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Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more roaming, even at extra cost, No more National

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by Steven M. Scharf, May 24, 2005.

  1. Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more roaming, even at
    extra cost, No more National Single Rate Plan.

    The original America's Choice calling plan from Verizon was a great plan. It
    included a lot of off-network roaming, at no extra charge, in areas where
    Verizon did not have a network. Where Verizon didn't have a roaming
    agreement, your phone could still be used, but at extra cost.

    Verizon has been worsening America's Choice almost from its inception. They
    began by abandoning roaming agreements, so that there was a lot less
    included roaming, and a lot more extra-cost roaming. When this was disclosed
    by people who were analyzing their PRLs (preferred roaming lists), they
    forced these people to take this information off the web.

    Now they have changed the plan again, and new subscribers will have no
    roaming at all, even at an extra charge. This means that you can only use
    the phone in areas where Verizon has service (except for 911 calls). If
    you're out of Verizon's coverage area, your phone is a paperweight except
    for 911 access.

    Driving from the San Francisco Bay Area to Yosemite? Your phone will stop
    working completely on the outskirts of Oakdale, where Golden State Cellular
    is the carrier, and you'll have no coverage inside the park. Driving up the
    California Coast to Mendocino? No coverage. Alaska? No coverage. The list
    goes on and on.

    To complete the service reduction, Verizon no longer offers the National
    Single Rate plan. According to their sales people, they have NO plans that
    offer off-network roaming (though their web site states that their Digital
    Choice plan (local plan), and their InPulse prepaid plan, allow roaming at
    69¢ per minute).

    Verizon's web site is intentionally misleading. It states, for America's
    Choice, "Domestic Roaming (No roaming charges) (Coverage not available in
    all areas)," without stating that what they really mean is that you cannot
    actually roam onto any other carrier's network.

    Previous America's Choice subscribers will still be able to roam off
    Verizon, though there will be less and less included roaming, as Verizon
    abandons roaming agreements.
     



    › See More: Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more roaming, even at extra cost, No more National
  2. Quick

    Quick Guest

    So what's your point?

    Was this a public service for those who can't read?

    -Quick

    Steven M. Scharf wrote:
    > Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more
    > roaming, even at extra cost, No more National Single Rate
    > Plan.
    >
    > The original America's Choice calling plan from Verizon
    > was a great plan. It included a lot of off-network
    > roaming, at no extra charge, in areas where Verizon did
    > not have a network. Where Verizon didn't have a roaming
    > agreement, your phone could still be used, but at extra
    > cost.
    >
    > Verizon has been worsening America's Choice almost from
    > its inception. They began by abandoning roaming
    > agreements, so that there was a lot less included
    > roaming, and a lot more extra-cost roaming. When this was
    > disclosed by people who were analyzing their PRLs
    > (preferred roaming lists), they forced these people to
    > take this information off the web.
    >
    > Now they have changed the plan again, and new subscribers
    > will have no roaming at all, even at an extra charge.
    > This means that you can only use the phone in areas where
    > Verizon has service (except for 911 calls). If you're out
    > of Verizon's coverage area, your phone is a paperweight
    > except for 911 access.
    >
    > Driving from the San Francisco Bay Area to Yosemite? Your
    > phone will stop working completely on the outskirts of
    > Oakdale, where Golden State Cellular is the carrier, and
    > you'll have no coverage inside the park. Driving up the
    > California Coast to Mendocino? No coverage. Alaska? No
    > coverage. The list goes on and on.
    >
    > To complete the service reduction, Verizon no longer
    > offers the National Single Rate plan. According to their
    > sales people, they have NO plans that offer off-network
    > roaming (though their web site states that their Digital
    > Choice plan (local plan), and their InPulse prepaid plan,
    > allow roaming at 69¢ per minute).
    >
    > Verizon's web site is intentionally misleading. It
    > states, for America's Choice, "Domestic Roaming (No
    > roaming charges) (Coverage not available in all areas),"
    > without stating that what they really mean is that you
    > cannot actually roam onto any other carrier's network.
    >
    > Previous America's Choice subscribers will still be able
    > to roam off Verizon, though there will be less and less
    > included roaming, as Verizon abandons roaming agreements.
     
