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The great "walkie-talkie" wars .... who will win?

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by poboxdc@ix.netcom.com, Oct 17, 2003.

  1. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:14:38 GMT, Name withheld by request
    <none@none.com> wrote:

    >Ham here too, only since 1990 KB0GNK
    >I do agree with you about the poor front ends in most amateur
    >equipment because of what you state, that most hams also want
    >their xcvrs to work as "scanners". This one paging company
    >that I'm referring to, is known to "tweak" their deviation though.
    >They've been popped by the FCC a few times. Less than a mile
    >from their main tower is a broadcast FM studio for a local university.
    >The chief engineer there is a stickler for a good clean quality
    >signal. So much so, that anytime I'm in the market for an FM
    >receiver, speakers etc, I use his station as a test. (PBS station).
    >He has probably the cleanest FM signal in town.


    Running on public funds, he probably has broadcast's biggest budget,
    too!...(c; I've worked for stations where the owner would be mad as
    hell if you bought a new 833A final amp tube that would still light
    up. He wasn't concerned that there wasn't any plate current...(c;
    Buying a PAIR of 833As for the modulator would send him into orbit
    unless he was staring at an FCC citation for the old tube's
    distortion.
    >
    >Most hams around our area, can really cut the front end noise by
    >using a single band antenna now, because all of our public service
    >agencies have quit using VHF and UHF and have gone to 800 mhz
    >trunked radio.
    >


    Look around local radio shops for the light beige DB Products
    low-split VHF cavities. Put two slugs in them and pass the signal
    through it. If you ground the can, the radio isn't even hooked to the
    antenna for the thunderstorms. My packet node was the ONLY piece of
    equipment that survived a direct hit that took out the whole
    candelabra, all the paging system, the tower lighting equipment, a
    6-cylinder Onan diesel power plant and all its equipment and melted
    the power company lines to the pole! We figured the Alinco DR-110,
    little ham linear and MFJ TNC survived because they were running off a
    deepcycle boat battery with a cheap charger and none of it was
    actually hooked to ground just sitting in a metal cabinet that was
    sitting on the deck in the paging building. Hell, when the duty tech
    opened the door to the smoke filled building, he shook his head
    because he could still hear packets being received and the little
    transmitter clicking forwarding them through the pieces of hard line
    up the tower! The packet was still on the air until the battery went
    dead 3 DAYS LATER!...(c;



    Larry W4CSC

    3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
    gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
    conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?



    › See More: The great "walkie-talkie" wars .... who will win?
  2. JRW

    JRW Guest

    Larry W4CSC wrote:
    > I've watched an HT-220 fall from 1800' up a TV tower, bounce about
    > 250' into the air right after the battery separated and went a
    > different way. It took some hunting to find the battery pack, but
    > when it was plugged into the HT-220, it functioned flawlessly. Would
    > you expect anything less from REAL Motorola equipment?....(c;


    I'm surprised the battery pack popped off.
  3. "Larry W4CSC" <nospam@home.com> wrote in message
    news:3f9492c2.132219620@news.knology.net...
    > On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:04:16 GMT, JRW <no_addy@no_.com> wrote:


    > There's no delay in an FM repeater system.


    There was on ours and on most, if not all of the public safety systems I
    used to monitor. Only .25 to .5 seconds, but not as quick as a simplex
    system. Most of these were going through satellite receivers with voters, so
    that probably contributed.


    --
    Thomas M. Goethe
  4. Jer

    Jer Guest

    JRW wrote:

    > I miss the old IMTS mobiles. Signal was so clear it was impossible for
    > someone to tell you were mobile. So clean you could sent DTMF. But...
    > with only forty or so non-compatible channels in the Dallas and Fort
    > worth area, it was a technolgy that was soon to expire.
    >


    TLD-1100 trunk unit w/20 watt tube transmitter, push-button FACS control
    head w/digital channel readout & electronic ringer, standard corded
    handset. The beige one was VHF 5-channel roamer and the black one was
    UHF 12-channel local only. Yeah, I had helper springs on that Mercury,
    but dial tone was sweet music.


