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Verizon Wireless billing trick, scam $40 "mistake"

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by Quick, Jul 1, 2004.

  1. Roger Binns

    Roger Binns Guest

    Proconsul wrote:
    > Verizon is an independent business and has the absolute right to determine
    > billing dates.....


    You keep missing my point. This is not sour grapes or anything else.
    Yes, they could charge by the moon phase, or base it on your house number.
    I am not arguing about what they can legally do, what they have the right
    to do etc.

    My question is *why* have they chosen this completely non-standard scheme
    of picking a random date as your billing date. There might be some good reason
    but I haven't seen it here.

    Instead by picking a random date, they have to explain to every customer
    how their prorating works, and that they will be affected it on their
    first bill. Then they have to deal with however many customers didn't
    pay attention or didn't understand, which generates ill will, and
    consumes CSR time.

    > Verizon uses the system in place to account for, in the main, the almost
    > universal practice among it's subscribers of changing plans, changing
    > equipment, etc., etc.


    Except when you change plans they don't change the billing date so that
    theory isn't appropriate. (Again we are not debating about how they do
    prorating, but why they pick a random day as the billing date).

    > Any large business, in this case one with 39 million
    > accounts, will spread billing dates out over the month for reasons too
    > obvious to have to describe....just think of the workload involved in
    > calculating and generating that many bills....


    It will also be obvious that customers will sign up all over the month
    so if the billing date was the same as when you signed up, then you
    would still get the billing date spread over the month. Unless you
    want to argue that disproportionate numbers of people sign up on
    specific dates. (The only issue would be for people signing up on
    the 31st, but that only occurs 7 times a year).

    Roger
     



    › See More: Verizon Wireless billing trick, scam $40 "mistake"
  2. What's wrong with programming a fucking billing system to work honestly and
    make NO mistakes? Why hell didn't you respond with that one? Of course you
    took the easy route and would actually stick up for a company that would
    over charge you and not have a care in the world about it.

    "Bob Scheurle" <njtbob2@X-optonline-X.net> wrote in message
    news:42mbe05qq7ivgbom1sboiffm930fsi6125@4ax.com...
    > On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:48:29 -0400, "Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com>
    > wrote:
    > >Hey Putz...I bet no one EVER on here posted a billing mistake in the
    > >customer's favor.

    >
    > Of course not. You'd have to be a moron to do that. Someone might see
    > the post and fix the mistake. I've seen people do similar things
    > regarding their Internet Service Provider (e.g., brag about how they're
    > being undercharged), and two days later their account gets cut off.
    >
    > >How is that possible with so many customer's? O, I know.
    > >The billing system was designed to NEVER make a mistake IN the customer's
    > >favor.

    >
    > Oh, so you'd design a system that WOULD make mistakes in the customer's
    > favor? I hope you don't look for a job in the software industry. I can
    > see your resume now: Wrote a billing system that intentionally made
    > mistakes. Sure!
    >
     
  3. What's wrong with programming a fucking billing system to work honestly and
    make NO mistakes? Why hell didn't you respond with that one? Of course you
    took the easy route and would actually stick up for a company that would
    over charge you and not have a care in the world about it.

    "Bob Scheurle" <njtbob2@X-optonline-X.net> wrote in message
    news:42mbe05qq7ivgbom1sboiffm930fsi6125@4ax.com...
    > On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:48:29 -0400, "Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com>
    > wrote:
    > >Hey Putz...I bet no one EVER on here posted a billing mistake in the
    > >customer's favor.

    >
    > Of course not. You'd have to be a moron to do that. Someone might see
    > the post and fix the mistake. I've seen people do similar things
    > regarding their Internet Service Provider (e.g., brag about how they're
    > being undercharged), and two days later their account gets cut off.
    >
    > >How is that possible with so many customer's? O, I know.
    > >The billing system was designed to NEVER make a mistake IN the customer's
    > >favor.

    >
    > Oh, so you'd design a system that WOULD make mistakes in the customer's
    > favor? I hope you don't look for a job in the software industry. I can
    > see your resume now: Wrote a billing system that intentionally made
    > mistakes. Sure!
    >
     
  4. What's wrong with programming a fucking billing system to work honestly and
    make NO mistakes? Why hell didn't you respond with that one? Of course you
    took the easy route and would actually stick up for a company that would
    over charge you and not have a care in the world about it.

    "Bob Scheurle" <njtbob2@X-optonline-X.net> wrote in message
    news:42mbe05qq7ivgbom1sboiffm930fsi6125@4ax.com...
    > On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:48:29 -0400, "Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com>
    > wrote:
    > >Hey Putz...I bet no one EVER on here posted a billing mistake in the
    > >customer's favor.

    >
    > Of course not. You'd have to be a moron to do that. Someone might see
    > the post and fix the mistake. I've seen people do similar things
    > regarding their Internet Service Provider (e.g., brag about how they're
    > being undercharged), and two days later their account gets cut off.
    >
    > >How is that possible with so many customer's? O, I know.
    > >The billing system was designed to NEVER make a mistake IN the customer's
    > >favor.

