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Verizon is spying ...

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by Steven J Sobol, Mar 13, 2004.

  1. Proconsul

    Proconsul Guest

    "tom ronson" <tonostuff@blahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:40549836$0$97632$a8266bb1@news.titannews.com...
    |
    | "Jason Ludwig" <jtludwig@charter.net> wrote in message
    | news:3bfb1bbe.0403140736.13681c85@posting.google.com...
    |
    | > You guys are sure paranoid...
    |
    | Being paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you, or your data.
    |
    | >Come on..the CD may have spyware...so does every website out on the
    | >Internet
    |
    | Oh? Every web site has spyware on it? Interesting --- and first I've heard
    | about it. Of course you're wrong as wrong can be with your statement ---
    but
    | whatever it takes to get the warm fuzzies over Vzw, I guess? And if
    there's
    | even one retailer that thinks its okay to snoop on you without your prior
    | knowledge and consent that's one too many --- isn't it.

    Why get into a hissy fit over what is so common. Just run a good spyware
    remover and be safe....

    However, the notion that Verizon would do this is nothing more than wild
    imagination without, as yet, even one shred of proof.....but it does keep
    the whacky threads going on literlly forever.....:(

    || I will say tho that you're probably right about Vzw web site tho ---- it
    | won't work right unless you open up your machine to many cookies, most of
    | which come from third party servers. So if your saying that the Vzw web
    site
    | has spyware I'd agree with you.

    cookies aren't "spyware"....

    | >everyone knows Verizon is a secret government agency and that they are
    | >using this data to program the phones for mind control!!!
    |
    | Wow, you're just full of interesting factoids --- aren't you.

    Clearly you didn't see that his "irony switch" was on - he was demonstrating
    the absurdity of the claims by being even more absurd.....

    | >That guy who wrote up that long letter and made that website obviously
    has
    | >way to much extra time on his hands.
    |
    | And thank goodness for his efforts tracking it down. It appears that he
    | might have derailed the efforts by Vzw and their marketing partner to
    gather
    | a gold mine of free data.

    Please - he posted "conjecture", "unfounded suspicion" and
    "paranoia"......he tracked down nothing. What would Verizon gain by enraging
    their customer base in such a manner. They can get all sorts of usage date
    by simply analyzing connection and location records.....!

    | The real pisser in this is that Vzw might not have had knowledge of this
    and
    | the third party disk creator might have placed the code their on their own
    | volition.

    Nonsense.....

    PC
     



    › See More: Verizon is spying ...
  2. In alt.cellular.sprintpcs tom ronson <tonostuff@blahoo.com> wrote:

    > I will say tho that you're probably right about Vzw web site tho ---- it
    > won't work right unless you open up your machine to many cookies, most of
    > which come from third party servers. So if your saying that the Vzw web site
    > has spyware I'd agree with you.


    *That* I know not to be true. I don't accept cookies from sites outside
    the site I'm visiting and I can get into My Account and browse the VZW website
    with no problems.


    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003
     
  3. In alt.cellular.sprintpcs Proconsul <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

    > Why get into a hissy fit over what is so common. Just run a good spyware
    > remover and be safe....


    If you don't mind spyware, that's fine.

    I'm surprised that you can't figure out why people are upset about this. It's
    the principle that someone is installing software that I don't want to be
    installed on my computer. Even an attempt is enough to make me not want to
    do business with a particular company.

    > However, the notion that Verizon would do this is nothing more than wild
    > imagination without, as yet, even one shred of proof.....but it does keep
    > the whacky threads going on literlly forever.....:(


    It may, or may not, be Verizon's doing.

    > cookies aren't "spyware"....


    This is true.

    > Clearly you didn't see that his "irony switch" was on - he was demonstrating
    > the absurdity of the claims by being even more absurd.....


    So you're absolutely sure it's not VZW's marketing department that wants to
    track who's using the CD?

    > Please - he posted "conjecture", "unfounded suspicion"


    Others have confirmed that the noptify.exe program does get installed.

    > "paranoia"......he tracked down nothing. What would Verizon gain by enraging
    > their customer base in such a manner. They can get all sorts of usage date
    > by simply analyzing connection and location records.....!


    You're assuming the marketoons have clue. Most marketoons don't. Most
    marketoons only give a damn about pushing their message in as many people's
    faces as possible, and don't care who they irritate. Which alternate reality
    have *you* been living in?

    > | The real pisser in this is that Vzw might not have had knowledge of this
    > and
    > | the third party disk creator might have placed the code their on their own
    > | volition.
    >
    > Nonsense.....


