SIM based phones

Man, you really don't get it. As many have mentioned, WiFi has nothing to do
with cell phones!!! Just because some cell phone service providers also
provide Wifi DATA service hotspots (300 feet range) to computers, PDAs, etc,
doesn't mean that a cell/mobile phone uses Wifi. Mobile phones don't use
Wifi--it is a data protocol that computers use for wireless LAN (short
range) access.

Using the little SIM (identity) card that goes into a GSM phone for other
authentication purposes (like Wifi) is what brought this up and was very
well stated below by saying it could be used for Wifi authentication if you
have some sort of SIM card reader device on your computer, PDA, or whatever.
That's what the article reference below mentions some companies are looking
at doing.

Sorry for the rant...

Steve

On 3/31/04 10:44 AM, in article 1080754978.988072@sj-nntpcache-5, "Quick"
<dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote:

>
> "Drew Cutter" <andrewc@wcoil.com> wrote in message
> news:c4dcid$cgl$0@65.17.190.246...
>>> I believe this is what you're talking about:
> http://www.cellular-news.com/story/10906.shtml ("SIM authentication for
> WiFi's tested"). Apparently they're using the SIM card from a GSM phone to
> authenticate users on a wireless LAN.
>>>
>>> I've never heard of doing that before, but it makes some sense -
> T-Mobile sells GSM phones and also operates WiFi hotspots in coffee shops,
> so by using this technology, they could let their subscribers use the
> hotspots and bill their usage to their phone account, without setting up
> separate authentication on their computers. Of course, they'd need to buy
> some kind of device to let them plug the SIM card into a computer!
>>>
>>> To answer your questions.. the cards used with this system are the same
> type of cards you'd buy to use in a prepaid cell phone. An unlocked phone is
> one that will accept a SIM card from any carrier; when you get a cheap phone
> for signing up with a certain carrier, the phone's usually locked and will
> only accept SIM cards from that carrier.
>>>
>>> Jesse
>>
>> YES . This is what I'm talking about. Thx . Jesse.
>
> So... What's the difference with using the SIM to authenticate a user or an
> ESN?
>
> I guess a SIM would allow you to go to one of these hot spots and
> use *their* phone for access but you would still have to have someone there
> to check out and check in the wi-fi phones. As long as you have to have a
> body there they could just as easily get you account info from any provider
> (or credit card, etc.). Besides, you would have to have some security
> deposit
> for the borrowed/rented wifi phone anyway.
>
> I just don't get it....
>
> -Quick
>
>

 

Ok, I'll forgive you. It's internet and I made the mistake of
leaving out the long pre-amble stating the obvious and re-iterating
where the thread has gone.

1) the OP thought SIMs somehow enable services like wifi and
asked if VZW had SIMs.
2) response was that CDMA doesn't do SIMs
3) the OP had seen references to security and such in the context
of camera phones and thought there was some connection with
equipment capabilities, SIMs and security. Some reference to
authentication where a user might switch from public service to
private service when entering a building/campus.
4) This was probably due to mixing technologies, services and
a specific example.
5) Much of the above was in the context of wifi and possibly confused
with cellular phone service/technologies.

So I don't know of any specific phones that have wifi in there as well.
Certainly wouldn't be surprised that a cellular provider might sell
converged
devices that supply both and provide the corresponding services either
directly or indirectly.

Good idea don't you think? My 7135 is almost there. I have a pda, mp3
player,
trimode cellular phone with an SD slot. Lets say I could shove a wifi card
into the SD (or builtin) slot. Walk into a VZW served coffee shop and
connect
at 11mbps instead of the 28Kbps I average over 1xRTT. What if this was
pretty much seamless. When the device attempts to open a data connection
I get the option of 1xRTT or wifi if its available. I would not want to
have to
go to the counter and pre (or post) pay for it. I would not want to have a
separate account for it. I would want it on demand, by choice, each time
with nothing more than selecting [YES/NO] in a dialog box on my converged
device. I would want to get billed on my VZW bill the same as I get billed
for
text messages.

How might a provider do this?

Well, the OP figured that a SIM would be required.
The OP thought a SIM would be required for corporations to authenticate
users of like, private services.
The OP (I think) originally thought that SIMs were part of or required to
enable these technologies.

SO. My last point/post was that authentication of a converged CDMA
device could be done just as well using the ESN. Has nothing to do with the
technology being used by the device (I think the OP is getting a grip on
that now but still wants to hang on to some vestige of their original
(mis)conception). If the device includes a cellular phone, which is most
likely if we are talking about services potentially provided by cellular
providers, then the SIM or ESN provides a unique identifier to reference
a user's account. There is nothing a SIM provides in this respect that
an ESN doesn't.

sorry for the counter-rant but I'm a bit dissappointed that (after
seemingly inumerable posts) you gave me such little credit and
such a cursory reading of the post.