    >
    > Oh, so you'd design a system that WOULD make mistakes in the customer's
    > favor? I hope you don't look for a job in the software industry. I can
    > see your resume now: Wrote a billing system that intentionally made
    > mistakes. Sure!
    >
     
  5. What's wrong with programming a fucking billing system to work honestly and
    make NO mistakes? Why hell didn't you respond with that one? Of course you
    took the easy route and would actually stick up for a company that would
    over charge you and not have a care in the world about it.

    "Bob Scheurle" <njtbob2@X-optonline-X.net> wrote in message
    news:42mbe05qq7ivgbom1sboiffm930fsi6125@4ax.com...
    > On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:48:29 -0400, "Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com>
    > wrote:
    > >Hey Putz...I bet no one EVER on here posted a billing mistake in the
    > >customer's favor.

    >
    > Of course not. You'd have to be a moron to do that. Someone might see
    > the post and fix the mistake. I've seen people do similar things
    > regarding their Internet Service Provider (e.g., brag about how they're
    > being undercharged), and two days later their account gets cut off.
    >
    > >How is that possible with so many customer's? O, I know.
    > >The billing system was designed to NEVER make a mistake IN the customer's
    > >favor.

    >
    > Oh, so you'd design a system that WOULD make mistakes in the customer's
    > favor? I hope you don't look for a job in the software industry. I can
    > see your resume now: Wrote a billing system that intentionally made
    > mistakes. Sure!
    >
     
  6. What's wrong with programming a fucking billing system to work honestly and
    make NO mistakes? Why hell didn't you respond with that one? Of course you
    took the easy route and would actually stick up for a company that would
    over charge you and not have a care in the world about it.

    "Bob Scheurle" <njtbob2@X-optonline-X.net> wrote in message
    news:42mbe05qq7ivgbom1sboiffm930fsi6125@4ax.com...
    > On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:48:29 -0400, "Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com>
    > wrote:
    > >Hey Putz...I bet no one EVER on here posted a billing mistake in the
    > >customer's favor.

    >
    > Of course not. You'd have to be a moron to do that. Someone might see
    > the post and fix the mistake. I've seen people do similar things
    > regarding their Internet Service Provider (e.g., brag about how they're
    > being undercharged), and two days later their account gets cut off.
    >
    > >How is that possible with so many customer's? O, I know.
    > >The billing system was designed to NEVER make a mistake IN the customer's
    > >favor.

    >
    > Oh, so you'd design a system that WOULD make mistakes in the customer's
    > favor? I hope you don't look for a job in the software industry. I can
    > see your resume now: Wrote a billing system that intentionally made
    > mistakes. Sure!
    >
     
  7. Proconsul

    Proconsul Guest

    "Roger Binns" <rogerb@rogerbinns.com> wrote in message
    news:tb9kr1-7oc.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com...
    | Proconsul wrote:
    | > Verizon is an independent business and has the absolute right to
    determine
    | > billing dates.....
    |
    | You keep missing my point. This is not sour grapes or anything else.
    | Yes, they could charge by the moon phase, or base it on your house number.
    | I am not arguing about what they can legally do, what they have the right
    | to do etc.

    It isn't I who has missed the point - Verizon does what they do because they
    find it the way they want to do it.....

    It is, indeed, nothing more than "sour grapes", i.e., they didn't do it your
    way so it's obviously wrong or some devious plot......:)

    | My question is *why* have they chosen this completely non-standard scheme
    | of picking a random date as your billing date. There might be some good
    reason
    | but I haven't seen it here.

    The reason is obvious - they developed a system that works for them the way
    they want it to work and into which they have to weave 39 million accounts.
    No rocket science involved here....

    | Instead by picking a random date, they have to explain to every customer
    | how their prorating works, and that they will be affected it on their
    | first bill. Then they have to deal with however many customers didn't
    | pay attention or didn't understand, which generates ill will, and
    | consumes CSR time.

    It's YOUR responsibility to pay attention, read and understand.....it's
    THEIR responsibility to explain. In my experience, they do explain. It's my
    observation that many people neither listen nor read. The criticism of
    Verizon is, IMO, simply not justified....

    | > Verizon uses the system in place to account for, in the main, the almost
    | > universal practice among it's subscribers of changing plans, changing
    | > equipment, etc., etc.
    |
    | Except when you change plans they don't change the billing date so that
    | theory isn't appropriate. (Again we are not debating about how they do
    | prorating, but why they pick a random day as the billing date).