    Well, now you just sound like an idiot. It wasn't Verizon, but it wasn't a
    third party either?

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003
     
  4. tom ronson

    tom ronson Guest

    "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
    news:0ICdnV2-IvnNPcndRVn-vg@lmi.net...

    > *That* I know not to be true. I don't accept cookies from sites outside
    > the site I'm visiting and I can get into My Account and browse the VZW

    website
    > with no problems.


    I'm not going to argue the point ---- but I can't look at plans and phones
    with third party cookies disabled on my machine. Not sure what that says,
    but that's my experience.





    .................................................................
    Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
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  5. tom ronson

    tom ronson Guest

    "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
    news:rY05c.2648$F91.829@lakeread05...

    > Why get into a hissy fit over what is so common. Just run a good spyware
    > remover and be safe....


    I'm not sure that 'hissy' aptly describes my responce --- tho I find what
    appears to be fairly well researched issue to be of interest.

    > However, the notion that Verizon would do this is nothing more than wild
    > imagination without, as yet, even one shred of proof.....


    Well, the guy with the web site installed SW and then saw his firewall
    asking for permision to phone home. I'm interested that you're so dismissive
    of the guy's observations. And heck, it looks to me there's at least a
    "shred" of proof that something occured.

    > cookies aren't "spyware"....


    Many aren't ---- and why Ad-Aware leaves most of them alone.

    > Clearly you didn't see that his "irony switch" was on - he was

    demonstrating
    > the absurdity of the claims by being even more absurd.....


    Sure I did --- doesn't mean that I asrcribe to his position, tho.

    > Please - he posted "conjecture", "unfounded suspicion" and
    > "paranoia"......he tracked down nothing.


    Why you're so dismissive of the guy's observations is unclear to me --- but
    it's your machine so do what you will.

    >What would Verizon gain by enraging their customer base in such a manner.


    sites visited, cc culling, identity information, preferences --- etc, etc,
    etc --- and if there's no value to data like that then why do data miners
    like doubleclick exist?

    >They can get all sorts of usage date by simply analyzing connection and

    location records.....!

    Ya, and that's the phone you're getting service off of, not your computer
    which has nothing to do with Vzw providing a platform to place a call from.
    They don't know what you're saying to the party you're calling --- just
    where you are, roughly, and that you called xxx-xxx-xxxx for x amount of
    minutes --- nothing more.

    But let me ask you something ---- Jet Blue and Northwest Air both handed
    over piles of raw passenger data to NASA for TSA purposes --- including
    names, cc #'s and the like. Both companies denied the charge as "conjecture"
    and "unfounded suspicion", repeatedly, right until the box got too tight to
    deny it anymore. Does Jet Blue's and Northwest's initial denials mean the
    incident didn't happen --- or just that they hadn't gotten enough proof
    stacked against them, yet.

    Same with real.com several years ago, who ultimately was called for data
    mining of their customers -- despite their denials of data mining.

    Blow it off as inconsequential, but you're pooh-poohing the observations of
    a user who saw something change after he put a Vzw CD in his machine seems
    to be overly cavalier to me.

    Good luck with your computers!!

    --tr





    .................................................................
    Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
    >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<

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  6. Smiling Wickedly, Proconsul answered, In the year 3/14/2004 9:51 AM:
    > "tom ronson" <tonostuff@blahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:40549836$0$97632$a8266bb1@news.titannews.com...
    > |
    > | "Jason Ludwig" <jtludwig@charter.net> wrote in message
    > | news:3bfb1bbe.0403140736.13681c85@posting.google.com...
    > |
    > | > You guys are sure paranoid...
    > |
    > | Being paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you, or your data.
    > |
    > | >Come on..the CD may have spyware...so does every website out on the
    > | >Internet
    > |
    > | Oh? Every web site has spyware on it? Interesting --- and first I've heard
    > | about it. Of course you're wrong as wrong can be with your statement ---
    > but
    > | whatever it takes to get the warm fuzzies over Vzw, I guess? And if
    > there's
    > | even one retailer that thinks its okay to snoop on you without your prior
    > | knowledge and consent that's one too many --- isn't it.
    >
    > Why get into a hissy fit over what is so common. Just run a good spyware
    > remover and be safe....
    >
    > However, the notion that Verizon would do this is nothing more than wild
    > imagination without, as yet, even one shred of proof.....but it does keep
    > the whacky threads going on literlly forever.....:(
    >
    > || I will say tho that you're probably right about Vzw web site tho ---- it
    > | won't work right unless you open up your machine to many cookies, most of
    > | which come from third party servers. So if your saying that the Vzw web
    > site
    > | has spyware I'd agree with you.
    >
    > cookies aren't "spyware"....
    >
    > | >everyone knows Verizon is a secret government agency and that they are
    > | >using this data to program the phones for mind control!!!
    > |
    > | Wow, you're just full of interesting factoids --- aren't you.
    >
    > Clearly you didn't see that his "irony switch" was on - he was demonstrating
    > the absurdity of the claims by being even more absurd.....
    >
    > | >That guy who wrote up that long letter and made that website obviously
    > has
    > | >way to much extra time on his hands.
    > |
    > | And thank goodness for his efforts tracking it down. It appears that he
    > | might have derailed the efforts by Vzw and their marketing partner to
    > gather
    > | a gold mine of free data.
    >
    > Please - he posted "conjecture", "unfounded suspicion" and
    > "paranoia"......he tracked down nothing. What would Verizon gain by enraging
    > their customer base in such a manner. They can get all sorts of usage date
    > by simply analyzing connection and location records.....!
    >
    > | The real pisser in this is that Vzw might not have had knowledge of this
    > and
    > | the third party disk creator might have placed the code their on their own
    > | volition.
    >
    > Nonsense.....
    >
    > PC
    >
    >

    How long have you worked for the spyware creator?
     
  7. Smiling Wickedly, Steven J Sobol answered, In the year 3/14/2004 10:17 AM:

    > In alt.cellular.sprintpcs Proconsul <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Why get into a hissy fit over what is so common. Just run a good spyware
    >>remover and be safe....

    >
    >
    > If you don't mind spyware, that's fine.
    >
    > I'm surprised that you can't figure out why people are upset about this. It's
    > the principle that someone is installing software that I don't want to be
    > installed on my computer. Even an attempt is enough to make me not want to
    > do business with a particular company.
    >
    >
    >>However, the notion that Verizon would do this is nothing more than wild
    >>imagination without, as yet, even one shred of proof.....but it does keep
    >>the whacky threads going on literlly forever.....:(

    >
    >
    > It may, or may not, be Verizon's doing.
    >
    >
    >>cookies aren't "spyware"....


    Actually this is FALSE. There IS such a thing as 'tracking' cookies.
    and they're used MUCH more than you would think.
     
  8. "tom ronson" <tonostuff@blahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:4054b45e$0$97599$a8266bb1@news.titannews.com...
    > But let me ask you something ---- Jet Blue and Northwest Air both handed
    > over piles of raw passenger data to NASA for TSA purposes --- including
    > names, cc #'s and the like. Both companies denied the charge as

    "conjecture"
    > and "unfounded suspicion", repeatedly, right until the box got too tight

    to
    > deny it anymore. Does Jet Blue's and Northwest's initial denials mean the
    > incident didn't happen --- or just that they hadn't gotten enough proof
    > stacked against them, yet.
    >


    Somewhat OT, but Delta is doing that right now, as a pilot for CAPPS II. All
    your data is handed over to the TSA. They run a credit report, previous
    addresses, criminal record check...everything. If a computer decides that
    you shouldn't fly, you don't fly. No questions. And you can't ask the TSA to
    change it. What the computer says is final. If a computer decides you might
    be a danger, you'll be searched, your luggage searched, and you'll likely
    miss your flight (unless you feel like getting to the airport five or more
    hours early). I find the fact that a government agency takes all my personal
    details and investigates me every time I fly much more troubling than
    Verizon Wireless finding out what features someone uses on their CDs. (Yes,
    they COULD corrolate that to an IP, but if, as the e-mail posted on the
    Website claims, they don't, then they can just as easily discard those
    records.)

    I used the LG VX4400B CD and my computer, in less than 20 reboots, has no
    files with "noptify" in their names.

    *Michael Notforyou*
    For more information about CAPPS II and the Delta pilot program, visit:
    http://www.eff.org/Privacy/cappsii/
    http://www.boycottdelta.org
    http://www.dontspyonus.com
    http://www.epic.org/privacy/airtravel/ (EPIC has also been tracking the
    NWA/JetBlue situation.)
     
  9. In alt.cellular.sprintpcs Michael L. Arends <mlarends@nodamnspamearthlink.net> wrote:

    > Actually this is FALSE. There IS such a thing as 'tracking' cookies.
    > and they're used MUCH more than you would think.