    --
    jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' ICQ = 35253273
    "All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
    what we know." -- Richard Wilbur
  5. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:36:59 -0400, "Thomas M. Goethe"
    <xspamgoethe11xxxxxx@lycos.com> wrote:

    >"Larry W4CSC" <nospam@home.com> wrote in message
    >news:3f9492c2.132219620@news.knology.net...
    >> On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:04:16 GMT, JRW <no_addy@no_.com> wrote:

    >
    >> There's no delay in an FM repeater system.

    >
    > There was on ours and on most, if not all of the public safety systems I
    >used to monitor. Only .25 to .5 seconds, but not as quick as a simplex
    >system. Most of these were going through satellite receivers with voters, so
    >that probably contributed.
    >
    >

    Those are trunked radio systems, setup so many different users can
    share common equipment......like Nextel has.

    There's a setup and switch time because they all frequency hop around
    to vacant channels on each transmission.....making the cops hard to
    follow on a regular scanner.....



    Larry W4CSC

    3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
    gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
    conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?
  6. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:27:05 -0500, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:

    >JRW wrote:
    >
    >> I miss the old IMTS mobiles. Signal was so clear it was impossible for
    >> someone to tell you were mobile. So clean you could sent DTMF. But...
    >> with only forty or so non-compatible channels in the Dallas and Fort
    >> worth area, it was a technolgy that was soon to expire.
    >>

    >
    >TLD-1100 trunk unit w/20 watt tube transmitter, push-button FACS control
    >head w/digital channel readout & electronic ringer, standard corded
    >handset. The beige one was VHF 5-channel roamer and the black one was
    >UHF 12-channel local only. Yeah, I had helper springs on that Mercury,
    >but dial tone was sweet music.
    >

    Remember sneaking into a store and standing in line worrying over
    whether there would be enough battery left to crank it when the line
    stalled in the store?....(c;

    Happiness is a running dynamotor.....



    Larry W4CSC

    3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
    gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
    conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?
  7. JRW

    JRW Guest

    Larry W4CSC wrote:
    > Remember sneaking into a store and standing in line worrying over
    > whether there would be enough battery left to crank it when the line
    > stalled in the store?....(c;


    No, but i did make the mistake of leaving both of my trunk mounted
    units (with that vacuum tube in the final), my solid state Micor,
    and truck stereo running for a few hours while working on a tower
    eight miles from a dirt farm road.

    Was able to break off the lock of the propane Onan. Of course, I
    didn't have any jumper cables - So I took the battery out of my
    truck, and connected to the Onan with some RG-8 coax to charge it.

    Back in high school, my old "Twin-V" VHF would dim the lights on
    my Karmin Gia (sporty body Volkswagon) when transmitting.
  8. Jer

    Jer Guest

    Larry W4CSC wrote:

    > On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:27:05 -0500, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:


    >>TLD-1100 trunk unit w/20 watt tube transmitter, push-button FACS control
    >>head w/digital channel readout & electronic ringer, standard corded
    >>handset. The beige one was VHF 5-channel roamer and the black one was
    >>UHF 12-channel local only. Yeah, I had helper springs on that Mercury,
    >>but dial tone was sweet music.
    >>

    >
    > Remember sneaking into a store and standing in line worrying over
    > whether there would be enough battery left to crank it when the line
    > stalled in the store?....(c;
    >
    > Happiness is a running dynamotor.....



    The only time I get stranded was when I left the car at a service shop.
    They couldn't start it when they wanted to and jumped it. Jumped it
    again when I went back to pick it up. And they complained about it
    ringing a lot, but were afraid to touch it. After that, I had it
    rewired so the finals were only hot when the ignition was on. Oh, and I
    had to replace the alternator several times as well.