    Ah, but you DO expose yourself to proration unless you choose to have
    whatever changes that you want made take effect on the date the billing
    cycle starts. It matters NOT what the billing date is - what does matter is
    that you know what it is and act accordingly. Whenever I've asked them, they
    cheerfully tell me - and they patiently answer any/all questions. Too many
    lay all the blame/responsibility on a CSR who makes minimum wage and tries
    like hell to do a good job - which is exactly what most of them do. Those
    who blame the CSR should be taking the responsibility for themselves - after
    all, the responsibility IS theirs....!

    | > Any large business, in this case one with 39 million
    | > accounts, will spread billing dates out over the month for reasons too
    | > obvious to have to describe....just think of the workload involved in
    | > calculating and generating that many bills....
    |
    | It will also be obvious that customers will sign up all over the month
    | so if the billing date was the same as when you signed up, then you
    | would still get the billing date spread over the month. Unless you
    | want to argue that disproportionate numbers of people sign up on
    | specific dates. (The only issue would be for people signing up on
    | the 31st, but that only occurs 7 times a year).

    A disntinction without a difference - just because YOU think it's the "right
    way" doesn't make it so. Verizon's system is their system and since it's
    their company, they get to make the rules....! I don't want to argue at
    all - I merely contend that the carping about Verizon's methods in re
    billing is unjustified....!

    PC
     
  8. Proconsul

    Proconsul Guest

    "Roger Binns" <rogerb@rogerbinns.com> wrote in message
    news:tb9kr1-7oc.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com...
    | Proconsul wrote:
    | > Verizon is an independent business and has the absolute right to
    determine
    | > billing dates.....
    |
    | You keep missing my point. This is not sour grapes or anything else.
    | Yes, they could charge by the moon phase, or base it on your house number.
    | I am not arguing about what they can legally do, what they have the right
    | to do etc.

    It isn't I who has missed the point - Verizon does what they do because they
    find it the way they want to do it.....

    It is, indeed, nothing more than "sour grapes", i.e., they didn't do it your
    way so it's obviously wrong or some devious plot......:)

    | My question is *why* have they chosen this completely non-standard scheme
    | of picking a random date as your billing date. There might be some good
    reason
    | but I haven't seen it here.

    The reason is obvious - they developed a system that works for them the way
    they want it to work and into which they have to weave 39 million accounts.
    No rocket science involved here....

    | Instead by picking a random date, they have to explain to every customer
    | how their prorating works, and that they will be affected it on their
    | first bill. Then they have to deal with however many customers didn't
    | pay attention or didn't understand, which generates ill will, and
    | consumes CSR time.

    It's YOUR responsibility to pay attention, read and understand.....it's
    THEIR responsibility to explain. In my experience, they do explain. It's my
    observation that many people neither listen nor read. The criticism of
    Verizon is, IMO, simply not justified....

    | > Verizon uses the system in place to account for, in the main, the almost
    | > universal practice among it's subscribers of changing plans, changing
    | > equipment, etc., etc.
    |
    | Except when you change plans they don't change the billing date so that
    | theory isn't appropriate. (Again we are not debating about how they do
    | prorating, but why they pick a random day as the billing date).

    Ah, but you DO expose yourself to proration unless you choose to have
    whatever changes that you want made take effect on the date the billing
    cycle starts. It matters NOT what the billing date is - what does matter is
    that you know what it is and act accordingly. Whenever I've asked them, they
    cheerfully tell me - and they patiently answer any/all questions. Too many
    lay all the blame/responsibility on a CSR who makes minimum wage and tries
    like hell to do a good job - which is exactly what most of them do. Those
    who blame the CSR should be taking the responsibility for themselves - after
    all, the responsibility IS theirs....!

    | > Any large business, in this case one with 39 million
    | > accounts, will spread billing dates out over the month for reasons too
    | > obvious to have to describe....just think of the workload involved in
    | > calculating and generating that many bills....
    |
    | It will also be obvious that customers will sign up all over the month
    | so if the billing date was the same as when you signed up, then you
    | would still get the billing date spread over the month. Unless you
    | want to argue that disproportionate numbers of people sign up on
    | specific dates. (The only issue would be for people signing up on
    | the 31st, but that only occurs 7 times a year).

    A disntinction without a difference - just because YOU think it's the "right
    way" doesn't make it so. Verizon's system is their system and since it's
    their company, they get to make the rules....! I don't want to argue at
    all - I merely contend that the carping about Verizon's methods in re
    billing is unjustified....!

    PC
     
  9. Proconsul

    Proconsul Guest

    "Roger Binns" <rogerb@rogerbinns.com> wrote in message
    news:tb9kr1-7oc.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com...
    | Proconsul wrote:
    | > Verizon is an independent business and has the absolute right to
    determine
    | > billing dates.....
    |
    | You keep missing my point. This is not sour grapes or anything else.
    | Yes, they could charge by the moon phase, or base it on your house number.
    | I am not arguing about what they can legally do, what they have the right
    | to do etc.

    It isn't I who has missed the point - Verizon does what they do because they
    find it the way they want to do it.....

    It is, indeed, nothing more than "sour grapes", i.e., they didn't do it your
    way so it's obviously wrong or some devious plot......:)

    | My question is *why* have they chosen this completely non-standard scheme
    | of picking a random date as your billing date. There might be some good
    reason
    | but I haven't seen it here.

