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Sprint Free&Clear America vs. VZW National Single-Rate

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by Steven J Sobol, Dec 10, 2003.

  1. JAC

    JAC Guest

    Re: Re: Sprint Free&Clear America vs. VZW National Single-Rate

    Did you ever update your PRL in your phones?

    On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:05:28 -0700, Frank McGirt <fmcgirt@mac.com>
    wrote:

    >
    >Really not trying to cause a flame war here BUT....
    >
    >We used to have the Sprint PCS F&C America Plan and changed to the VZW
    >NSR plan after we encountered several areas in eastern OK and northern
    >MS and AL that dumped us to the American Roaming Network at $3/min when
    >we tried to make a call.



    › See More: Sprint Free&Clear America vs. VZW National Single-Rate
  2. Frank McGirt

    Frank McGirt Guest

    In article <nufhtvor31p6ndk0mh2rl7dbfsbta6bt18@4ax.com>, JAC
    <techguy71-at-mchsi-dot-com@> wrote:

    > Did you ever update your PRL in your phones?
    >
    > On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:05:28 -0700, Frank McGirt <fmcgirt@mac.com>
    > wrote:
    >



    Absolutely!! - about once a month with no change. That was the most
    often given suggestion and I was hopeful it would make a difference,
    but nothing. A Sprint guy in the eastern OK area even told me it was
    happening to lots of other people in the area and they had been in
    touch with Sprint about the issue but it was not resolved when we
    changed to VZW. I think that one needed to get someone at Sprint to
    pay attention to the problem until it got resolved, but I couldn't get
    that kind of help from them and I didn't feel like taking the time to
    beat a dead horse.

    Actually, I had other problems too. I tried uploading my contacts from
    Outlook to the Vision web site address book and it resulted in a lot of
    garbage. I spent a fair bit of time on the phone with several trouble
    reports posted but that never got fixed. So all in all I figured I had
    had enough. And now I am sure I made the right decision.
  3. Frank McGirt

    Frank McGirt Guest

    In article <3fd8befb$0$41292$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>, Thomas T.
    Veldhouse <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > "CharlesH" <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote in message
    > news:bracd411pab@enews1.newsguy.com...
    > >
    > > VZW NSR covers all systems where VZW has any roaming agreement at all
    > > (and you aren't kicked over to ARN to enter a credit card). I assume
    > > that SPCS FCA is analogous. The question is, are there a lot of roaming
    > > providers with which VZW has roaming agreements, and SPCS does not?
    > > Meaning that, in that location, the VZW user's call will go through as
    > > part of their plan, but the SPCS user will be bounced to ARN.
    > >

    >
    > When I used Verizon I was forced onto ARN using AMPS through AT&T while in
    > Dallas. My phone was not configured to autodetect that the Verizon in
    > Dallas used B-side and we used A-side in Minnesota (or is it the other way
    > around?). With Sprint PCS, I have yet to ever be prompted for this. It
    > seems to me that should only happen if a system is not able to associate
    > your ESN with a method to bill for roaming. In any event, I have not run
    > accross such a situation myself (actually, I am rarely finding myself
    > outside of native Sprint PCS coverage, with Verizon in MN, I found myself
    > outside of it all the time) and I have not read of any circumstances
    > (barring the one violent posting in this thread) of anybody ever being
    > prompted for credit card information (which I would NEVER enter over an
    > unsecure AMPS connection).
    >
    > Tom Veldhouse
    >
    >


    Of course as with all wireless service it matters most where you are
    located - where we spend most of our time, VZW is better than Sprint.

    And I absolutely agree that I would never give my Mastercard out over
    an AMPS connection. I didn't when prompted and hence the move to VZW.
    The other thing that was kind of strange was that no other card would
    do except MC - not Visa, not anything else. Almost sounds like
    something was up that was not quite right??
  4. "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >
    >"Jack Hamilton" <jfh@acm.org> wrote in message
    >news:au4htvojnv4ifnmj7dtcrb89gar2o27ec6@4ax.com...
    >>
    >> Perhaps, but they claim that it does not. The description on their web
    >> page says "PCS Free & Clear America Receive additional off-network
    >> roaming minutes for use when traveling off the digital PCS Nationwide
    >> Network. Additional per-minute charges apply for domestic long-distance
    >> calling."
    >>
    >> I don't know how to interpret that in a way that gives free long
    >> distance while roaming.

    >
    >Either do I other than to say that they don't charge me long distance when I
    >use it.


    I went by Fry's Electronics today and looked at some Sprint brochures.

    The generic national rate plan description brochure says basically the
    same thing as the web site - you will be charged for long distance while
    roaming - but says to see your local coverage brochure for details.

    The brochure for Sacramento says "no additional charges for roaming or
    long distance".

    Apparently there are parts of the country where F&CA does not include
    roaming long distance, or perhaps Sprint is just reserving the right to
    charge if/when they add additional service areas.

    The web site knows what area I'm looking for - why didn't it say "free
    long distance for Sacramento plans"?


    --
    Jack Hamilton
    jfh@acm.org


    If men are to wait for liberty until they become wise and good in slavery,
    they may indeed wait for ever.
    - Lord MacCaulay
  5. David

    David Guest

    In article <rf1ltv4si5643eqaeo0rvcgqn5k9n0i6gd@4ax.com>,
    Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org> wrote:

    > The brochure for Sacramento says "no additional charges for roaming or
    > long distance".


    Likely followed by "While on the Sprint Network" which means, when
    you're not roaming, you're not charged for roaming.
  6. David <dlandsdowne@wsys.net> wrote:

    >In article <rf1ltv4si5643eqaeo0rvcgqn5k9n0i6gd@4ax.com>,
    > Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org> wrote:
    >
    >> The brochure for Sacramento says "no additional charges for roaming or
    >> long distance".

    >
    >Likely followed by "While on the Sprint Network" which means, when
    >you're not roaming, you're not charged for roaming.



    I think you missed the earlier context. The complete paragraph is "Our
    PCS Free & Clear America Plans or the PCS Total Wireless Access for
    Business Plans allow you to use your Expanded Voice Coverage Anytime
    Minutes with no additional charges for roaming or long distance." This
    is under the header "Expanded Voice Coverage", which "allows you to use
    other wireless networks to make a call while off the Sprint Nationwide
    PCS Network or Additional PCS Service areas."

    --
    Jack Hamilton
    jfh@acm.org


    If men are to wait for liberty until they become wise and good in slavery,
    they may indeed wait for ever.
    - Lord MacCaulay
  7. "Mark Tetrault" <m.tetrault@verizon.net> wrote in message
    news:62pgtv86blq4cs02nm62s4tptuu5kitapm@4ax.com...
    > Me too until the bills came rolling in for roaming. I was so mad that
    > they lied to my face, that I sold the phone, took a loss, and went with
    > Verizon NSR plan.


    Are you asserting that you were subscribed to F&CA (the new $5/mo option on
    top of F&C plans), and yet Sprint charged you for long-distance (on ordinary
    roaming calls, which are supposed to be covered by F&CA)?

    This is very significant if true. There is a continuing debate in other
    forums on this issue. Sprint's Web site appears to say that F&CA
    subscribers *will* nevertheless be charged for long-distance, but various
    customers (and, I think, Sprint employees) say otherwise.
  8. "Frank McGirt" <fmcgirt@mac.com> wrote in message
    news:111220031005283626%fmcgirt@mac.com...
    > NSR plan after we encountered several areas in eastern OK and northern
    > MS and AL that dumped us to the American Roaming Network at $3/min when
    >
    > we tried to make a call. This happened on my wife's and son's Sprint
    > phones as well so it was not a phone thing. This together with the


    Was this automatic roaming (just dial the destination number) or manual
    roaming (through an operator or by entering a credit card number)?
  9. Frank McGirt

    Frank McGirt Guest

    In article <aMMCb.11773$aw2.6165662@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>,
    Lawrence G. Mayka <lgmayka000@ameritech.net> wrote:

    > "Frank McGirt" <fmcgirt@mac.com> wrote in message
    > news:111220031005283626%fmcgirt@mac.com...
    > > NSR plan after we encountered several areas in eastern OK and northern
    > > MS and AL that dumped us to the American Roaming Network at $3/min when
    > >
    > > we tried to make a call. This happened on my wife's and son's Sprint
    > > phones as well so it was not a phone thing. This together with the

    >
    > Was this automatic roaming (just dial the destination number) or manual
    > roaming (through an operator or by entering a credit card number)?
    >
    >


    After dialing the number we would get the "Welcome to ARN, please enter
    your calling card or credit card number" message. The local provider
    was Alltel Wireless who is part of "Verizon Extended Network" according
    to the banner on our phones. As I said before, the issue was still
    unresolved right up to when we dropped Sprint in favor of Verizon. And
    neither Sprint nor Alltel could help.

    If we went a few miles south nearer to I-40, we got a nice Sprint
    signal (so that is how we had to make outgoing calls) while there is no
    native Verizon service east of OKC until one gets almost to Little
    Rock, AR. Kind of ironic that the local Sprint service was so bad that
    we had to change to a carrier that isn't even native to the area to get
    decent service. We could have changed to Alltel but that wasn't too
    highly rated in our home area of NM. Verizon was the best choice for
    the widest area that we are frequently in.
  10. David S

    David S Guest

    On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:16:13 -0600, "Thomas T. Veldhouse"
    <veldy71@yahoo.com> chose to add this to the great equation of life, the
    universe, and everything:

    >"Bob Smith" <usirsclt_NoSpam_@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    >news:J%%Bb.11384$Ho3.6168@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    >>
    >> "T. Loso" <TraVoloso@NOspamComcast.net> wrote in message
    >> news:LPqdnWOaEvwnl0WiRVn-tA@comcast.com...

    <snip -- name kept just to indicate who we're talking about>

    >> You might try fixing your time on your computer. Your reply showed up with

    >a
    >> time date of 12-31-03 @ 1:09 AM.

    >
    >I think that is likely a problem with your news server and not his client.
    >Hist post showed up for me just fine with the time as 12-11-2003 @ 12:09 AM.


    It appears on my computer as 12/31/2003, 12:09 AM.

    Here are some of the headers from the post in question:

    >NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:12:10 -0600
    >From: "T. Loso" <TraVoloso@NOspamComcast.net>
    >Newsgroups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.sprintpcs
    >Subject: Re: Sprint Free&Clear America vs. VZW National Single-Rate
    >Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 01:09:20 -0500
    >X-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:12:11 GMT (bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net)


    My interpretation is that his computer is set incorrectly and inserted its
    time/date into the post, which Bob's and my newsreaders displayed, but your
    newsreader displayed the NNTP-Posting-Date or your server's X-Received-Date
    instead.

    -
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "Justice is incidental to law and order." - J. Edgar Hoover
  11. In alt.cellular.sprintpcs Frank McGirt <fmcgirt@mac.com> wrote:
    > In article <aMMCb.11773$aw2.6165662@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>,
    > Lawrence G. Mayka <lgmayka000@ameritech.net> wrote:
    >
    >> "Frank McGirt" <fmcgirt@mac.com> wrote in message
    >> news:111220031005283626%fmcgirt@mac.com...
    >> > NSR plan after we encountered several areas in eastern OK and northern
    >> > MS and AL that dumped us to the American Roaming Network at $3/min when
    >> >
    >> > we tried to make a call. This happened on my wife's and son's Sprint
    >> > phones as well so it was not a phone thing. This together with the

    >>
    >> Was this automatic roaming (just dial the destination number) or manual
    >> roaming (through an operator or by entering a credit card number)?
    >>
    >>

    >
    > After dialing the number we would get the "Welcome to ARN, please enter
    > your calling card or credit card number" message. The local provider
    > was Alltel Wireless who is part of "Verizon Extended Network" according
    > to the banner on our phones. As I said before, the issue was still
    > unresolved right up to when we dropped Sprint in favor of Verizon. And
    > neither Sprint nor Alltel could help.


    Sounds like Sprint didn't have any roaming agreements with carriers in that
    area (obviously Verizon did - Verizon and Alltel inked a very sweet roaming
    agreement a few years ago).

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  12. Frank McGirt

    Frank McGirt Guest

    In article <XbGdnawYzM7RJ0aiRVn-sw@lmi.net>, Steven J Sobol
    <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

    > In alt.cellular.sprintpcs Frank McGirt <fmcgirt@mac.com> wrote:
    > > In article <aMMCb.11773$aw2.6165662@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>,
    > > Lawrence G. Mayka <lgmayka000@ameritech.net> wrote:
    > >
    > >> "Frank McGirt" <fmcgirt@mac.com> wrote in message
    > >> news:111220031005283626%fmcgirt@mac.com...
    > >> > NSR plan after we encountered several areas in eastern OK and northern
    > >> > MS and AL that dumped us to the American Roaming Network at $3/min when
    > >> >
    > >> > we tried to make a call. This happened on my wife's and son's Sprint
    > >> > phones as well so it was not a phone thing. This together with the
    > >>
    > >> Was this automatic roaming (just dial the destination number) or manual
    > >> roaming (through an operator or by entering a credit card number)?
    > >>
    > >>

    > >
    > > After dialing the number we would get the "Welcome to ARN, please enter
    > > your calling card or credit card number" message. The local provider
    > > was Alltel Wireless who is part of "Verizon Extended Network" according
    > > to the banner on our phones. As I said before, the issue was still
    > > unresolved right up to when we dropped Sprint in favor of Verizon. And
    > > neither Sprint nor Alltel could help.

    >
    > Sounds like Sprint didn't have any roaming agreements with carriers in that
    > area (obviously Verizon did - Verizon and Alltel inked a very sweet roaming
    > agreement a few years ago).


    Yes, that was my conclusion too - but for some reason both Sprint and
    Alltel claimed otherwise so I don't know. What I do know is that I
    got very tired and frustrated with trying to solve a problem that
    seemed to be of interest to no one but me. Hence the move to VZW.
    And I guess it was just dumb good luck for us that VZW and Alltel are
    service partners with a good roaming agreement between them.

    It has also really paid off in southeastern NC when we travel there as
    it is mostly Alltel there with native VZW starting about 20 miles west
    of us so we either have VZW or Extended VZW everywhere around there.
    Very nice!
  13. "Lawrence G. Mayka" <lgmayka000@ameritech.net> wrote:

    >"Mark Tetrault" <m.tetrault@verizon.net> wrote in message
    >news:62pgtv86blq4cs02nm62s4tptuu5kitapm@4ax.com...
    >> Me too until the bills came rolling in for roaming. I was so mad that
    >> they lied to my face, that I sold the phone, took a loss, and went with
    >> Verizon NSR plan.

    >
    >Are you asserting that you were subscribed to F&CA (the new $5/mo option on
    >top of F&C plans), and yet Sprint charged you for long-distance (on ordinary
    >roaming calls, which are supposed to be covered by F&CA)?
    >
    >This is very significant if true. There is a continuing debate in other
    >forums on this issue. Sprint's Web site appears to say that F&CA
    >subscribers *will* nevertheless be charged for long-distance, but various
    >customers (and, I think, Sprint employees) say otherwise.
    >

    I'm saying that my 1st cel phone was with Sprint. I very carefully asked
    over and over if the paln they were trying to sell me had NO roaming and
    NO LD charges ANYWHERE in the US and they so that was correct. Their
    brochure even said that!!!

    When I got in a non Sprint network area and made a call two months later
    I got billed LD and Roaming. When I complained they told me that I was
    "off Network". I reminded them that I what I was told/sold. They said it
    musta been a mistake as they do not offer NO LD and Roaming "off" their
    network.

    I was livid and stuck with that bunch of liars for a year. And where I
    travel, I was saddled with LD and roam charges for a year. One year to
    the day I sold that shit phone for a loss and went with Verizon NSR 150
    and never looked back.

    Is Verizon perfect? NO, but they are heads and shoulders above the rest.
    I have NSR 400 with Canada and network MOU and NEVER pay LD, roaming, or
    network charges. Great coverage, 2000 free weekend minutes. Life is
    good. Even during my recent vacation to the deserts of AZ, NO LD or
    Roaming.

    Sprint SUX!

    Mark
  14. "Frank McGirt" <fmcgirt@mac.com> wrote in message
    news:131220032208252831%fmcgirt@mac.com...
    > In article <XbGdnawYzM7RJ0aiRVn-sw@lmi.net>, Steven J Sobol
    > <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
    > > Sounds like Sprint didn't have any roaming agreements with carriers in

    that
    > > area (obviously Verizon did - Verizon and Alltel inked a very sweet

    roaming
    > > agreement a few years ago).

    >
    > Yes, that was my conclusion too - but for some reason both Sprint and
    > Alltel claimed otherwise so I don't know. What I do know is that I


    It is certainly very disturbing if Sprint claims to have a roaming agreement
    with Alltel but is not interested in actually making it work. This appears
    to be yet another case that exemplifies Sprint's lack of a reliable customer
    complaint escalation mechanism. You reported a serious bug but were never
    able to get anyone at Sprint to care.

    Does Sprint claim to be ISO-compliant? Would it help to file a complaint
    with ISO--not just about the roaming issue itself, but about Sprint's lack
    of a reliable process for fixing serious customer-reported problems?
  15. Frank McGirt

    Frank McGirt Guest

    In article <wb%Cb.11872$aw2.6290097@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>,
    Lawrence G. Mayka <lgmayka000@ameritech.net> wrote:

    > "Frank McGirt" <fmcgirt@mac.com> wrote in message
    > news:131220032208252831%fmcgirt@mac.com...
    > > In article <XbGdnawYzM7RJ0aiRVn-sw@lmi.net>, Steven J Sobol
    > > <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
    > > > Sounds like Sprint didn't have any roaming agreements with carriers in

    > that
    > > > area (obviously Verizon did - Verizon and Alltel inked a very sweet

    > roaming
    > > > agreement a few years ago).

    > >
    > > Yes, that was my conclusion too - but for some reason both Sprint and
    > > Alltel claimed otherwise so I don't know. What I do know is that I

    >
    > It is certainly very disturbing if Sprint claims to have a roaming agreement
    > with Alltel but is not interested in actually making it work. This appears
    > to be yet another case that exemplifies Sprint's lack of a reliable customer
    > complaint escalation mechanism. You reported a serious bug but were never
    > able to get anyone at Sprint to care.
    >
    > Does Sprint claim to be ISO-compliant? Would it help to file a complaint
    > with ISO--not just about the roaming issue itself, but about Sprint's lack
    > of a reliable process for fixing serious customer-reported problems?
    >
    >


    I expect on paper at least that Sprint is compliant but it will have to
    be someone else to follow up on that. I essentially washed my hands of
    them went we changed to VZW. And it wasn't something I really wanted
    to do because I liked their phones and when we could get on their
    network, the reception was always very good. But with the ARN
    problem, dealing with the local CS store people, and then the Vision
    Web site problems I figured enough was enough. If someone would have
    paid attention to our problems that would have made a real difference
    in my attitude - but they didn't - when I would call to check on the
    progress they would just file another report. One tech told me they
    got sent to Kansas City and would be worked on there. Bet they got
    round filed because I never got any feedback from any of them.

    Oh well, I expect others have equally bad or worse stories about VZW,
    ATT and the rest. I really think the lesson is to pick the provider
    that gives you the best reception in your area and hopefully they will
    be the ones that also provide the best service. If not, go shopping
    and use the 15-day trial periods. I did that with VZW, VoiceStream,
    Nextel, and Alltel in my home area before deciding on VZW. It was a
    hassle but well worth it.

    Thanks for all the responses. I didn't meant to go into this much
    detail and originally just wanted to point out why I went with VZW NSR
    instead of Sprint F&C.

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