    And here's the cool part. For a while I also had a 2-ch Moto PT-400 on
    RCC. One extended road trip I had to use a rental and took it with me,
    along with a VHF 2M rig w/140w amp and a vertical co-phased whip on a
    trunk-lip mount. Flat tire just north of the Red River, jack was
    jammed. I couldn't raise any RCC with the native 10w on the 400, so I
    re-routed the coax to the VHF whip. Still no joy. So I added the amp
    and Dallas RCC was crystal, and they billed for the six LD calls to find
    a tow truck. Oh, and if the FCC is reading this, I only did it once. :)

    --
    jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' ICQ = 35253273
    "All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
    what we know." -- Richard Wilbur
  9. "Larry W4CSC" <nospam@home.com> wrote in message
    news:3f95bc71.208438554@news.knology.net...
    > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:36:59 -0400, "Thomas M. Goethe"


    > > There was on ours and on most, if not all of the public safety

    systems I
    > >used to monitor. Only .25 to .5 seconds, but not as quick as a simplex
    > >system. Most of these were going through satellite receivers with voters,

    so
    > >that probably contributed.
    > >
    > >

    > Those are trunked radio systems, setup so many different users can
    > share common equipment......like Nextel has.


    Not the ones I was using that I referred to. All of them ran at 452.975
    out and 457.975 in as I recall.

    The first repeater system we had used one repeater and no satellites
    receivers. It had the fastest response time. Almost, but not quite instant
    when pressing the PTT.

    The second had one repeater, three satellite receivers, one voter. It
    was wired together with telco circuits. This one had maybe a quarter second
    lag.

    The last setup we used had three repeaters simulcasting on 452.975. I
    seem to recall that that were two voters polling into a master someplace
    that attempted to keep everything in sync. There were quite a few
    satellites. We were trying to cover five counties (which in FL can be big)
    with five watt portables. Yes, five watt, the MX-330's came in five watts
    uhf and six in vhf. We had Convertacoms in the cars with 60 watt Henry amps.
    The last system never worked right, largely due to the fact we were trying
    to run it over phone lines. It we could have gotten a license for some
    microwave links, they might have been able to control some of the
    heterodyning (sp?) that we were getting. Just like Santa, the FM capture
    effect can not be relied on.

    The lag of this one was less than a half second, but since all of it
    didn't always key up, it sometimes didn't matter.

    It was one of the most ambitious non-state or Federal system Motorola
    tried to do in these parts and they never got it to work. The final proposal
    to make it work (which was put together by engineers rather than salesmen)
    involved about four more repeaters and satellite links for everything thing.

    And no, we did not share this system with anyone else, it was strictly
    ours.


    --
    Thomas M. Goethe


    --
    Thomas M. Goethe
  10. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:42:35 GMT, JRW <no_addy@no_.com> wrote:

    >
    >Back in high school, my old "Twin-V" VHF would dim the lights on
    >my Karmin Gia (sporty body Volkswagon) when transmitting.
    >

    Right after I made ETN2 (2nd class petty officer) USN, I tossed
    caution to the wind and bought a new VW Campmobile, the German factory
    model, from a local VW dealer. Looking back, I got screwed because I
    had no idea how to bargain price at the time....just a kid.

    It was the VW bus with the split windshield, 1966 with the pop-top
    camper. I later got a more modern one after a couple years without my
    beloved camper because I missed it so much.

    The storage compartment under the fold-down rear seat that made the
    bed JUST FIT a full-sized GM bus battery (probably a D-8 but not sure)
    that was like 650AH. A hole in the firewall into the engine
    compartment to parallel it with the little VW battery with welding
    cables. I no longer needed power to go camping....(c;

    The VW's little generator (no alternators them days) never dropped off
    its full load output of something like 20-25A for years......

    IMTS wouldn't have run it down, either.....(c;



    Larry W4CSC

    3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
    gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
    conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?
  11. JRW

    JRW Guest

    Jer wrote:
    > I couldn't raise any RCC with the native 10w on the 400, so I
    > re-routed the coax to the VHF whip. Still no joy. So I added the amp
    > and Dallas RCC was crystal, and they billed for the six LD calls to find
    > a tow truck. Oh, and if the FCC is reading this, I only did it once. :)


    Now that was certainly quick thinking! Texas RCCs usually ran near the
    top of 1,000 towers and had execellent range, not like Denton GTE that
    ran two IMTS VHF channels on a 50' stick.