  3. Rich

    Rich Guest

    Re: Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more roaming,even at extra cost, No more National Single Rate Plan.

    If there is a brand new plan out today that is different from the new
    America's Choice plan that was released a few months ago, disregard this
    message and point me to the new plan, otherwise, read on...

    Where are you people getting your information from??? The new America's
    Choice plan that doesn't allow roaming, still allows calls on their
    extended network which includes many many non-Verizon carriers. If you
    want to see what you systems you can use, check out the PRL that shows
    you exactly what systems your phone can use.
    (http://mallard.rainyday.mb.ca/~dialtone/vzw/vz_50295.html) Also, I
    don't know where the info about them removing partners has come from,
    when the new AC plan first came out, they changed many partners that
    used to be paid roaming to be part of the extended network, and each PRL
    release usually adds a few more partners.

    Part of the confusion is that what Verizon calls roaming isn't the true
    definition of roaming. The true definition is placing a call that is
    not on your home SID, but Verizon considers roaming to be placing a call
    on a system that is not part of their extended network and (prior to the
    new AC) you would have to pay for.

    Rich

    P.S. I only posted this to alt.cellular.verizon instead of all the
    non-relavent groups the original message was sent to.

    Steven M. Scharf wrote:
    > Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more roaming, even at
    > extra cost, No more National Single Rate Plan.
    >
    > The original America's Choice calling plan from Verizon was a great plan. It
    > included a lot of off-network roaming, at no extra charge, in areas where
    > Verizon did not have a network. Where Verizon didn't have a roaming
    > agreement, your phone could still be used, but at extra cost.
    >
    > Verizon has been worsening America's Choice almost from its inception. They
    > began by abandoning roaming agreements, so that there was a lot less
    > included roaming, and a lot more extra-cost roaming. When this was disclosed
    > by people who were analyzing their PRLs (preferred roaming lists), they
    > forced these people to take this information off the web.
    >
    > Now they have changed the plan again, and new subscribers will have no
    > roaming at all, even at an extra charge. This means that you can only use
    > the phone in areas where Verizon has service (except for 911 calls). If
    > you're out of Verizon's coverage area, your phone is a paperweight except
    > for 911 access.
    >
    > Driving from the San Francisco Bay Area to Yosemite? Your phone will stop
    > working completely on the outskirts of Oakdale, where Golden State Cellular
    > is the carrier, and you'll have no coverage inside the park. Driving up the
    > California Coast to Mendocino? No coverage. Alaska? No coverage. The list
    > goes on and on.
    >
    > To complete the service reduction, Verizon no longer offers the National
    > Single Rate plan. According to their sales people, they have NO plans that
    > offer off-network roaming (though their web site states that their Digital
    > Choice plan (local plan), and their InPulse prepaid plan, allow roaming at
    > 69¢ per minute).
    >
    > Verizon's web site is intentionally misleading. It states, for America's
    > Choice, "Domestic Roaming (No roaming charges) (Coverage not available in
    > all areas)," without stating that what they really mean is that you cannot
    > actually roam onto any other carrier's network.
    >
    > Previous America's Choice subscribers will still be able to roam off
    > Verizon, though there will be less and less included roaming, as Verizon
    > abandons roaming agreements.
     
  4. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Guest

    "Quick" <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1116954161.859746@sj-nntpcache-5...
    > So what's your point?
    >
    > Was this a public service for those who can't read?
    >
    > -Quick


    If you noticed, the OP was crossposted for all the cellular newsgroups in
    the galaxy, and a few other newsgroups as well. It was news to yours truly,
    and I'm sure quite a few others, who don't participate on the Verizon
    newsgroup.

    Bob
     
  5. Quick

    Quick Guest

    Bob Smith wrote:
    > "Quick" <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:1116954161.859746@sj-nntpcache-5...
    >> So what's your point?
    >>
    >> Was this a public service for those who can't read?
    >>
    >> -Quick

    >
    > If you noticed, the OP was crossposted for all the
    > cellular newsgroups in the galaxy, and a few other
    > newsgroups as well. It was news to yours truly, and I'm
    > sure quite a few others, who don't participate on the
    > Verizon newsgroup.


    Holy cow! No, I didn't notice. