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The adventure begins: WAS: ATTWS wants to lose my business.

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by ScorpionKing@attNOSPAM.net, Mar 17, 2004.

  1. In alt.cellular.verizon ScorpionKing@attnospam.net wrote:
    >
    >>Also T-Mobile in your area runs on the Cingular network.

    >
    > What impact would/should this have on my final decision?


    Well, you *won't* be dealing with Cingular Customer Care - you'll be dealing
    with T-Mobile Customer Care. However, your phone will operate on Cingular's
    network if you're in Nevada or California. (Cingular uses T-Mobile's network
    in New York City.)

    This just means that if you want to do your homework, you can ask *either*
    Cingular customers *or* T-Mobile customers in your area about how the coverage
    is (checking with current users in your area is always a good idea). They
    both should be telling you the same thing, unless you talk to some people with
    broken or under-performing phones.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003
     



    › See More: The adventure begins: WAS: ATTWS wants to lose my business.
  2. Quick

    Quick Guest

    "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote
    > In alt.cellular.verizon ScorpionKing@attnospam.net wrote:
    >
    > > I guess what strikes me as odd is that so many here seem to prefer to
    > > attack me instead of recognizing that ATTWS has failed at customer
    > > service.

    >
    > > Quick, what you are telling me is that while I do have other
    > > options, I should work harder and continue to reward a company who, in
    > > my opinion, has not served me well on this issue.

    >
    > No. What he's telling you is that that black mark is going to sit on your
    > credit for seven years -- if they sued and won a judgment, ten. It is not

    just
    > AT&T that declines credit based on stuff like that. What part of "you

    screwed
    > yourself, and it has nothing to do with AT&T" are you failing to

    understand?
    >
    > It DOESN'T have anything to do with AT&T. Sorry.


    So reading the last reply it struck me... Don't mean to pry and not
    asking for details but it's not ATTWS that claims you owe them $97
    is it?

    -Quick
     
  3. In alt.cellular.verizon Quick <dhorwitz@nospamcisco.com> wrote:

    > So reading the last reply it struck me... Don't mean to pry and not
    > asking for details but it's not ATTWS that claims you owe them $97
    > is it?


    Not AT&T Wireless, if it's over ten years old. Craig McCaw was just in the
    process of starting ATTWS back then. He might actually still have been at
    CellularONE. I'm thinking AT&T Long Distance, perhaps.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003
     
  4. On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:19:43 -0800, "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com>
    wrote:

    >
    >"Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote
    >> In alt.cellular.verizon ScorpionKing@attnospam.net wrote:
    >>
    >> > I guess what strikes me as odd is that so many here seem to

    prefer to
    >> > attack me instead of recognizing that ATTWS has failed at

    customer
    >> > service.

    >>
    >> > Quick, what you are telling me is that while I do have other
    >> > options, I should work harder and continue to reward a company

    who, in
    >> > my opinion, has not served me well on this issue.

    >>
    >> No. What he's telling you is that that black mark is going to sit

    on your
    >> credit for seven years -- if they sued and won a judgment, ten. It

    is not
    >just
    >> AT&T that declines credit based on stuff like that. What part of

    "you
    >screwed
    >> yourself, and it has nothing to do with AT&T" are you failing to

    >understand?
    >>
    >> It DOESN'T have anything to do with AT&T. Sorry.

    >
    >So reading the last reply it struck me... Don't mean to pry and not
    >asking for details but it's not ATTWS that claims you owe them $97
    >is it?
    >
    >-Quick
    >


    I apologize as it seems I can not get this point across. ATTWS is the
    only company that seems to feel that I owe this money. There is not
    and NEVER has been any mention of this on ANY credit report of mine...
    EVER!

    In addition to this, ATTWS can not produce any contract, statement
    with my signature or for that matter accurate address as of 1990 or
    1991 showing that I have had service or owe them anything. All I'm
    TOLS by CUSTOMER CARE and A CC SUPERVISOR is that ATTWS shows I owe
    them $97 from either 1990 or 1991.