    I was at a very remote telco MTS site and had to call back to toll-test
    board and ended up plugging my mobile into the feed line at the bottom
    of a 400' tower on a 500' hilltop. Mobile operators from all across the
    state were answering me.
  12. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:13:54 -0400, "Thomas M. Goethe"
    <xspamgoethe11xxxxxx@lycos.com> wrote:

    >
    > The last setup we used had three repeaters simulcasting on 452.975. I
    >seem to recall that that were two voters polling into a master someplace
    >that attempted to keep everything in sync. There were quite a few
    >satellites. We were trying to cover five counties (which in FL can be big)
    >with five watt portables. Yes, five watt, the MX-330's came in five watts
    >uhf and six in vhf. We had Convertacoms in the cars with 60 watt Henry amps.
    >The last system never worked right, largely due to the fact we were trying
    >to run it over phone lines. It we could have gotten a license for some
    >microwave links, they might have been able to control some of the
    >heterodyning (sp?) that we were getting. Just like Santa, the FM capture
    >effect can not be relied on.


    Hmm...When simulcasting big transmitters, there should have been high
    stability ovened oscillators in all transmitters setup within a few hz
    of each other. Paging companies all simulcast lots of 500W
    transmitters to cover an area with lots of high powered overlap. One
    of the important maintenance items is to make sure all the hi-stab
    oscillators are amazingly close to being perfectly on frequency.
    These oscillators are separate devices in their own rack mount
    chassis. I haven't fooled with paging in a while but I'd suspect they
    are GPS synchronized by now to be even more accurate. As long as the
    heterodyne freq is below the audio passband of the receiver, it should
    be quite fine.

    Too bad cellular can't have fill-in transmitters to get rid of the
    multipath mess in the shadows. Some of the old paging modulation
    schemes were simply amazing how they'd page well in conditions of
    almost no signal at all way out in the fringe.

    >
    > The lag of this one was less than a half second, but since all of it
    >didn't always key up, it sometimes didn't matter.


    Must of had something to do with the voting. One of our repeaters has
    a voter and 3 receivers. But this voter is totally transparent.

    Modern digital COR units, like the Cat 500's and 1000's the hams use
    because they are so cheap, have a digital delay in them. Because you
    are PTT, the only way you hear the audio delay is if you are either
    standing next to the person transmitting or are listening to yourself.
    The controller stores your voice for a few milliseconds in a FIFO
    buffer that simply empties as it fills. This allows you to instantly
    start talking even before the system is fully in transmit mode without
    losing a single syllable to the receivers. Noone can tell the delay
    is online unless you're hearing yourself, which is silly. Works
    great, even with touchtone controls.
    >
    > It was one of the most ambitious non-state or Federal system Motorola
    >tried to do in these parts and they never got it to work. The final proposal
    >to make it work (which was put together by engineers rather than salesmen)
    >involved about four more repeaters and satellite links for everything thing.
    >
    > And no, we did not share this system with anyone else, it was strictly
    >ours.
    >

    Very interesting. Must be nice to have unlimited funds....(c;



    Larry W4CSC

    3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
    gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
    conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?
  13. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:28:53 -0500, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:

    >
    >The only time I get stranded was when I left the car at a service shop.
    > They couldn't start it when they wanted to and jumped it. Jumped it
    >again when I went back to pick it up. And they complained about it
    >ringing a lot, but were afraid to touch it. After that, I had it
    >rewired so the finals were only hot when the ignition was on. Oh, and I
    >had to replace the alternator several times as well.


    Mine had a horn relay. I'd have probably gotten a phone call. I got
    a wrong number in the middle of the night, after I'd forgotten to turn
    off the horn. Woke up the whole neighborhood as the guy was REALLY
    persistent.....before I could get to it to shut it up.
    >
    >And here's the cool part. For a while I also had a 2-ch Moto PT-400 on
    >RCC. One extended road trip I had to use a rental and took it with me,
    >along with a VHF 2M rig w/140w amp and a vertical co-phased whip on a
    >trunk-lip mount. Flat tire just north of the Red River, jack was
    >jammed. I couldn't raise any RCC with the native 10w on the 400, so I
    >re-routed the coax to the VHF whip. Still no joy. So I added the amp
    >and Dallas RCC was crystal, and they billed for the six LD calls to find
    >a tow truck. Oh, and if the FCC is reading this, I only did it once. :)
    >

    Hey, in emergency situations where life and property are in jeopardy,
    all rules are out the window if you can make comms.