-Quick


"Steve Johnson" <sjohnson29@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BC90566C.51C1%sjohnson29@hotmail.com...
> Man, you really don't get it. As many have mentioned, WiFi has nothing to
do
> with cell phones!!! Just because some cell phone service providers also
> provide Wifi DATA service hotspots (300 feet range) to computers, PDAs,
etc,
> doesn't mean that a cell/mobile phone uses Wifi. Mobile phones don't use
> Wifi--it is a data protocol that computers use for wireless LAN (short
> range) access.
>
> Using the little SIM (identity) card that goes into a GSM phone for other
> authentication purposes (like Wifi) is what brought this up and was very
> well stated below by saying it could be used for Wifi authentication if
you
> have some sort of SIM card reader device on your computer, PDA, or
whatever.
> That's what the article reference below mentions some companies are
looking
> at doing.
>
> Sorry for the rant...
>
> Steve
>
> On 3/31/04 10:44 AM, in article 1080754978.988072@sj-nntpcache-5, "Quick"
> <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > "Drew Cutter" <andrewc@wcoil.com> wrote in message
> > news:c4dcid$cgl$0@65.17.190.246...
> >>> I believe this is what you're talking about:
> > http://www.cellular-news.com/story/10906.shtml ("SIM authentication for
> > WiFi's tested"). Apparently they're using the SIM card from a GSM phone
to
> > authenticate users on a wireless LAN.
> >>>
> >>> I've never heard of doing that before, but it makes some sense -
> > T-Mobile sells GSM phones and also operates WiFi hotspots in coffee
shops,
> > so by using this technology, they could let their subscribers use the
> > hotspots and bill their usage to their phone account, without setting up
> > separate authentication on their computers. Of course, they'd need to
buy
> > some kind of device to let them plug the SIM card into a computer!
> >>>
> >>> To answer your questions.. the cards used with this system are the
same
> > type of cards you'd buy to use in a prepaid cell phone. An unlocked
phone is
> > one that will accept a SIM card from any carrier; when you get a cheap
phone
> > for signing up with a certain carrier, the phone's usually locked and
will
> > only accept SIM cards from that carrier.
> >>>
> >>> Jesse
> >>
> >> YES . This is what I'm talking about. Thx . Jesse.
> >
> > So... What's the difference with using the SIM to authenticate a user or
an
> > ESN?
> >
> > I guess a SIM would allow you to go to one of these hot spots and
> > use *their* phone for access but you would still have to have someone
there
> > to check out and check in the wi-fi phones. As long as you have to have
a
> > body there they could just as easily get you account info from any
provider
> > (or credit card, etc.). Besides, you would have to have some security
> > deposit
> > for the borrowed/rented wifi phone anyway.
> >
> > I just don't get it....
> >
> > -Quick
> >
> >
>

 

"Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote
> Ok, I'll forgive you. It's internet and I made the mistake of
> leaving out the long pre-amble stating the obvious and re-iterating
> where the thread has gone.

Fine. Maybe "converged device" might have been a better
choice of terms than "wifi phone". Its probably going to be
a phone if it has a SIM or ESN. wifi could be an access
capability of the same device. ==> wifi phone.

No one seems to have a problem with "camera phone"?
What does that imply?

In fact you certainly could have a wifi phone. Symbol has
been making them for years. Of course they don't have
SIMs or ESNs but that brings us back to the converged
device.

I guess maybe I think of it as a wifi phone since I worked on
developing just such a thing. Outside its cellular. Walk inside
and its an H323 IP phone extension on a lan based PBX over
an 802.11b link

-Quick

 

Steven J Sobol wrote:
> Jesse McGrew <jmcgrew@hanshorseprestigepelican.com.remove.animals> wrote:
>>Verizon's Wi-Fi access is, presumably, the same kind of service as
>>T-Mobile's. You find a hot spot, sit down with your 802.11-enabled
>>laptop or PDA, and get online. Your cell phone isn't involved at all,
>>nor is Verizon's cellular network; you connect to Verizon's WiFi access
>>point (located in a store, mall, bus station, etc.) with your WiFi
>>network adapter, and the access point is connected to the internet
>>through a wire link.
>
>
> I'm sure this is correct, but it's still irrelevant.
>

It is relevant to the question of whether Verizon's Wi-Fi "applies to
cell phones", which is what I was addressing.

Peter Pan suggested it did, because Verizon offers Wi-Fi access (which
he alleged was "not the same Wi-fi that's the 802.11x sort"); I posted
evidence that Verizon's Wi-Fi access is plain old 802.11b and has
nothing to do with cell phones.

Jesse

 

Mr Pan is wrong a good portion of the time...


"Jesse McGrew" <jmcgrew@hanshorseprestigepelican.com.remove.animals> wrote in message
news:406b3b58$0$74464$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...
> Steven J Sobol wrote:
> > Jesse McGrew <jmcgrew@hanshorseprestigepelican.com.remove.animals> wrote:
> >>Verizon's Wi-Fi access is, presumably, the same kind of service as
> >>T-Mobile's. You find a hot spot, sit down with your 802.11-enabled
> >>laptop or PDA, and get online. Your cell phone isn't involved at all,
> >>nor is Verizon's cellular network; you connect to Verizon's WiFi access
> >>point (located in a store, mall, bus station, etc.) with your WiFi
> >>network adapter, and the access point is connected to the internet
> >>through a wire link.
> >
> >
> > I'm sure this is correct, but it's still irrelevant.
> >
>
> It is relevant to the question of whether Verizon's Wi-Fi "applies to
> cell phones", which is what I was addressing.
>
> Peter Pan suggested it did, because Verizon offers Wi-Fi access (which
> he alleged was "not the same Wi-fi that's the 802.11x sort"); I posted
> evidence that Verizon's Wi-Fi access is plain old 802.11b and has
> nothing to do with cell phones.
>
> Jesse