    The reason is obvious - they developed a system that works for them the way
    they want it to work and into which they have to weave 39 million accounts.
    No rocket science involved here....

    | Instead by picking a random date, they have to explain to every customer
    | how their prorating works, and that they will be affected it on their
    | first bill. Then they have to deal with however many customers didn't
    | pay attention or didn't understand, which generates ill will, and
    | consumes CSR time.

    It's YOUR responsibility to pay attention, read and understand.....it's
    THEIR responsibility to explain. In my experience, they do explain. It's my
    observation that many people neither listen nor read. The criticism of
    Verizon is, IMO, simply not justified....

    | > Verizon uses the system in place to account for, in the main, the almost
    | > universal practice among it's subscribers of changing plans, changing
    | > equipment, etc., etc.
    |
    | Except when you change plans they don't change the billing date so that
    | theory isn't appropriate. (Again we are not debating about how they do
    | prorating, but why they pick a random day as the billing date).

    Ah, but you DO expose yourself to proration unless you choose to have
    whatever changes that you want made take effect on the date the billing
    cycle starts. It matters NOT what the billing date is - what does matter is
    that you know what it is and act accordingly. Whenever I've asked them, they
    cheerfully tell me - and they patiently answer any/all questions. Too many
    lay all the blame/responsibility on a CSR who makes minimum wage and tries
    like hell to do a good job - which is exactly what most of them do. Those
    who blame the CSR should be taking the responsibility for themselves - after
    all, the responsibility IS theirs....!

    | > Any large business, in this case one with 39 million
    | > accounts, will spread billing dates out over the month for reasons too
    | > obvious to have to describe....just think of the workload involved in
    | > calculating and generating that many bills....
    |
    | It will also be obvious that customers will sign up all over the month
    | so if the billing date was the same as when you signed up, then you
    | would still get the billing date spread over the month. Unless you
    | want to argue that disproportionate numbers of people sign up on
    | specific dates. (The only issue would be for people signing up on
    | the 31st, but that only occurs 7 times a year).

    A disntinction without a difference - just because YOU think it's the "right
    way" doesn't make it so. Verizon's system is their system and since it's
    their company, they get to make the rules....! I don't want to argue at
    all - I merely contend that the carping about Verizon's methods in re
    billing is unjustified....!

    PC
     
  10. Proconsul

    Proconsul Guest

    "Roger Binns" <rogerb@rogerbinns.com> wrote in message
    news:tb9kr1-7oc.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com...
    | Proconsul wrote:
    | > Verizon is an independent business and has the absolute right to
    determine
    | > billing dates.....
    |
    | You keep missing my point. This is not sour grapes or anything else.
    | Yes, they could charge by the moon phase, or base it on your house number.
    | I am not arguing about what they can legally do, what they have the right
    | to do etc.

    It isn't I who has missed the point - Verizon does what they do because they
    find it the way they want to do it.....

    It is, indeed, nothing more than "sour grapes", i.e., they didn't do it your
    way so it's obviously wrong or some devious plot......:)

    | My question is *why* have they chosen this completely non-standard scheme
    | of picking a random date as your billing date. There might be some good
    reason
    | but I haven't seen it here.

    The reason is obvious - they developed a system that works for them the way
    they want it to work and into which they have to weave 39 million accounts.
    No rocket science involved here....

    | Instead by picking a random date, they have to explain to every customer
    | how their prorating works, and that they will be affected it on their
    | first bill. Then they have to deal with however many customers didn't
    | pay attention or didn't understand, which generates ill will, and
    | consumes CSR time.

    It's YOUR responsibility to pay attention, read and understand.....it's
    THEIR responsibility to explain. In my experience, they do explain. It's my
    observation that many people neither listen nor read. The criticism of
    Verizon is, IMO, simply not justified....

    | > Verizon uses the system in place to account for, in the main, the almost
    | > universal practice among it's subscribers of changing plans, changing
    | > equipment, etc., etc.
    |
    | Except when you change plans they don't change the billing date so that
    | theory isn't appropriate. (Again we are not debating about how they do
    | prorating, but why they pick a random day as the billing date).

    Ah, but you DO expose yourself to proration unless you choose to have
    whatever changes that you want made take effect on the date the billing
    cycle starts. It matters NOT what the billing date is - what does matter is
    that you know what it is and act accordingly. Whenever I've asked them, they
    cheerfully tell me - and they patiently answer any/all questions. Too many
    lay all the blame/responsibility on a CSR who makes minimum wage and tries
    like hell to do a good job - which is exactly what most of them do. Those
    who blame the CSR should be taking the responsibility for themselves - after
    all, the responsibility IS theirs....!

    | > Any large business, in this case one with 39 million
    | > accounts, will spread billing dates out over the month for reasons too
    | > obvious to have to describe....just think of the workload involved in
    | > calculating and generating that many bills....
    |
    | It will also be obvious that customers will sign up all over the month
    | so if the billing date was the same as when you signed up, then you
    | would still get the billing date spread over the month. Unless you
    | want to argue that disproportionate numbers of people sign up on
    | specific dates. (The only issue would be for people signing up on
    | the 31st, but that only occurs 7 times a year).