    Don't look at my boat or you'll find the emergency linear that's been
    used to overcome the damned marinas on marine VHF 16. One heart
    attack victim out on the beach was damned glad I had it. 160 watts
    helped get him a medivac chopper poste haste!

    POWER IS OUR FRIEND!



    Larry W4CSC

    3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
    gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
    conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?
  14. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:30:36 GMT, JRW <no_addy@no_.com> wrote:

    >Jer wrote:
    >> I couldn't raise any RCC with the native 10w on the 400, so I
    >> re-routed the coax to the VHF whip. Still no joy. So I added the amp
    >> and Dallas RCC was crystal, and they billed for the six LD calls to find
    >> a tow truck. Oh, and if the FCC is reading this, I only did it once. :)

    >
    >Now that was certainly quick thinking! Texas RCCs usually ran near the
    >top of 1,000 towers and had execellent range, not like Denton GTE that
    >ran two IMTS VHF channels on a 50' stick.
    >
    >I was at a very remote telco MTS site and had to call back to toll-test
    >board and ended up plugging my mobile into the feed line at the bottom
    >of a 400' tower on a 500' hilltop. Mobile operators from all across the
    >state were answering me.
    >

    In my "younger days", when I did crazy things mobile just for fun and
    nearly lived in my cars, I had a Gonset pair of 4X150 commercial VHF
    amp on the 2 meter ham band. We took the 4X150s out, built a voltage
    doubler for the power supply and installed a pair of 4X250B finals in
    it. It only drank about 160A at 13V when its primary-keyed solid
    state power supply fired off. Tuned up in the center of the band, it
    would run about 650W on 2M to a pair of 4-element Cushcraft phased
    beams on top of the luggage rack of my VW bus camper, turned by a TV
    rotor off a 115V inverter.

    Many nights were spent on mountain tops working 2M simplex to far away
    states at something around 10KW ERP (guesstimated).

    Power came from a big 8D truck battery charged by the poor VW's
    generator. Keyed up on the road, it would slow the VW's little engine
    quite a bit and squeal the fanbelt...(c;




    Larry W4CSC

    3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
    gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
    conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?
  15. "Larry W4CSC" <nospam@home.com> wrote in message
    news:3f9673ff.255435246@news.knology.net...
    > On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:13:54 -0400, "Thomas M. Goethe"
    > <xspamgoethe11xxxxxx@lycos.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    > Hmm...When simulcasting big transmitters, there should have been high
    > stability ovened oscillators in all transmitters setup within a few hz
    > of each other. Paging companies all simulcast lots of 500W
    > transmitters to cover an area with lots of high powered overlap. One
    > of the important maintenance items is to make sure all the hi-stab
    > oscillators are amazingly close to being perfectly on frequency.
    > These oscillators are separate devices in their own rack mount
    > chassis. I haven't fooled with paging in a while but I'd suspect they
    > are GPS synchronized by now to be even more accurate. As long as the
    > heterodyne freq is below the audio passband of the receiver, it should
    > be quite fine.


    There was a control link going over telco circuits. At that time (1991)
    there was a lot of copper involved. Motorola said the copper was the
    problem, that if it had all been fiber, they could have kept everything in
    sync. Either that or microwave links, but we couldn't get channels for the
    locations required.


    > >
    > > The lag of this one was less than a half second, but since all of it
    > >didn't always key up, it sometimes didn't matter.

    >
    > Must of had something to do with the voting. One of our repeaters has
    > a voter and 3 receivers. But this voter is totally transparent.


    I also suspect you have newer than 1990 technology. I am continually
    stunned by what is now available for a pittance when I look back to what we
    were able to do 15 years ago.