    Yes they ran a credit check on me, BUT it is only in ther internal
    system that they show this balance outstanding.

    If I had such bad credit why was I able to walk into the Tmobile store
    and a credit card to purchase a Motorola V300 and service? How did I
    walk into Verizon and get a Kyocera 7135 ($500) and service?

    Why is everyone so sure that this is on my credit report? It is not.
    It is ONLY ATTWS that says they show somewhere in THEIR SYSTEM that I
    owe this money.


    --
    Like a game of pick up stick played by fucking lunatics
     
  5. On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:25:04 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

    >In alt.cellular.verizon Quick <dhorwitz@nospamcisco.com> wrote:
    >
    >> So reading the last reply it struck me... Don't mean to pry and not
    >> asking for details but it's not ATTWS that claims you owe them $97
    >> is it?

    >
    >Not AT&T Wireless, if it's over ten years old. Craig McCaw was just

    in the
    >process of starting ATTWS back then. He might actually still have

    been at
    >CellularONE. I'm thinking AT&T Long Distance, perhaps.


    Oh for gods sakes! I still have ATT Long Distance. My problem is not
    with them. I'm only telling you what they (ATTWS Customer care) told
    me. I know I don't owe the money, hell even the CC people at ATTWS
    say it must be wrong. MY PROBLEM IS THAT THEY WON'T FIX IT!!!!!!!!!!
    --
    Like a game of pick up stick played by fucking lunatics
     
  6. <ScorpionKing@attNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
    news:nh9k50t6k46m7n2mv4dd004obkv5cv77do@4ax.com...
    > I apologize as it seems I can not get this point across. ATTWS is the
    > only company that seems to feel that I owe this money. There is not
    > and NEVER has been any mention of this on ANY credit report of mine...
    > EVER!
    >
    > In addition to this, ATTWS can not produce any contract, statement
    > with my signature or for that matter accurate address as of 1990 or
    > 1991 showing that I have had service or owe them anything. All I'm
    > TOLS by CUSTOMER CARE and A CC SUPERVISOR is that ATTWS shows I owe
    > them $97 from either 1990 or 1991.


    No contract, no signature- no claim to money.
     
  7. On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:57:54 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

    >In alt.cellular.verizon ScorpionKing@attnospam.net wrote:
    >
    >> Tough group. It would appear that the same problem at ATTWS

    persists
    >> here in this group. No one seems to understand principle. Why

    should
    >> I pay a bill that isn't mine? If I allow this to go unchallenged,
    >> what happens to the guy who makes 50K a year and $97 is significant

    to
    >> him.

    >
    >You idiot... if it wasn't a legitimate bill, you don't let it *sit*,
    >you *fight* it. If it's sat *unpaid* for this long, yes, it might

    have an
    >impact.
    >
    >Now go away, please.
    >
    >> What some people here propose is that I just pay the money even

    though
    >> I DON'T owe it. How many of you here make a habit of paying for
    >> things you didn't buy?

    >
    >I'm not. I'm proposing that you get a clue. Of course, the fact that

    you
    >are crossposting this into the Verizon newsgroup indicates that you

    are
    >clue-resistant.


    O.K. Sobol, here's the deal. You don't like it don't read it. You
    obviously are not able to understand anything that I've posted since
    you haven't had the facts correct in any one post you've made. You
    suffer from target lock or ADD or something because YOU don't have a
    clue.

    I'm cross posting this to the Verizon group because aside from all
    this off track credit crap I'M NOW TRYING OUT A VERIZON PHONE AND
    SERVICE. My intention was to follow that track, but YOU insist on
    insulting my and focusing on issues that don't exist.