    A disntinction without a difference - just because YOU think it's the "right
    way" doesn't make it so. Verizon's system is their system and since it's
    their company, they get to make the rules....! I don't want to argue at
    all - I merely contend that the carping about Verizon's methods in re
    billing is unjustified....!

    PC
     
  11. Proconsul

    Proconsul Guest

    "Roger Binns" <rogerb@rogerbinns.com> wrote in message
    news:tb9kr1-7oc.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com...
    | Proconsul wrote:
    | > Verizon is an independent business and has the absolute right to
    determine
    | > billing dates.....
    |
    | You keep missing my point. This is not sour grapes or anything else.
    | Yes, they could charge by the moon phase, or base it on your house number.
    | I am not arguing about what they can legally do, what they have the right
    | to do etc.

    It isn't I who has missed the point - Verizon does what they do because they
    find it the way they want to do it.....

    It is, indeed, nothing more than "sour grapes", i.e., they didn't do it your
    way so it's obviously wrong or some devious plot......:)

    | My question is *why* have they chosen this completely non-standard scheme
    | of picking a random date as your billing date. There might be some good
    reason
    | but I haven't seen it here.

    The reason is obvious - they developed a system that works for them the way
    they want it to work and into which they have to weave 39 million accounts.
    No rocket science involved here....

    | Instead by picking a random date, they have to explain to every customer
    | how their prorating works, and that they will be affected it on their
    | first bill. Then they have to deal with however many customers didn't
    | pay attention or didn't understand, which generates ill will, and
    | consumes CSR time.

    It's YOUR responsibility to pay attention, read and understand.....it's
    THEIR responsibility to explain. In my experience, they do explain. It's my
    observation that many people neither listen nor read. The criticism of
    Verizon is, IMO, simply not justified....

    | > Verizon uses the system in place to account for, in the main, the almost
    | > universal practice among it's subscribers of changing plans, changing
    | > equipment, etc., etc.
    |
    | Except when you change plans they don't change the billing date so that
    | theory isn't appropriate. (Again we are not debating about how they do
    | prorating, but why they pick a random day as the billing date).

    Ah, but you DO expose yourself to proration unless you choose to have
    whatever changes that you want made take effect on the date the billing
    cycle starts. It matters NOT what the billing date is - what does matter is
    that you know what it is and act accordingly. Whenever I've asked them, they
    cheerfully tell me - and they patiently answer any/all questions. Too many
    lay all the blame/responsibility on a CSR who makes minimum wage and tries
    like hell to do a good job - which is exactly what most of them do. Those
    who blame the CSR should be taking the responsibility for themselves - after
    all, the responsibility IS theirs....!

    | > Any large business, in this case one with 39 million
    | > accounts, will spread billing dates out over the month for reasons too
    | > obvious to have to describe....just think of the workload involved in
    | > calculating and generating that many bills....
    |
    | It will also be obvious that customers will sign up all over the month
    | so if the billing date was the same as when you signed up, then you
    | would still get the billing date spread over the month. Unless you
    | want to argue that disproportionate numbers of people sign up on
    | specific dates. (The only issue would be for people signing up on
    | the 31st, but that only occurs 7 times a year).

    A disntinction without a difference - just because YOU think it's the "right
    way" doesn't make it so. Verizon's system is their system and since it's
    their company, they get to make the rules....! I don't want to argue at
    all - I merely contend that the carping about Verizon's methods in re
    billing is unjustified....!

    PC
     
  12. Proconsul

    Proconsul Guest

    "Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com> wrote in message
    news:phNFc.1246$zv3.819@fe32.usenetserver.com...
    | What's wrong with programming a fucking billing system to work honestly
    and
    | make NO mistakes? Why hell didn't you respond with that one? Of course you
    | took the easy route and would actually stick up for a company that would
    | over charge you and not have a care in the world about it.

    Their system is honest and you can't provide one shred of checkable evidence
    to the contrary....and you especially can't support your wild contention
    that they overcharge on purpose and don't care about it....!

    NO system is free of mistakes - if you factor in the fact that their are 39
    million accounts involved here, the number of mistakes is miniscule. AND,
    let's not forget while our rage clouds our judgement, that they will
    cheerfully fix any problem promptly....with the possible exception of those
    cases where they deal with loudmouted abusive screamers....!

    Lose the attitude, forget the vulgar language and you'll do a lot better....

    PC
     
  13. Proconsul

    Proconsul Guest

    "Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com> wrote in message
    news:phNFc.1246$zv3.819@fe32.usenetserver.com...
    | What's wrong with programming a fucking billing system to work honestly
    and
    | make NO mistakes? Why hell didn't you respond with that one? Of course you
    | took the easy route and would actually stick up for a company that would
    | over charge you and not have a care in the world about it.

    Their system is honest and you can't provide one shred of checkable evidence
    to the contrary....and you especially can't support your wild contention
    that they overcharge on purpose and don't care about it....!

