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Pagers may be better than cell phones

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by PagerGuy, May 15, 2004.

  1. Lawrence Glasser wrote:
    >
    > Isaiah Beard wrote:
    > >
    > > <snip>
    > >
    > > This has always been an illusion. A lack of signal strength indicators
    > > does not mean that you've always got a good signal. it's simply harder
    > > to discern whether you've actually got good coverage on a pager than it
    > > is on a cell phone.

    >
    > Maybe yes, maybe no.
    >
    > It's more of a binary (on/off) phenonenon, rather that incremental.
    >
    > My pager (a 2-way Motorola PF 1500) displays "Receiving Messages" when it's
    > out of transmitting range, and "Storing Messages" when it's completely out
    > of range.
    >
    > And, while not scientifically proven, at least by me, my pager *does* seem
    > to have better coverage than cell phones.
    >
    > I'm frequently in lead-lined, or highly shielded, areas, where *no one's"
    > cell phone gets a signal, yet I'm able to send/receive paging messages.
    >
    > Larry


    Uh, that would be "phenoMenon."

    I must use my spell-checker. I must use my spell-checker.

    Larry
     



    › See More: Pagers may be better than cell phones
  2. In alt.cellular.sprintpcs O/Siris <0siris@spr?ntpcs.com> wrote:

    > So does SPCS.


    Would you happen to have the TAP number? VZW's is archived on Google somewhere
    in the VZW newsgroup. We should do the same with the Sprint number.

    On another note...

    Verizon Wireless has an amazingly useful service called Office Message
    Alert which allows an automated system like an office voicemail system to
    easily send a numeric page to a VZW phone. You dial the OMA toll-free number
    and then send the ten-digit area code plus phone number of the phone you
    are paging, followed immediately by a ten-digit numeric message (usually
    this would be something like the office's main phone number, so the person
    carrying the phone knows to call in). Then you just hang up, and the message
    is sent to the phone over the cellular network's paging channel.

    If SPCS had something like this it would be quite beneficial, especially to
    business customers. I have OMA on my phone as a no-extra-cost option. I have
    to be in digital coverage and on Verizon's network to guarantee I receive
    the message, but that's to be expected anyhow... Does Sprint have a similar
    service?




    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003
     
  3. Stan

    Stan Guest

    "Robert M" <rmarkoff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:rmarkoff-415120.06232216052004@news06.east.earthlink.net...
    > In article <40A6E57A.17FF1C9F@spamcop.net>,
    > Lawrence Glasser <lglasser@spamcop.net> wrote:
    >
    > > Mainly because cell phones have more dead spots than pagers!

    >

    That depends on the animal. 2-way pagers have plenty of dead spots,
    including inside buildings where my cell phone has no problem.

    One way pagers are useless, since they don't offer store-and-forward
    service. How do you know when you're out of area?
     
  4. Stan

    Stan Guest

    "Mark E. Daniel" <mark@atarimax.com> wrote in message
    news:2gohlhF4vdaqU1@uni-berlin.de...
    > In alt.cellular DevilsPGD <lalalaNOSPAM@crazyhat.net> wrote:
    >
    > > Which is weird since cell phones typically have voicemail, and will hold
    > > SMS and voicemail messages until the cellphone comes back, whereas with
    > > a pager, the page is completely lost if it occurs when the pager is out
    > > of range.

    >
    > Unless you use a pager that has ReFlex service. It's a ping-pong type
    > deal...Of course it costs more then your standard pager and service, but
    > you will receive your pages when you get in coverage. When I used to
    > have a pager I went with Reflex from two different companies. I ened up
    > with Metrocall when I turned off the pager and my landline phone and
    > went completely wireless in 2001.


    The down side of ReFlex is when you're in a fringe area. You'll get that
    page, but if the tower doesn't receive an ACK from your pager, you're going
    to keep getting that page. Again and again.
     
  5. Stan

    Stan Guest


    > Works fine but I'd like to see the cellular carriers offer a seperate
    > phone number that goes straight to the numeric paging prompt. It could
    > be another $4/month charge for them.
    >
    > --
    > Jud
    > Dallas TX USA


    Verizon already does. Works great!
     
  6. Stan wrote:
    >
    > "Robert M" <rmarkoff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:rmarkoff-415120.06232216052004@news06.east.earthlink.net...
    > > In article <40A6E57A.17FF1C9F@spamcop.net>,
    > > Lawrence Glasser <lglasser@spamcop.net> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Mainly because cell phones have more dead spots than pagers!

    > >

    > That depends on the animal. 2-way pagers have plenty of dead spots,
    > including inside buildings where my cell phone has no problem.
    >
    > One way pagers are useless, since they don't offer store-and-forward
    > service. How do you know when you're out of area?


    The pager displays "Storing Messages."

    Larry
     
  7. Prilosec

    Prilosec Guest

    You don't give up. My cell phone basic plan comes with .02/msg text
    messaging. I can get, silently, a 150 character or so email forwarded from
    my regular account to my phone. I can also get a "page" on my phone (if
    somebody wants to go through the trouble to do it), and can get silent
    caller ID anytime. This is more than I ever got with a pager. You will no
    doubt find the vast majority of people have come to the same conclusion as
    me---there is not enough of a reason to carry a pager anymore. This is why
    they are becoming a niche market.
    "Lawrence Glasser" <lglasser@spamcop.net> wrote in message
    news:40A8DA9B.1D3DA94D@spamcop.net...
    > Prilosec wrote:
    > >
    > > <snip>
    > >
    > > Sorry, pagers are a dying technology. There is no advantage to them at

    all
    > > for me, and probably not for anyone else fairly soon.

    >
    > UNLESS, once again, you're in a venue where communication is a must, and
    > talking on a cell phone is impossible.
    >
    > Larry
     
  8. On Sat, 15 May 2004 16:36:23 -0500, Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
    wrote:

    >In alt.cellular Please invert everything left of the @ to reply <3yeltrabnhoj@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >> 1) One AA cell runs my 2-way text pager for weeks when used frequently. My
    >> (three) cellphones (Nokia, Palm and Samsung) need to be restoked with a
    >> charge daily, or even more often, if used frequently, even if just in text
    >> modes.


    >Let's be fair: that's because you only use a lot of juice when you're
    >receiving or sending a page and that only takes seconds... a cell phone
    >does a lot more stuff, especially when actually being used...


    Yes, it does... all of which are irrelevant to the task at hand, getting a
    message across, no matter what.

    >> 3) Dead zones are more frequent for cellular than for pagers. When I do
    >> calldowns for my (24-hour on call go-anywhere-in-seven-counties) team, I
    >> always do pagers first because experience has shown that sending 'pages'
    >> and SMS to cellphones results in a high failure rate. I also see this when
    >> I travel in urban areas; concrete canyons block cellular signals much more
    >> than paging signals.



    >Hm. That doesn't make sense - it's all radio transmissions, whether to a pager
    >or not.


    True, but there's radio,and then there's radio.

    > What frequency do pagers run on?


    Various.

    > Isn't it normally 900 MHz?


    No.There is no 'normal', but most POCSAG pagers are VHF.

    >That's pretty close to what a lot of the cellular carriers run... although a lot of
    >them also run on the PCS frequencies.


    Irrelevant.


    >> 4) Paging infrastructure is more robust.

    >
    >This is true.

    --
    John Bartley K7AAY http://celdata.cjb.net
    This post quad-ROT-13 encrypted; reading it violates the DMCA.
    Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT.
     
  9. On Mon, 17 May 2004 05:25:45 GMT, O/Siris <0siris@sprîntpcs.com> wrote:

    >In article <rmarkoff-415120.06232216052004
    >@news06.east.earthlink.net>, rmarkoff@yahoo.com says...
    >> It would be nice if ANY carrier had an honest coverage map that showed
    >> them. They are all ignoring their own "Consumer Code".


    >There's never going to be the kind of map you expect, Phil. That
    >kind of detail is physically impossible to provide *or* guarantee.
    >
    >Too many variables able to induce drastic, and possibly short-lived,
    >problems in very tiny areas.


    Not until we have robots do it for us.

    Hmm... R/C robot aircraft with control via 802.16 flies a grid following
    GPS, with a package of PCS and cellular band receivers for all major
    carriers in a market, for quick mapping of signal quality. Move receiver
    package to a taxi for ground level detail once the aerial survey is done.

    What could I charge for website access to a site which shows the true
    reception, in order to recover costs of the above?
    --
    John Bartley K7AAY http://celdata.cjb.net
    This post quad-ROT-13 encrypted; reading it violates the DMCA.
    Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT.
     
  10. >In message <<DiApc.49020$jU.2837668@twister.southeast.rr.com>> "Stan"
    ><stanncno1spam@noispam.yahoo.com> did ramble:
    >
    >>The cell phone providers are more concerned about dead spots than paging
    >>companies.


    On Sun, 16 May 2004 06:25:15 GMT, DevilsPGD <lalalaNOSPAM@crazyhat.net>
    wrote:

    >Which is weird since cell phones typically have voicemail, and will hold
    >SMS and voicemail messages until the cellphone comes back,



    That assumes total competence in the voice mail system and its notification
    to the cellphone. Here in Portland, it can take *days* for ATTWS, SprintPCS
    or T-Mobile to tlell you there's been a page, or a voicemail is waiting for
    you, if you are blacked out when the first notice is sent.

    > whereas with a pager, the page is completely lost if it occurs when the pager is out
    >of range.


    Old paging systems, yes. ReFlex, no; modern paging systems see you come on
    the net and dump everything.
    --
    John Bartley K7AAY http://celdata.cjb.net
    This post quad-ROT-13 encrypted; reading it violates the DMCA.
    Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT.
     
  11. On Mon, 17 May 2004 11:46:27 -0400, Scott <scottg@nospam.com> wrote:

    >Since you seem to be knowledagble in this are, "dumb question" if I may.
    >On 9-11 I was just about on the GWB when the tragedy began. My cell phones
    >(Verizon and AT&T at the time) were pretty useless pretty quickly but my
    >Blackbery (957) from Earthlink (using Motient/Cingular) never stopped
    >working and allowed me to stay in touch with family. I had a similiar
    >experience last summer during the NYC blackouts.
    >
    >Though I was happy to stay in touch, I was surprised. Does the Blackberry
    >work on differnt towers/transmitters than cellular?


    Yes. Your Blackberry uses a 2-way paging system. Not all do; now RIM is
    pushing Blackberries to GSM and iDEN providers, and reliability will
    suffer.

    >Also, I have
    >considered switching from my 957 to a phone type Blackbery but based on
    >the above experiences, I was concerned. Any thoughts?


    Reliability will suffer, without (in my experience) a significant increase
    in throughput for data.

    --
    John Bartley K7AAY http://celdata.cjb.net
    This post quad-ROT-13 encrypted; reading it violates the DMCA.
    Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT.
     
  12. On Sat, 15 May 2004 20:57:03 GMT, "pemalu" <ayah@frontiernet.nettttttttt>
    wrote:

    >I already have a cell phone that can receive pages at no extra charge and I
    >don't have to try to find a working pay phone to return a page. Why spend
    >extra money for something that my phone can do already?


    Lack of reliability and inferior coverage.
    --
    John Bartley K7AAY http://celdata.cjb.net
    This post quad-ROT-13 encrypted; reading it violates the DMCA.
    Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT.
     
  13. Prilosec wrote:
    >
    > You don't give up. My cell phone basic plan comes with .02/msg text
    > messaging. I can get, silently, a 150 character or so email forwarded from
    > my regular account to my phone. I can also get a "page" on my phone (if
    > somebody wants to go through the trouble to do it), and can get silent
    > caller ID anytime. This is more than I ever got with a pager. You will no
    > doubt find the vast majority of people have come to the same conclusion as
    > me---there is not enough of a reason to carry a pager anymore. This is why
    > they are becoming a niche market.


    I agree that it's a "niche market," but I happen to be in the niche.

    The problem, once again, is that in order to respond to a call/page,
    on a cell phone, you have to make a call... There are times that this
    isn't the way to go. My (2-way) pager's got a complete alphanumeric
    keyboard (ala Treo) and, from what I've found, better coverage, in
    shielded areas, than any of the cell phone carriers provide.

    For ME, it's the right way to go. For YOU, obviously not.

    Larry
     
  14. On Sun, 16 May 2004 23:43:15 GMT, Jud Hardcastle
    <l5i5changethistodash5rbo@xemaps.removethis.com> wrote:

    >In article <BOypc.49206$Dc1.11202@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>, wctom1
    >@pacbell.net says...
    >> Cellphones are banned in many hospital areas, so pagers are de rigeur
    >> for hospital workers.

    >
    >Another case like at the gas station and aboard airplanes--zero
    >confirmed problems but we're going to CYA.....

    <snip>

    Actually, hospitals have logged interference with (800MHz band) cellular,
    but none with PCS (1900MHz band ). Check fcc.gov for details.


    --
    John Bartley K7AAY http://celdata.cjb.net
    This post quad-ROT-13 encrypted; reading it violates the DMCA.
    Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT.
     
  15. pemalu

    pemalu Guest

    yeltrabnhoj@email.com wrote:
    > On Sat, 15 May 2004 20:57:03 GMT, "pemalu"
    > <ayah@frontiernet.nettttttttt> wrote:
    >
    >> I already have a cell phone that can receive pages at no extra
    >> charge and I don't have to try to find a working pay phone to return
    >> a page. Why spend extra money for something that my phone can do
    >> already?

    >
    > Lack of reliability and inferior coverage.


    True. When I had a pager, I would often find myself being asked why I didn't
    return a page I never got.
     
  16. Lawrence Glasser wrote:

    <snip>

    > The problem, once again, is that in order to respond to a call/page,
    > on a cell phone, you have to make a call... There are times that this
    > isn't the way to go. My (2-way) pager's got a complete alphanumeric
    > keyboard (ala Treo) and, from what I've found, better coverage, in
    > shielded areas, than any of the cell phone carriers provide.


    <snip>

    http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_a630-659.php

    There are also other similar phones either out there already, or
    supposedly coming out this year.

    You might even be able to write your own software for phones like this.
    SSH from your phone? :)

    As far as battery life is concerned, I've switched the battery of my
    existing phone to one with 50% higher capacity, and the battery life has
    been phenomenal so far. Doubly so if I only use text messages or email
    between charges. I do not know how the a630 or the like will fare in
    this department, though, but I would presume you can purchase after
    market high capacity batteries for them.
     
  17. O/Siris

    O/Siris Guest

    In article <CamdnQqweI4XqzTd4p2dnA@lmi.net>, sjsobol@JustThe.net=20
    says...
    > In alt.cellular.sprintpcs O/Siris <0siris@spr?ntpcs.com> wrote:
    > =20
    > > So does SPCS.

    >=20
    > Would you happen to have the TAP number? VZW's is archived on Google some=

    where
    > in the VZW newsgroup. We should do the same with the Sprint number.


    I'll look it up and post it. If you call into one of our business=20
    sales offices, they also sell the TAP software, but it sounds like=20
    you're already covered there. You don't *have* to use what we sell.

    >=20
    > On another note...
    >=20
    > Verizon Wireless has an amazingly useful service called Office Message
    > Alert which allows an automated system like an office voicemail system to
    > easily send a numeric page to a VZW phone. You dial the OMA toll-free num=

    ber
    > and then send the ten-digit area code plus phone number of the phone you
    > are paging, followed immediately by a ten-digit numeric message (usually
    > this would be something like the office's main phone number, so the perso=

    n
    > carrying the phone knows to call in). Then you just hang up, and the mess=

    age
    > is sent to the phone over the cellular network's paging channel.
    >=20
    > If SPCS had something like this it would be quite beneficial, especially =

    to
    > business customers. I have OMA on my phone as a no-extra-cost option. I h=

    ave
    > to be in digital coverage and on Verizon's network to guarantee I receive
    > the message, but that's to be expected anyhow... Does Sprint have a simil=

    ar
    > service?
    >=20


    The Sprint Complete Sense offering for home phones has a "Notify Me"=20
    option that sends a message to my phone stating that there's a voice=20
    mail and who called if caller ID info was available. It's kind of an=20
    automated version of what you describe above.

    That's not exactly what you asked, but that's as close as I'm aware=20
    of to what you request.


    --=20
    R=D8=DF
    O/Siris
    I work for Sprint PCS
    I *don't* speak for them
     
  18. O/Siris

    O/Siris Guest

    In article <40AA2FDC.34E4DEEB@spamcop.net>, lglasser@spamcop.net=20
    says...
    > The problem, once again, is that in order to respond to a call/page,
    > on a cell phone, you have to make a call...
    >=20


    Not true anymore, with SMS.

    --=20
    R=D8=DF
    O/Siris
    I work for Sprint PCS
    I *don't* speak for them
     
  19. O/Siris

    O/Siris Guest

    In article <40aa2bd3.624000@news.individual.de>,=20
    yeltrabnhoj@email.com says...
    > Not until we have robots do it for us.
    >=20
    > Hmm... R/C robot aircraft with control via 802.16 flies a grid following
    > GPS, with a package of PCS and cellular band receivers for all major
    > carriers in a market, for quick mapping of signal quality. Move receiver
    > package to a taxi for ground level detail once the aerial survey is done.
    >=20
    > What could I charge for website access to a site which shows the true
    > reception, in order to recover costs of the above?
    >=20


    There was actually a company that tried to setup a cellular system=20
    using balloons and small transceiver stations. Keep the package=20
    under something like 10 lbs, and make it cheap enough that=20
    replacement costs fall below some threshold, and they said it was=20
    doable.

    Apparently, if the package was small enough, it avoided many FAA=20
    requirements. And let the balloons fly well above flight altitudes.

    I can't remember the name of the company. I'm not even sure if=20
    they're still working on it.

    --=20
    R=D8=DF
    O/Siris
    I work for Sprint PCS
    I *don't* speak for them
     
  20. Kael Vaeltaja wrote:
    >
    > Lawrence Glasser wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > > The problem, once again, is that in order to respond to a call/page,
    > > on a cell phone, you have to make a call... There are times that this
    > > isn't the way to go. My (2-way) pager's got a complete alphanumeric
    > > keyboard (ala Treo) and, from what I've found, better coverage, in
    > > shielded areas, than any of the cell phone carriers provide.

    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_a630-659.php


    Cool!

    One problem, however, still remains...

    In my experience, for the areas that I need coverage in, pagers
    still seem to be the answer. As John mentioned, pagers run on
    a completely different frequency range than do cell phones.

    Believe me, if I could carry one unit, that provided me with all
    the features and coverage that I need, I'd do it in a heartbeat!

    Larry
     

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