    Without you giving specific info, there are only a few things that can
    be tracked at all, by cookies or otherwise.

    1. The IP address your computer used to connect to the web server.
    2. the User-Agent string your browser uses to identify itself.
    3. Technical information about the request -- like the HTTP method used
    to call the page (GET, POST, etc.)

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003
     
  10. benzplan9

    benzplan9 Guest

    Steven J Sobol wrote:

    > In alt.cellular.sprintpcs tom ronson <tonostuff@blahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >>I will say tho that you're probably right about Vzw web site tho ---- it
    >>won't work right unless you open up your machine to many cookies, most of
    >>which come from third party servers. So if your saying that the Vzw web site
    >>has spyware I'd agree with you.

    >
    > *That* I know not to be true. I don't accept cookies from sites outside
    > the site I'm visiting and I can get into My Account and browse the VZW website
    > with no problems.


    I just tried an experiment with Mozilla Firefox and access to
    www.verizonwireless.com.
    With cookies turned off - could not browse plans or phones (site
    wanted to store my zip code in a cookie).
    With cookies on for the current site only and for the current session
    only - no problem viewing phones and plans.

    This in my opinion is a legitimate use of a cookie. The type of
    information reported as being gleaned by the Welcome CD from Verizon
    is not.

    --
    BrZ
     
  11. Slope

    Slope Guest

    What is wrong with you guys? You are being watched (spied on) every
    moment you are out of your house. The cops use cameras at main roads
    and intersections, the store owners track what you buy, credit card
    companies track how you spend your money, marketing folks watch what
    stores you go to, others watch what products you buy, ISP's track what
    web sites you visit, and yes there is spyware. The issue here isn't
    if Verizon did or did not include spyware in a CD, the issue here is,
    if they did, why? What are they looking for that can provide them any
    useful statistical data? Maybe it was simply a matter of identifying
    how many customers actually use the included CD. If the numbers were
    low, maybe they can save the costs of production or provide the the
    same information in a more cost effective way. But do you guys
    believe that Verizon is out to get you? IMHO, BULSHIT!

    SloPe




    On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:36:14 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

    >Newsgroups expanded to include alt.cellular.verizon...
    >
    >Bob Smith <usirsclt_No_Spam_@earthlink.net> wrote:
    >> Just noticed a post on the alt.privacy.spyware Usenet newsgroup, where
    >> Verizon is loading up spyware on their CDs given to new customers ... If
    >> anyone is interested, here's the link -
    >> http://rlenews.com/04/040311.html#verizon

    >
    >And this relates to SprintPCS how? :)
    >
    >Boy, this sucks. I have two VZW lines and no longer need the second line,
    >and was going to port it to Sprint PCS anyhow, but if this is how VZW
    >operates I'll cancel the second line outright and port my main number (which
    >is advertised on my business cards) to Sprint. I have issues with Sprint,
    >but at least they don't play games like that, and if VZW is going to screw
    >with people this way, I won't keep my main VZW line *or* the secondary line.
    >
    >With most of my family members using Sprint anyhow, I'll save lots of
    >money on airtime...
    >
    >(What a load of *bullshit.* They don't deserve new customers if this is
    >how the new customers get treated?)
     
  12. In alt.cellular.sprintpcs benzplan9 <benzplan9@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > I just tried an experiment with Mozilla Firefox and access to
    > www.verizonwireless.com.
    > With cookies turned off - could not browse plans or phones (site
    > wanted to store my zip code in a cookie).
    > With cookies on for the current site only and for the current session
    > only - no problem viewing phones and plans.
    >
    > This in my opinion is a legitimate use of a cookie. The type of
    > information reported as being gleaned by the Welcome CD from Verizon
    > is not.


    Yup. Agreed. :)

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003
     
  13. tom ronson

    tom ronson Guest

    "Michael Notforyou" <sqfreak@NOSPAM.eudoramail.com> wrote in message
    news:7u45c.136080$jx3.8654647@twister.southeast.rr.com...

    > Somewhat OT, but Delta is doing that right now, as a pilot for CAPPS II.


    I know they were, then stopped after their clientel raised holy hell. Has it
    started again? As a note, the GAO seems to be strongly against CAPS II,
    fwiw.

    >I find the fact that a government agency takes all my personal
    > details and investigates me every time I fly much more troubling than
    > Verizon Wireless finding out what features someone uses on their CDs.


    I agree ---- but CAPPS II mines private (commercial) databases --- and isn't
    that what we're talking about here -- at least by extension? There are a
    number of big data houses gathering data all the time on individuals ---
    consolidating it and selling it to lord knows who. The whole practice,
    frankly, bothers me no end --- and is why I took note of this thread.

    More troublesome still are the problems / innacuracies with these data ---
    and the lack of remidy that you or I have to correct these issues --- like
    the ones you pointed out in your post (no fly, TS, go home).

    Here's a link to a strory about data mining gone wrong (maybe) ---
    facilitated by "ChoicePoint" of Atlanta. It shows the problems with these
    databases nicely.

    http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/12/04/voter_file/print.html

    --tr

    (Yes,
    > they COULD corrolate that to an IP, but if, as the e-mail posted on the
    > Website claims, they don't, then they can just as easily discard those
    > records.)
    >
    > I used the LG VX4400B CD and my computer, in less than 20 reboots, has no
    > files with "noptify" in their names.
    >
    > *Michael Notforyou*
    > For more information about CAPPS II and the Delta pilot program, visit:
    > http://www.eff.org/Privacy/cappsii/
    > http://www.boycottdelta.org
    > http://www.dontspyonus.com
    > http://www.epic.org/privacy/airtravel/ (EPIC has also been tracking the
    > NWA/JetBlue situation.)
    >
    >






    .................................................................
    Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
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  14. Proconsul

    Proconsul Guest

    "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
    news:qe-dnTJGI4FIPMnd4p2dnA@lmi.net...
    | In alt.cellular.sprintpcs Proconsul <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
    |
    | > Why get into a hissy fit over what is so common. Just run a good spyware
    | > remover and be safe....
    |
    | If you don't mind spyware, that's fine.

    So far, I've seen nothing that shows me that any "spyware" exists that came
    from Verizon - I checked all the "stuff" reported and found none....

    | I'm surprised that you can't figure out why people are upset about this.
    It's
    | the principle that someone is installing software that I don't want to be
    | installed on my computer. Even an attempt is enough to make me not want to
    | do business with a particular company.

    Over-reaction, IMO....! I don't like it either, but I just run SpyBot and
    AdAware and keep on trucking......

    In the context of this thread, there is still NO credible, checkable
    evidence that suggest that Verizon has been guilty of foisting spyware upon
    us all - just a lot of "The Sky Is Falling" conjecture....

    There's nothing for you to be "surprised" about.......:)

    | > Clearly you didn't see that his "irony switch" was on - he was
    demonstrating
    | > the absurdity of the claims by being even more absurd.....
    |
    | So you're absolutely sure it's not VZW's marketing department that wants
    to
    | track who's using the CD?

    I can find NO credible evidence to support such a claim....and I have
    discounted it. I wonder why so many are so determined to believe what can't
    be substantiated...

    | > Please - he posted "conjecture", "unfounded suspicion"
    |
    | Others have confirmed that the noptify.exe program does get installed.

    "Others" have certainly so reported - I repeated what they say they did and
    found nothing.....this takes us back to that pesky "credible" thingee again
    as opposed to "claims" made on the Internet....

    | > "paranoia"......he tracked down nothing. What would Verizon gain by
    enraging
    | > their customer base in such a manner. They can get all sorts of usage
    date
    | > by simply analyzing connection and location records.....!
    |
    | You're assuming the marketoons have clue. Most marketoons don't. Most
    | marketoons only give a damn about pushing their message in as many
    people's
    | faces as possible, and don't care who they irritate. Which alternate
    reality
    | have *you* been living in?

    I live in the real world - based on what you post, it appears to me that you
    live in the real world too, which is why I'm surprised you are so williing
    to defend baseless comments......

    I "assumed" nothing. I repeated what was reported - I found it to be
    bogus.....

    | > | The real pisser in this is that Vzw might not have had knowledge of
    this
    | > and
    | > | the third party disk creator might have placed the code their on their
    own
    | > | volition.
    | >
    | > Nonsense.....
    |
    | Well, now you just sound like an idiot. It wasn't Verizon, but it wasn't a
    | third party either?

    You are the one who wants to appear to be the idiot - I'm a little surprised
    that you would stoop to name-calling over an issue like this one that is so
    clearly bogus. I have repeatedly stated that I did what the complainers did
    and found nothing! What part of NOTHING are you having a problem with? Let
    me help: If one couldn't find any evidence that such a spyware file was
    present, then NOBODY did it! That qualifies as "nonsense" in the real world
    any where, any time.....