    I've made every attempt to reply to you in a civil manner and you
    persist in side tracking this discussion and taking an unfriendly
    tone. AGAIN, If I disturb you, kill file me so you don't have to read
    it. It's not as if you understand what's going on anyway.
    --
    Like a game of pick up stick played by fucking lunatics
     
  8. On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:13:57 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

    >In alt.cellular.verizon ScorpionKing@attnospam.net wrote:
    >
    >> I have done this on numerous occasions. In checking my credit I

    found
    >> I can sign up for services from at least two of the major three

    where
    >> they will notify you of any change in your credit or when new
    >> information is posted. I get a copy of my credit reports every
    >> quarter. There isn't now, nor has there ever been anything from

    ATTWS
    >> services.

    >
    >OK, you've got me interested now.


    OH Joy!

    >
    >So what are they basing the denial of credit on, if they didn't do a
    >credit check?


    Focus for me now... They DID run a credit check or at least that's
    what I was told. They say there is an outstanding balance owed to
    them by me. I'm not %100 sure WHERE the hell they see this, but they
    claim they do. there is NO MENTION of this anywhere on my Credit
    report. The only way they are seeing this is internally.

    As of yesterday, Tmobil ran a credit check, or so I was told, as did
    Verizon (this is why the cross positng). Both approved my purchase
    and service. No deposit, no prepay, nada. EVEN the ATTWS CC people
    tell me there must be a mistake or at a minimum it should have NO
    effect on my having the service in my name... AND YET, they will not
    fix it. They can show me no proof of the balance owed and better yet,
    no contract that I've ever signed with them.


    >
    >I didn't require a credit check with Verizon in September of 2000. At

    the
    >time, Verizon in Ohio had a policy that if you walked in with a

    credit card
    >with at least $100 of credit available on it, they'd deem that good

    enough
    >to open a regular postpay account. (Sprint did run a credit check,

    though.)

    --
    Like a game of pick up stick played by fucking lunatics
     
  9. On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:16:46 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

    >In alt.cellular.verizon ScorpionKing@attnospam.net wrote:
    >>
    >>>Also T-Mobile in your area runs on the Cingular network.

    >>
    >> What impact would/should this have on my final decision?

    >
    >Well, you *won't* be dealing with Cingular Customer Care - you'll be

    dealing
    >with T-Mobile Customer Care. However, your phone will operate on

    Cingular's
    >network if you're in Nevada or California. (Cingular uses T-Mobile's

    network
    >in New York City.)
    >
    >This just means that if you want to do your homework, you can ask

    *either*
    >Cingular customers *or* T-Mobile customers in your area about how the

    coverage
    >is (checking with current users in your area is always a good idea).

    They
    >both should be telling you the same thing, unless you talk to some

    people with
    >broken or under-performing phones.


    Thank you. Now that is informative. and a good suggestion that I had
    not considered. I am inquiring of anyone who seems approachable on
    the subject. The consensus here in S. CA is that Verizon has the best
    coverage, but that the retail stores are very DMV like in service. I
    like going into the stores and dealing with live humans standing in
    front of me, so I do place weight in that.
    --
    Like a game of pick up stick played by fucking lunatics
     
  10. On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:53:02 -0700, "Scott Stephenson"
    <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote:

    >
    ><ScorpionKing@attNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
    >news:nh9k50t6k46m7n2mv4dd004obkv5cv77do@4ax.com...
    >> I apologize as it seems I can not get this point across. ATTWS is

    the
    >> only company that seems to feel that I owe this money. There is

    not
    >> and NEVER has been any mention of this on ANY credit report of

    mine...
    >> EVER!
    >>
    >> In addition to this, ATTWS can not produce any contract, statement
    >> with my signature or for that matter accurate address as of 1990 or
    >> 1991 showing that I have had service or owe them anything. All I'm
    >> TOLS by CUSTOMER CARE and A CC SUPERVISOR is that ATTWS shows I owe
    >> them $97 from either 1990 or 1991.

    >
    >No contract, no signature- no claim to money.


    And so you see why I'm becoming a mad man over this. They won't
    produce evidence of anything and yet they will deny me the ability to
    have my six year old service in my own name instead of my wife's name.

