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SIM based phones

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by Drew Cutter, Mar 29, 2004.

  1. Man, you really don't get it. As many have mentioned, WiFi has nothing to do
    with cell phones!!! Just because some cell phone service providers also
    provide Wifi DATA service hotspots (300 feet range) to computers, PDAs, etc,
    doesn't mean that a cell/mobile phone uses Wifi. Mobile phones don't use
    Wifi--it is a data protocol that computers use for wireless LAN (short
    range) access.

    Using the little SIM (identity) card that goes into a GSM phone for other
    authentication purposes (like Wifi) is what brought this up and was very
    well stated below by saying it could be used for Wifi authentication if you
    have some sort of SIM card reader device on your computer, PDA, or whatever.
    That's what the article reference below mentions some companies are looking
    at doing.

    Sorry for the rant...

    Steve

    On 3/31/04 10:44 AM, in article 1080754978.988072@sj-nntpcache-5, "Quick"
    <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote:

    >
    > "Drew Cutter" <andrewc@wcoil.com> wrote in message
    > news:c4dcid$cgl$0@65.17.190.246...
    >>> I believe this is what you're talking about:

    > http://www.cellular-news.com/story/10906.shtml ("SIM authentication for
    > WiFi's tested"). Apparently they're using the SIM card from a GSM phone to
    > authenticate users on a wireless LAN.
    >>>
    >>> I've never heard of doing that before, but it makes some sense -

    > T-Mobile sells GSM phones and also operates WiFi hotspots in coffee shops,
    > so by using this technology, they could let their subscribers use the
    > hotspots and bill their usage to their phone account, without setting up
    > separate authentication on their computers. Of course, they'd need to buy
    > some kind of device to let them plug the SIM card into a computer!
    >>>
    >>> To answer your questions.. the cards used with this system are the same

    > type of cards you'd buy to use in a prepaid cell phone. An unlocked phone is
    > one that will accept a SIM card from any carrier; when you get a cheap phone
    > for signing up with a certain carrier, the phone's usually locked and will
    > only accept SIM cards from that carrier.
    >>>
    >>> Jesse

    >>
    >> YES . This is what I'm talking about. Thx . Jesse.

    >
    > So... What's the difference with using the SIM to authenticate a user or an
    > ESN?
    >
    > I guess a SIM would allow you to go to one of these hot spots and
    > use *their* phone for access but you would still have to have someone there
    > to check out and check in the wi-fi phones. As long as you have to have a
    > body there they could just as easily get you account info from any provider
    > (or credit card, etc.). Besides, you would have to have some security
    > deposit
    > for the borrowed/rented wifi phone anyway.
    >
    > I just don't get it....
    >
    > -Quick
    >
    >
     



    › See More: SIM based phones
  2. Quick

    Quick Guest

    Ok, I'll forgive you. It's internet and I made the mistake of
    leaving out the long pre-amble stating the obvious and re-iterating
    where the thread has gone.

    1) the OP thought SIMs somehow enable services like wifi and
    asked if VZW had SIMs.
    2) response was that CDMA doesn't do SIMs
    3) the OP had seen references to security and such in the context
    of camera phones and thought there was some connection with
    equipment capabilities, SIMs and security. Some reference to
    authentication where a user might switch from public service to
    private service when entering a building/campus.
    4) This was probably due to mixing technologies, services and
    a specific example.
    5) Much of the above was in the context of wifi and possibly confused
    with cellular phone service/technologies.

    So I don't know of any specific phones that have wifi in there as well.
    Certainly wouldn't be surprised that a cellular provider might sell
    converged
    devices that supply both and provide the corresponding services either
    directly or indirectly.