    NO system is free of mistakes - if you factor in the fact that their are 39
    million accounts involved here, the number of mistakes is miniscule. AND,
    let's not forget while our rage clouds our judgement, that they will
    cheerfully fix any problem promptly....with the possible exception of those
    cases where they deal with loudmouted abusive screamers....!

    Lose the attitude, forget the vulgar language and you'll do a lot better....

    PC
     
  14. Proconsul

    Proconsul Guest

    "Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com> wrote in message
    news:phNFc.1246$zv3.819@fe32.usenetserver.com...
    | What's wrong with programming a fucking billing system to work honestly
    and
    | make NO mistakes? Why hell didn't you respond with that one? Of course you
    | took the easy route and would actually stick up for a company that would
    | over charge you and not have a care in the world about it.

    Their system is honest and you can't provide one shred of checkable evidence
    to the contrary....and you especially can't support your wild contention
    that they overcharge on purpose and don't care about it....!

    NO system is free of mistakes - if you factor in the fact that their are 39
    million accounts involved here, the number of mistakes is miniscule. AND,
    let's not forget while our rage clouds our judgement, that they will
    cheerfully fix any problem promptly....with the possible exception of those
    cases where they deal with loudmouted abusive screamers....!

    Lose the attitude, forget the vulgar language and you'll do a lot better....

    PC
     
  15. Proconsul

    Proconsul Guest

    "Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com> wrote in message
    news:phNFc.1246$zv3.819@fe32.usenetserver.com...
    | What's wrong with programming a fucking billing system to work honestly
    and
    | make NO mistakes? Why hell didn't you respond with that one? Of course you
    | took the easy route and would actually stick up for a company that would
    | over charge you and not have a care in the world about it.

    Their system is honest and you can't provide one shred of checkable evidence
    to the contrary....and you especially can't support your wild contention
    that they overcharge on purpose and don't care about it....!

    NO system is free of mistakes - if you factor in the fact that their are 39
    million accounts involved here, the number of mistakes is miniscule. AND,
    let's not forget while our rage clouds our judgement, that they will
    cheerfully fix any problem promptly....with the possible exception of those
    cases where they deal with loudmouted abusive screamers....!

    Lose the attitude, forget the vulgar language and you'll do a lot better....

    PC
     
  16. Proconsul

    Proconsul Guest

    "Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com> wrote in message
    news:phNFc.1246$zv3.819@fe32.usenetserver.com...
    | What's wrong with programming a fucking billing system to work honestly
    and
    | make NO mistakes? Why hell didn't you respond with that one? Of course you
    | took the easy route and would actually stick up for a company that would
    | over charge you and not have a care in the world about it.

    Their system is honest and you can't provide one shred of checkable evidence
    to the contrary....and you especially can't support your wild contention
    that they overcharge on purpose and don't care about it....!

    NO system is free of mistakes - if you factor in the fact that their are 39
    million accounts involved here, the number of mistakes is miniscule. AND,
    let's not forget while our rage clouds our judgement, that they will
    cheerfully fix any problem promptly....with the possible exception of those
    cases where they deal with loudmouted abusive screamers....!

    Lose the attitude, forget the vulgar language and you'll do a lot better....

    PC
     
  17. Roger Binns

    Roger Binns Guest

    Proconsul wrote:
    > It isn't I who has missed the point - Verizon does what they do because they
    > find it the way they want to do it.....


    An answer of "they do it that way because they do it that way" is not an answer
    just as saying "the earth goes around the sun because the earth goes around
    the sun" is not an answer, even if it is convenient for the earth to do so,
    and obvious that it does so.

    > It is, indeed, nothing more than "sour grapes", i.e., they didn't do it your
    > way so it's obviously wrong or some devious plot......:)


    Have you actually read my posts? I have not and am not complaining about
    it. I am merely asking why they do it that way. You are welcome to say
    that you don't know.

    > The reason is obvious - they developed a system that works for them the way
    > they want it to work and into which they have to weave 39 million accounts.
    > No rocket science involved here....


    Well, we already know that it is different practise from every other
    utility and service provider out there, and that they have to explain
    to *every* new customer how prorating works, and they have to deal
    with a proportion of those customer who didn't understand or didn't
    pay attention. Those things cost good will and they cost CSR time
    for people calling in and salespeople doing the explaining. It is
    evident to us that there are costs to their use of random dates.

    > It's YOUR responsibility to pay attention, read and understand.....it's
    > THEIR responsibility to explain. In my experience, they do explain. It's my
    > observation that many people neither listen nor read. The criticism of
    > Verizon is, IMO, simply not justified....


    That is not the point as I keep saying.

    > Ah, but you DO expose yourself to proration


    I am not asking about how proration works. Proration is *not* the
    issue. The issue is *why* the billing date is a random date and
    not based on the day you signed up. Because they pick a random
    day it means that every single customer has to deal with proration
    on their very first bill (as does the billing system), which means
    that the sales people have to explain, the CSRs have to deal with
    the people who didn't understand or pay attention etc

    If you change your plan later on, dealing with proration is fine,
    and I expect many people do what I did which is get the change to
    happen on the billing date therefore there were no proration issues.

