentary. At what point in the evolution of our society did
    > >wireline telephones ever require battteries?

    >
    > Personally, I have a two line desk phone which normally "needs" power to
    > operate. However, without power, it can still ring, dial, and the
    > primary handset works. No headset, no speakerphone, no call display, no
    > per-line ringtones, no mute, no hold, etc, but basic functionality is
    > still there. Many/most/all should function the same way.
    >
    > My cordless (one line) has a backup battery in the base, but some
    > functionality (base speakerphone, rotating encryption, multiple
    > handsets, handset to handset call transfer, paging, etc) is lost without
    > baseline power. I have about a week of standby, and about 3-4 hours of
    > talktime on the base and 7-8 on the handset without a recharge.
    > Additionally, the base and handset batteries are interchangeable, so I
    > can pop the battery out of other handsets and put it in the base if I
    > need to go beyond 3-4 hours on the cordless.
    >
    > I have enough UPS based power to run both ADSL modems and my cable
    > modem, external switches and soho routers plus my laptop for upwards of
    > 12 hours (Assuming laptop batteries have a full charge -- If they're
    > trying to charge it puts excess load on the UPS), plus 15+ minutes on
    > all my in-house servers.
    >
    > Oh yeah, this is my apartment :)
    >
    > --
    > If you've had half as much fun reading this as I've had writing it, I've

    had twice as much fun as you.
  17. G R Jenks

    G R Jenks Guest

    The reason the deskset did not require batteries, was that you Cranked a
    generator to charge the line. Remember in elementary school, making a
    battery intercom... Same idea. Sound would not travel as far, the current
    pushes the sound waves to travel.

    "Rich Cacace" <richcacace-REMOVE TO REPLY-@optonline.net> wrote in message
    news:0Jr%a.83568$_R5.31857754@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
    > Steve; It sounds like you worked for the Bell System at one time.
    >
    > "Steve & Susan" <moc.enilepip@ykkams> wrote in message
    > news:bqmpjv8tuk1m8nr1d9925v4d9et42u2p53@4ax.com...
    > > On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 02:05:48 -0000, shoxe427@yahoo.com (Asher Siboni)
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > > yea they did if your landline phone had a backup batery

    > >
    > > Sad commentary. At what point in the evolution of our society did
    > > wireline telephones ever require battteries?
    > >
    > > Bring back the old Western Electric deskset (it didn't need
    > > batteries).
    > >
    > > Steve

    >
    >

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