    > > It was one of the most ambitious non-state or Federal system Motorola
    > >tried to do in these parts and they never got it to work. The final

    proposal
    > >to make it work (which was put together by engineers rather than

    salesmen)
    > >involved about four more repeaters and satellite links for everything

    thing.
    > >
    > > And no, we did not share this system with anyone else, it was

    strictly
    > >ours.
    > >

    > Very interesting. Must be nice to have unlimited funds....(c;


    We didn't use the last proposal, we switched to cellular.


    --
    Thomas M. Goethe
  16. JRW

    JRW Guest

    Larry W4CSC wrote:

    > On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:13:54 -0400, "Thomas M. Goethe"
    > <xspamgoethe11xxxxxx@lycos.com> wrote:


    > Hmm...When simulcasting big transmitters, there should have been high
    > stability ovened oscillators in all transmitters setup within a few hz
    > of each other.


    Friend of mine with a competing paging company said they used phase
    delays on the closer trnasmitters so that they would all fire off at
    the same time. If the farthest transmitter was 80 miles from the nearest
    one, the nearest one had roughly a 400 microsecond delay.

    The system I maintained was pretty dysfunctional. It fired off each
    transmitter in sequence. Whenever a customer complained of a weak area,
    sales would tell them their engineer (me) would retune the transmitters
    to get a few more watts out of them. I never told anyone I intentionally
    ran the 230 rated finals at only 200 to extend the tube life. Cutting
    back 30 watts wasn't going to affect the range.

    My manager was even more clueless. I didn't have a 250 watt plug for
    my Bird, so I tuned up the finals at low power. Now I checked for line
    loss - 50 watts into the feedline and 25 watts out of the feed line.
    Simply - 3dB of line loss, no problem.

    My manager told me I was incorrectly calculating how much power was
    going into the antenna. He said if I was observing 25 watts of line
    loss, then if I ran 230 watts into the feedline, I should be getting
    205 watts out. His math:
    (230 watts xmit out) minus (25 watts line loss) = 205 watts to antenna.
  17. JRW

    JRW Guest

    Larry W4CSC wrote:
    > POWER IS OUR FRIEND!


    "Mmmmmm....power..." <-- Homer Simpson after he got his
    Technician license. K5HOMER
  18. "JRW" <no_addy@no_.com> wrote in message
    news:wXAlb.1513$AP6.1092@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
    > Larry W4CSC wrote:
    > > POWER IS OUR FRIEND!

    >


    Antenna height helps a lot too.


    --
    Thomas M. Goethe
  19. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:29:37 GMT, JRW <no_addy@no_.com> wrote:

    >
    >My manager told me I was incorrectly calculating how much power was
    >going into the antenna. He said if I was observing 25 watts of line
    >loss, then if I ran 230 watts into the feedline, I should be getting
    >205 watts out. His math:
    >(230 watts xmit out) minus (25 watts line loss) = 205 watts to antenna.
    >

    It's why we never let "managers" into the Sears aluminum storage
    buildings, isn't it? Why make extra work for yourself....(c;

    "Yeah, it's on the air just like the last time you asked me." should
    be more than enough to satisfy his curiousity. We had managers who
    were electrical engineers at a radio station I once worked for. If
    they came out to the swamp where the AM transmitter was located, we'd
    take up two sections of the dock and hide them behind the building,
    then offer them a set of waders like we were already wearing so they
    wouldn't get their suits wet wading out to the transmitter
    building....Worked great. "That's ok.", they'd say pushing the chest
    waders you were proffering away. "Don't worry!", we'd continue.
    "Those gators haven't been in that water in over a week, now!" Soon
    as they left, we'd get the dock sections back out and put the pins
    back in them. Chief engineer usually took us all to a bar after that.
    It ran fine without all that supervision.....



    Larry W4CSC

    3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
    gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
    conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?
  20. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:38:34 -0400, "Thomas M. Goethe"
    <xspamgoethe11xxxxxx@lycos.com> wrote:

    >
    > Antenna height helps a lot too.
    >

    That's why my bagphone has an OUTSIDE antenna.....

    ON TOPIC!! ON TOPIC!!.....(C;



    Larry W4CSC

    3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
    gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
    conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?

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