    My last two courses of action where to write a letter of dispute. I
    did this under protest as I feel put out due to their screwed up
    accounting and policies.

    I've also called the number provided by a poster here, Robert I
    believe, and I was connected with a Mr. John Flynn who claims to work
    in the office of the ATTWS President. He said he was on another call
    and took my number promising to call back. I won't hold my breath.

    It is as if you had purchased BMWs all your driving life, and go into
    a BMW dealership one day to get a new BMW only to be told you own them
    some money from 10 or more years ago and so they won't sell you a car.
    They can't prove you owe the money, it just shows up somewhere in
    their computer, but you don't get to buy a car from them. Your
    favorite car. The only car you ever wanted to drive.

    I will fight it, but I'm sure as hell going to look at Mercedes and
    Ferrari now.
    --
    Like a game of pick up stick played by fucking lunatics
     
  11. On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:47:27 -0500, "Mike in PA"
    <heritageclassic@comcast.net> wrote:


    >As long as your Verizon phone works in your multi-million dollar

    house and
    >you can bill it to your AMEX GOLD REWARDS CARD. Keep us posted on

    that too.

    The Verizon phone does work in my home, but it turns out that I can
    not auto bill pay with my Amex for Verizon. I can with ATTWS and
    Tmobile along with a few other Wireless companies I'm not considering.
    --
    Like a game of pick up stick played by fucking lunatics
     
  12. <ScorpionKing@attNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
    news:acbk505lomegpl6ncb3ihn3lbmaik5pkae@4ax.com...

    >
    > And so you see why I'm becoming a mad man over this. They won't
    > produce evidence of anything and yet they will deny me the ability to
    > have my six year old service in my own name instead of my wife's name.
    >
    > My last two courses of action where to write a letter of dispute. I
    > did this under protest as I feel put out due to their screwed up
    > accounting and policies.
    >
    > I've also called the number provided by a poster here, Robert I
    > believe, and I was connected with a Mr. John Flynn who claims to work
    > in the office of the ATTWS President. He said he was on another call
    > and took my number promising to call back. I won't hold my breath.
    >


    Two other options at this point- file a complaint with both the BBB and your
    state's Consumer Protection Agency. In the complaint, state that you have
    asked repeatedly for documentation of the money owed, and none has been
    provided. When writing the complaint, keep in mind that it will be received
    by AT&T verbatim, and the group within AT&T that receives it will not be
    anyone you have dealt with to this point. The BBB complaint must be
    responded to within 30 days of receipt by AT&T, and be specific- they are
    only obligated to respond to the items specifically mentioned in the
    complaint. If you write the complaint in such a way that documentation of
    the debt is the only resolution, their backs will be against the wall, and
    they will probably credit off the debt to satisfy the complaint.

    Companies hate to see these, and usually will do whatever they can to
    resolve them. In many cases, they can provide minimal documentation to
    support their view of the dispute, which satisfies the agencies involved.
    In this case, I don't think they have that option.
     
  13. Mike

    Mike Guest

    On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:13:57 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

    >I didn't require a credit check with Verizon in September of 2000. At the
    >time, Verizon in Ohio had a policy that if you walked in with a credit card
    >with at least $100 of credit available on it, they'd deem that good enough
    >to open a regular postpay account. (Sprint did run a credit check, though.)


    Hmm, this may have been why I got away with no deposit when I signed
    up for VZW late last year. I don't know about the policy, but I did
    charge the phone on my credit card, which had well more than $100 in
    credit available at the time.

    I also had been a Verizon landline customer in two locations - Ohio
    and Virginia - with no billing problems at all.

    Mike
     
  14. In alt.cellular.verizon ScorpionKing@attnospam.net wrote:

    > Oh for gods sakes! I still have ATT Long Distance. My problem is not
    > with them. I'm only telling you what they (ATTWS Customer care) told
    > me. I know I don't owe the money, hell even the CC people at ATTWS
    > say it must be wrong. MY PROBLEM IS THAT THEY WON'T FIX IT!!!!!!!!!!