    Good idea don't you think? My 7135 is almost there. I have a pda, mp3
    player,
    trimode cellular phone with an SD slot. Lets say I could shove a wifi card
    into the SD (or builtin) slot. Walk into a VZW served coffee shop and
    connect
    at 11mbps instead of the 28Kbps I average over 1xRTT. What if this was
    pretty much seamless. When the device attempts to open a data connection
    I get the option of 1xRTT or wifi if its available. I would not want to
    have to
    go to the counter and pre (or post) pay for it. I would not want to have a
    separate account for it. I would want it on demand, by choice, each time
    with nothing more than selecting [YES/NO] in a dialog box on my converged
    device. I would want to get billed on my VZW bill the same as I get billed
    for
    text messages.

    How might a provider do this?

    Well, the OP figured that a SIM would be required.
    The OP thought a SIM would be required for corporations to authenticate
    users of like, private services.
    The OP (I think) originally thought that SIMs were part of or required to
    enable these technologies.

    SO. My last point/post was that authentication of a converged CDMA
    device could be done just as well using the ESN. Has nothing to do with the
    technology being used by the device (I think the OP is getting a grip on
    that now but still wants to hang on to some vestige of their original
    (mis)conception). If the device includes a cellular phone, which is most
    likely if we are talking about services potentially provided by cellular
    providers, then the SIM or ESN provides a unique identifier to reference
    a user's account. There is nothing a SIM provides in this respect that
    an ESN doesn't.

    sorry for the counter-rant but I'm a bit dissappointed that (after
    seemingly inumerable posts) you gave me such little credit and
    such a cursory reading of the post.

    -Quick


    "Steve Johnson" <sjohnson29@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:BC90566C.51C1%sjohnson29@hotmail.com...
    > Man, you really don't get it. As many have mentioned, WiFi has nothing to

    do
    > with cell phones!!! Just because some cell phone service providers also
    > provide Wifi DATA service hotspots (300 feet range) to computers, PDAs,

    etc,
    > doesn't mean that a cell/mobile phone uses Wifi. Mobile phones don't use
    > Wifi--it is a data protocol that computers use for wireless LAN (short
    > range) access.
    >
    > Using the little SIM (identity) card that goes into a GSM phone for other
    > authentication purposes (like Wifi) is what brought this up and was very
    > well stated below by saying it could be used for Wifi authentication if

    you
    > have some sort of SIM card reader device on your computer, PDA, or

    whatever.
    > That's what the article reference below mentions some companies are

    looking
    > at doing.
    >
    > Sorry for the rant...
    >
    > Steve
    >
    > On 3/31/04 10:44 AM, in article 1080754978.988072@sj-nntpcache-5, "Quick"
    > <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > "Drew Cutter" <andrewc@wcoil.com> wrote in message
    > > news:c4dcid$cgl$0@65.17.190.246...
    > >>> I believe this is what you're talking about:

    > > http://www.cellular-news.com/story/10906.shtml ("SIM authentication for
    > > WiFi's tested"). Apparently they're using the SIM card from a GSM phone

    to
    > > authenticate users on a wireless LAN.
    > >>>
    > >>> I've never heard of doing that before, but it makes some sense -

    > > T-Mobile sells GSM phones and also operates WiFi hotspots in coffee

    shops,
    > > so by using this technology, they could let their subscribers use the
    > > hotspots and bill their usage to their phone account, without setting up
    > > separate authentication on their computers. Of course, they'd need to

    buy
    > > some kind of device to let them plug the SIM card into a computer!
    > >>>
    > >>> To answer your questions.. the cards used with this system are the

    same
    > > type of cards you'd buy to use in a prepaid cell phone. An unlocked

    phone is
    > > one that will accept a SIM card from any carrier; when you get a cheap

    phone
    > > for signing up with a certain carrier, the phone's usually locked and

    will
    > > only accept SIM cards from that carrier.
    > >>>
    > >>> Jesse
    > >>
    > >> YES . This is what I'm talking about. Thx . Jesse.