    > A disntinction without a difference - just because YOU think it's the "right
    > way" doesn't make it so. Verizon's system is their system and since it's
    > their company, they get to make the rules....! I don't want to argue at
    > all - I merely contend that the carping about Verizon's methods in re
    > billing is unjustified....!


    What is so different about VZW that they can't do it the same way
    as every single other similar business out there? And as a customer,
    guess who ultimately pays for all those calls from people who didn't
    understand or didn't pay attention? I would rather they spend my
    payments on improved service, better phones, etc than on customer
    support that wouldn't be necessary if billing dates hadn't been
    made so complicated in the first place. You may understand just
    fine, but that doesn't mean all the other new customers do.

    And while I agree with you about the competency of the VZW CSRs,
    I have found that I have to call in too often because of billing
    errors and that it takes (IMHO) far to much time on the phone
    to resolve. Again that is customer revenue being spent on
    things that aren't of any real benefit to the customer or
    to VZW. (Feel free to call this paragraph sour grapes).

    Roger
     
  18. Roger Binns

    Roger Binns Guest

    Proconsul wrote:
    > It isn't I who has missed the point - Verizon does what they do because they
    > find it the way they want to do it.....


    An answer of "they do it that way because they do it that way" is not an answer
    just as saying "the earth goes around the sun because the earth goes around
    the sun" is not an answer, even if it is convenient for the earth to do so,
    and obvious that it does so.

    > It is, indeed, nothing more than "sour grapes", i.e., they didn't do it your
    > way so it's obviously wrong or some devious plot......:)


    Have you actually read my posts? I have not and am not complaining about
    it. I am merely asking why they do it that way. You are welcome to say
    that you don't know.

    > The reason is obvious - they developed a system that works for them the way
    > they want it to work and into which they have to weave 39 million accounts.
    > No rocket science involved here....


    Well, we already know that it is different practise from every other
    utility and service provider out there, and that they have to explain
    to *every* new customer how prorating works, and they have to deal
    with a proportion of those customer who didn't understand or didn't
    pay attention. Those things cost good will and they cost CSR time
    for people calling in and salespeople doing the explaining. It is
    evident to us that there are costs to their use of random dates.

    > It's YOUR responsibility to pay attention, read and understand.....it's
    > THEIR responsibility to explain. In my experience, they do explain. It's my
    > observation that many people neither listen nor read. The criticism of
    > Verizon is, IMO, simply not justified....


    That is not the point as I keep saying.

    > Ah, but you DO expose yourself to proration


    I am not asking about how proration works. Proration is *not* the
    issue. The issue is *why* the billing date is a random date and
    not based on the day you signed up. Because they pick a random
    day it means that every single customer has to deal with proration
    on their very first bill (as does the billing system), which means
    that the sales people have to explain, the CSRs have to deal with
    the people who didn't understand or pay attention etc

    If you change your plan later on, dealing with proration is fine,
    and I expect many people do what I did which is get the change to
    happen on the billing date therefore there were no proration issues.

    > A disntinction without a difference - just because YOU think it's the "right
    > way" doesn't make it so. Verizon's system is their system and since it's
    > their company, they get to make the rules....! I don't want to argue at
    > all - I merely contend that the carping about Verizon's methods in re
    > billing is unjustified....!


    What is so different about VZW that they can't do it the same way
    as every single other similar business out there? And as a customer,
    guess who ultimately pays for all those calls from people who didn't
    understand or didn't pay attention? I would rather they spend my
    payments on improved service, better phones, etc than on customer
    support that wouldn't be necessary if billing dates hadn't been
    made so complicated in the first place. You may understand just
    fine, but that doesn't mean all the other new customers do.

    And while I agree with you about the competency of the VZW CSRs,
    I have found that I have to call in too often because of billing
    errors and that it takes (IMHO) far to much time on the phone
    to resolve. Again that is customer revenue being spent on
    things that aren't of any real benefit to the customer or
    to VZW. (Feel free to call this paragraph sour grapes).

    Roger
     
  19. Roger Binns

    Roger Binns Guest

    Proconsul wrote:
    > It isn't I who has missed the point - Verizon does what they do because they
    > find it the way they want to do it.....


    An answer of "they do it that way because they do it that way" is not an answer
    just as saying "the earth goes around the sun because the earth goes around
    the sun" is not an answer, even if it is convenient for the earth to do so,
    and obvious that it does so.

    > It is, indeed, nothing more than "sour grapes", i.e., they didn't do it your
    > way so it's obviously wrong or some devious plot......:)


    Have you actually read my posts? I have not and am not complaining about
    it. I am merely asking why they do it that way. You are welcome to say
    that you don't know.

    > The reason is obvious - they developed a system that works for them the way
    > they want it to work and into which they have to weave 39 million accounts.
    > No rocket science involved here....