    Good Lord... just answer the damned question. Who did you owe the $97 to?



    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003
     
  15. Elector

    Elector Guest

    <ScorpionKing@attNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
    news:9eck50t2krfatb9g5rn1h0iecm95ido4a1@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:47:27 -0500, "Mike in PA"
    > <heritageclassic@comcast.net> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >As long as your Verizon phone works in your multi-million dollar

    > house and
    > >you can bill it to your AMEX GOLD REWARDS CARD. Keep us posted on

    > that too.
    >
    > The Verizon phone does work in my home, but it turns out that I can
    > not auto bill pay with my Amex for Verizon. I can with ATTWS and
    > Tmobile along with a few other Wireless companies I'm not

    considering.
    > --
    > Like a game of pick up stick played by fucking lunatics


    Don't know where you are (California I am guessing) but I pay my
    Verizon Wireless Invoice with AMEX and its real simple to sign up at
    the http://www.verizonwireless.com then register your service and
    then do the auto pay or the credit card payment feature and you can
    also pay it with your AMEX over the air *PMT and it comes from your
    checking or credit card account. There is also like I said auto pay.
    So go to the site and read the services.

    Elector
     
  16. In alt.cellular.verizon ScorpionKing@attnospam.net wrote:

    > I apologize as it seems I can not get this point across. ATTWS is the
    > only company that seems to feel that I owe this money. There is not
    > and NEVER has been any mention of this on ANY credit report of mine...
    > EVER!
    >
    > In addition to this, ATTWS can not produce any contract, statement
    > with my signature or for that matter accurate address as of 1990 or
    > 1991 showing that I have had service or owe them anything. All I'm
    > TOLS by CUSTOMER CARE and A CC SUPERVISOR is that ATTWS shows I owe
    > them $97 from either 1990 or 1991.


    Total and utter bullshit, as AT&T Wireless Services didn't exist until AT LEAST
    1994.

    http://tinyurl.com/3bfhx

    It was Craig McCaw's company until AT&T bought it in '94, thank you very
    much. AT&T Wireless did NOT exist as AT&T Wireless until...

    1994 - AT&T Corporation acquires McCaw Cellular Communications for $11.5
    billion.

    The company *was* McCaw Cellular until then.

    > Why is everyone so sure that this is on my credit report? It is not.
    > It is ONLY ATTWS that says they show somewhere in THEIR SYSTEM that I
    > owe this money.


    Once I re-read the post of yours that I originally read I realized that it
    *wouldn't* be on your credit. Nothing from 1990 or 1991 would still be on your
    report. Unless the credit bureaus screwed up (something we all know NEVER
    happens... :)

    So what's the deal? Is this an old McCaw balance that you supposedly owe?!



    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003
     
  17. In alt.cellular.verizon ScorpionKing@attnospam.net wrote:

    > O.K. Sobol, here's the deal. You don't like it don't read it. You
    > obviously are not able to understand anything that I've posted since
    > you haven't had the facts correct in any one post you've made. You
    > suffer from target lock or ADD or something because YOU don't have a
    > clue.


    I'll accept the criticism about not having my facts straight. Now that I
    understand what's going on, it's an interesting and rather freaky story.

    > I'm cross posting this to the Verizon group because aside from all
    > this off track credit crap I'M NOW TRYING OUT A VERIZON PHONE AND
    > SERVICE. My intention was to follow that track, but YOU insist on
    > insulting my and focusing on issues that don't exist.


    Well, if you had questions about Verizon's phones and service, why not
    just *ask them*? Separately? In a thread that isn't crossposted?

    Complaining about AT&T isn't the way *most* people ask about Verizon Wireless,
    and if you'd just asked the question instead of crossposting the long thread,
    you'd already have the answers you need. So I'll upgrade you from completely
    clue-resistant to partially clue-resistant.