    > >
    > > So... What's the difference with using the SIM to authenticate a user or

    an
    > > ESN?
    > >
    > > I guess a SIM would allow you to go to one of these hot spots and
    > > use *their* phone for access but you would still have to have someone

    there
    > > to check out and check in the wi-fi phones. As long as you have to have

    a
    > > body there they could just as easily get you account info from any

    provider
    > > (or credit card, etc.). Besides, you would have to have some security
    > > deposit
    > > for the borrowed/rented wifi phone anyway.
    > >
    > > I just don't get it....
    > >
    > > -Quick
    > >
    > >

    >
     
  3. Quick

    Quick Guest

    "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote
    > Ok, I'll forgive you. It's internet and I made the mistake of
    > leaving out the long pre-amble stating the obvious and re-iterating
    > where the thread has gone.


    Fine. Maybe "converged device" might have been a better
    choice of terms than "wifi phone". Its probably going to be
    a phone if it has a SIM or ESN. wifi could be an access
    capability of the same device. ==> wifi phone.

    No one seems to have a problem with "camera phone"?
    What does that imply?

    In fact you certainly could have a wifi phone. Symbol has
    been making them for years. Of course they don't have
    SIMs or ESNs but that brings us back to the converged
    device.

    I guess maybe I think of it as a wifi phone since I worked on
    developing just such a thing. Outside its cellular. Walk inside
    and its an H323 IP phone extension on a lan based PBX over
    an 802.11b link

    -Quick
     
  4. Jesse McGrew

    Jesse McGrew Guest

    Steven J Sobol wrote:
    > Jesse McGrew <jmcgrew@hanshorseprestigepelican.com.remove.animals> wrote:
    >>Verizon's Wi-Fi access is, presumably, the same kind of service as
    >>T-Mobile's. You find a hot spot, sit down with your 802.11-enabled
    >>laptop or PDA, and get online. Your cell phone isn't involved at all,
    >>nor is Verizon's cellular network; you connect to Verizon's WiFi access
    >>point (located in a store, mall, bus station, etc.) with your WiFi
    >>network adapter, and the access point is connected to the internet
    >>through a wire link.

    >
    >
    > I'm sure this is correct, but it's still irrelevant.
    >


    It is relevant to the question of whether Verizon's Wi-Fi "applies to
    cell phones", which is what I was addressing.

    Peter Pan suggested it did, because Verizon offers Wi-Fi access (which
    he alleged was "not the same Wi-fi that's the 802.11x sort"); I posted
    evidence that Verizon's Wi-Fi access is plain old 802.11b and has
    nothing to do with cell phones.

    Jesse
     
  5. Richard Ness

    Richard Ness Guest

    Mr Pan is wrong a good portion of the time...


    "Jesse McGrew" <jmcgrew@hanshorseprestigepelican.com.remove.animals> wrote in message
    news:406b3b58$0$74464$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...
    > Steven J Sobol wrote:
    > > Jesse McGrew <jmcgrew@hanshorseprestigepelican.com.remove.animals> wrote:
    > >>Verizon's Wi-Fi access is, presumably, the same kind of service as
    > >>T-Mobile's. You find a hot spot, sit down with your 802.11-enabled
    > >>laptop or PDA, and get online. Your cell phone isn't involved at all,
    > >>nor is Verizon's cellular network; you connect to Verizon's WiFi access
    > >>point (located in a store, mall, bus station, etc.) with your WiFi
    > >>network adapter, and the access point is connected to the internet
    > >>through a wire link.

    > >
    > >
    > > I'm sure this is correct, but it's still irrelevant.
    > >

    >
    > It is relevant to the question of whether Verizon's Wi-Fi "applies to
    > cell phones", which is what I was addressing.
    >
    > Peter Pan suggested it did, because Verizon offers Wi-Fi access (which
    > he alleged was "not the same Wi-fi that's the 802.11x sort"); I posted
    > evidence that Verizon's Wi-Fi access is plain old 802.11b and has
    > nothing to do with cell phones.
    >
    > Jesse
     

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