    Well, we already know that it is different practise from every other
    utility and service provider out there, and that they have to explain
    to *every* new customer how prorating works, and they have to deal
    with a proportion of those customer who didn't understand or didn't
    pay attention. Those things cost good will and they cost CSR time
    for people calling in and salespeople doing the explaining. It is
    evident to us that there are costs to their use of random dates.

    > It's YOUR responsibility to pay attention, read and understand.....it's
    > THEIR responsibility to explain. In my experience, they do explain. It's my
    > observation that many people neither listen nor read. The criticism of
    > Verizon is, IMO, simply not justified....


    That is not the point as I keep saying.

    > Ah, but you DO expose yourself to proration


    I am not asking about how proration works. Proration is *not* the
    issue. The issue is *why* the billing date is a random date and
    not based on the day you signed up. Because they pick a random
    day it means that every single customer has to deal with proration
    on their very first bill (as does the billing system), which means
    that the sales people have to explain, the CSRs have to deal with
    the people who didn't understand or pay attention etc

    If you change your plan later on, dealing with proration is fine,
    and I expect many people do what I did which is get the change to
    happen on the billing date therefore there were no proration issues.

    > A disntinction without a difference - just because YOU think it's the "right
    > way" doesn't make it so. Verizon's system is their system and since it's
    > their company, they get to make the rules....! I don't want to argue at
    > all - I merely contend that the carping about Verizon's methods in re
    > billing is unjustified....!


    What is so different about VZW that they can't do it the same way
    as every single other similar business out there? And as a customer,
    guess who ultimately pays for all those calls from people who didn't
    understand or didn't pay attention? I would rather they spend my
    payments on improved service, better phones, etc than on customer
    support that wouldn't be necessary if billing dates hadn't been
    made so complicated in the first place. You may understand just
    fine, but that doesn't mean all the other new customers do.

    And while I agree with you about the competency of the VZW CSRs,
    I have found that I have to call in too often because of billing
    errors and that it takes (IMHO) far to much time on the phone
    to resolve. Again that is customer revenue being spent on
    things that aren't of any real benefit to the customer or
    to VZW. (Feel free to call this paragraph sour grapes).

    Roger
     
  20. Roger Binns

    Roger Binns Guest

    Proconsul wrote:
    > It isn't I who has missed the point - Verizon does what they do because they
    > find it the way they want to do it.....


    An answer of "they do it that way because they do it that way" is not an answer
    just as saying "the earth goes around the sun because the earth goes around
    the sun" is not an answer, even if it is convenient for the earth to do so,
    and obvious that it does so.

    > It is, indeed, nothing more than "sour grapes", i.e., they didn't do it your
    > way so it's obviously wrong or some devious plot......:)


    Have you actually read my posts? I have not and am not complaining about
    it. I am merely asking why they do it that way. You are welcome to say
    that you don't know.

    > The reason is obvious - they developed a system that works for them the way
    > they want it to work and into which they have to weave 39 million accounts.
    > No rocket science involved here....


    Well, we already know that it is different practise from every other
    utility and service provider out there, and that they have to explain
    to *every* new customer how prorating works, and they have to deal
    with a proportion of those customer who didn't understand or didn't
    pay attention. Those things cost good will and they cost CSR time
    for people calling in and salespeople doing the explaining. It is
    evident to us that there are costs to their use of random dates.

    > It's YOUR responsibility to pay attention, read and understand.....it's
    > THEIR responsibility to explain. In my experience, they do explain. It's my
    > observation that many people neither listen nor read. The criticism of
    > Verizon is, IMO, simply not justified....


    That is not the point as I keep saying.

    > Ah, but you DO expose yourself to proration


    I am not asking about how proration works. Proration is *not* the
    issue. The issue is *why* the billing date is a random date and
    not based on the day you signed up. Because they pick a random
    day it means that every single customer has to deal with proration
    on their very first bill (as does the billing system), which means
    that the sales people have to explain, the CSRs have to deal with
    the people who didn't understand or pay attention etc

    If you change your plan later on, dealing with proration is fine,
    and I expect many people do what I did which is get the change to
    happen on the billing date therefore there were no proration issues.

    > A disntinction without a difference - just because YOU think it's the "right
    > way" doesn't make it so. Verizon's system is their system and since it's
    > their company, they get to make the rules....! I don't want to argue at
    > all - I merely contend that the carping about Verizon's methods in re
    > billing is unjustified....!


    What is so different about VZW that they can't do it the same way
    as every single other similar business out there? And as a customer,
    guess who ultimately pays for all those calls from people who didn't
    understand or didn't pay attention? I would rather they spend my
    payments on improved service, better phones, etc than on customer
    support that wouldn't be necessary if billing dates hadn't been
    made so complicated in the first place. You may understand just
    fine, but that doesn't mean all the other new customers do.

    And while I agree with you about the competency of the VZW CSRs,
    I have found that I have to call in too often because of billing
    errors and that it takes (IMHO) far to much time on the phone
    to resolve. Again that is customer revenue being spent on
    things that aren't of any real benefit to the customer or
    to VZW. (Feel free to call this paragraph sour grapes).

    Roger
     

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