    PC
     
  15. Proconsul

    Proconsul Guest

    "Michael L. Arends" <mlarends@NODAMNSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:9ec097885b640b7a1c028c3cdc5ba3dd@news.teranews.com...
    | >>cookies aren't "spyware"....
    |
    | Actually this is FALSE. There IS such a thing as 'tracking' cookies.
    | and they're used MUCH more than you would think.

    Let's not get to carried away - tracking cookies are NOT spyware in the
    context under discussion in this thread.....

    PC
     
  16. Proconsul

    Proconsul Guest

    "tom ronson" <tonostuff@blahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:4054b45e$0$97599$a8266bb1@news.titannews.com...
    |
    | "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
    | news:rY05c.2648$F91.829@lakeread05...
    |
    | > Why get into a hissy fit over what is so common. Just run a good spyware
    | > remover and be safe....
    |
    | I'm not sure that 'hissy' aptly describes my responce --- tho I find what
    | appears to be fairly well researched issue to be of interest.
    |
    | > However, the notion that Verizon would do this is nothing more than wild
    | > imagination without, as yet, even one shred of proof.....
    |
    | Well, the guy with the web site installed SW and then saw his firewall
    | asking for permision to phone home. I'm interested that you're so
    dismissive
    | of the guy's observations. And heck, it looks to me there's at least a
    | "shred" of proof that something occured.

    I repeated his actions and found nothing - I'm not "buying" it.....

    If you can't check and verify, then it remains true that there is no
    credible "proof" available to support the OP's claims....

    | > cookies aren't "spyware"....
    |
    | Many aren't ---- and why Ad-Aware leaves most of them alone.
    |
    | > Clearly you didn't see that his "irony switch" was on - he was
    | demonstrating
    | > the absurdity of the claims by being even more absurd.....
    |
    | Sure I did --- doesn't mean that I asrcribe to his position, tho.
    |
    | > Please - he posted "conjecture", "unfounded suspicion" and
    | > "paranoia"......he tracked down nothing.
    |
    | Why you're so dismissive of the guy's observations is unclear to me ---
    but
    | it's your machine so do what you will.

    For the Nnnnth time - I repeated his actions as reported and found
    nothing...no file, nothing. Ain't nothing there....

    My machine, which is behind a good firewall and uses Norton Anti-Virus, is
    clean and will remain clean. The use of SpyBot and AdAware are added
    precautions - I'm dismissive of the guy's observations because they can't be
    replicated AND, even if true, could be easily defeated using proper software
    and proper procedures. That having been said, IF his claims were true, then
    Verizon would be taking massive heat everywhere - and they aren't.....

    | >What would Verizon gain by enraging their customer base in such a manner.
    |
    | sites visited, cc culling, identity information, preferences --- etc, etc,
    | etc --- and if there's no value to data like that then why do data miners
    | like doubleclick exist?

    For obvious reasons - you counter them with sensible precautions. All you
    have said begs the question that the original report can't be verified....

    I still can't imagine why Verizon would want any of the info you mention -
    usage data is useful to them, but they don't need "spyware" to get it.......

    | >They can get all sorts of usage date by simply analyzing connection and
    | location records.....!
    |
    | Ya, and that's the phone you're getting service off of, not your computer
    | which has nothing to do with Vzw providing a platform to place a call
    from.
    | They don't know what you're saying to the party you're calling --- just
    | where you are, roughly, and that you called xxx-xxx-xxxx for x amount of
    | minutes --- nothing more.

    More galloping paranoia......:(

    | But let me ask you something ---- Jet Blue and Northwest Air both handed
    | over piles of raw passenger data to NASA for TSA purposes --- including
    | names, cc #'s and the like. Both companies denied the charge as
    "conjecture"
    | and "unfounded suspicion", repeatedly, right until the box got too tight
    to
    | deny it anymore. Does Jet Blue's and Northwest's initial denials mean the
    | incident didn't happen --- or just that they hadn't gotten enough proof
    | stacked against them, yet.

    You can't segue from there to Verizon - without some PROOF!

    | Same with real.com several years ago, who ultimately was called for data
    | mining of their customers -- despite their denials of data mining.
    |
    | Blow it off as inconsequential, but you're pooh-poohing the observations
    of
    | a user who saw something change after he put a Vzw CD in his machine seems
    | to be overly cavalier to me.

    Where is the PROOF!!!

    | Good luck with your computers!!

    Mine are fine - even though I'm not paranoid......:)

    PC
     
  17. tom ronson

    tom ronson Guest

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