    I *did* come in in the middle and do *not* have access to the very first
    post in the thread. On the other hand, if you'd just posted HERE in a.c.v
    that you were considering Verizon I'd already have seen and replied to you,
    as would a number of other a.c.v regulars, and we might even have offered
    info that you'd consider useful.

    I'm sorry, but this newsgroup and the other cellular newsgroups already
    contain enough off-topic dreck. I'm sorry, but for me, ATTWS discussions
    *are* generally off-topic dreck.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003
     
  18. Mike in PA

    Mike in PA Guest

    <snip the arrogance>


    >
    > My apologies, I realize my original post did sound VERY arrogant. I
    > was only trying to make the point that I'm not some dead beat who
    > doesn't pay his bills. You don't get the nice things in life by not
    > paying your bills. ATTWS services was making me feel like one of
    > those types of people.
    >
    > Cut me some slack would ya? I didn't include the kid of car that I
    > drive or the size of my penis ;)
    > --
    > Like a game of pick up stick played by fucking lunatics


    Slack granted! You're paying for it in this thread.
     
  19. In alt.cellular.verizon ScorpionKing@attnospam.net wrote:

    > Focus for me now


    Yeah, I got it. I am docking myself 100 points for being stupid and failing
    today's reading comprehension class, and another 1000 points for flaming when
    I don't fully understand the situation! Sorry.

    > ... They DID run a credit check or at least that's
    > what I was told. They say there is an outstanding balance owed to
    > them by me. I'm not %100 sure WHERE the hell they see this, but they
    > claim they do. there is NO MENTION of this anywhere on my Credit
    > report. The only way they are seeing this is internally.


    And in 1990-1991 ATTWS wasn't even ATTWS yet, and what kind of nutjobs
    keep records *online* for over thirteen years?

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003
     
  20. In alt.cellular.verizon ScorpionKing@attnospam.net wrote:

    > Thank you. Now that is informative. and a good suggestion that I had
    > not considered.


    Talk to me long enough and I'll surprise you. :) I really am sorry - you
    didn't deserve the crap you got from me. I have been on Usenet for 14 1/2 years
    and tend to not suffer fools gladly, but I was very obviously the fool this
    time.

    > I am inquiring of anyone who seems approachable on
    > the subject. The consensus here in S. CA is that Verizon has the best
    > coverage, but that the retail stores are very DMV like in service. I
    > like going into the stores and dealing with live humans standing in
    > front of me, so I do place weight in that.


    Well, it just so happens that I live in Southern Cali (since moving here
    from the Cleveland area in 2003). I have two lines with Verizon and my wife
    has a line with Sprint PCS. Both of the accounts are in my name, incidentally.

    I live in the High Desert, and our VZW corporate retail store in Victorville
    was just remodeled. I agree to a certain extent with the DMV opinion. With
    cellular stores run by the big carriers, it seems like you generally need to
    pinpoint a good time to go in - for example, the lull at the VZW company store
    in Mentor, Ohio is between 1pm and 4pm, with things getting rather busy at 4.

    Sprint seems much the same way. The Victorville Sprint Store opening was pushed
    back from March to May, so we deal with the Rancho Cucamonga store when we need
    to talk to someone in person.

    Verizon has the benefit that you can pay your wireless bill at the Verizon Plus
    store that also handles Verizon landlines and DSL. It's a convenience issue.

    As far as coverage goes, we've found that Sprint and Verizon both have good
    coverage in Southern California. If you drive to Needles or Laughlin or the
    Grand Canyon on a regular basis, you may want to avoid Verizon because native
    Verizon coverage does not exist on Interstate 40 from the state line through
    Kingman, Arizona... you'll be roaming on Citizens Mohave Wireless, but only if
    you have a tri-mode phone because Citizens is not a CDMA carrier like Verizon
    (they're analog). Sprint's huge Los Angeles network does include coverage on
    that strip of I-40.

    Hope I've redeemed myself...

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003
     

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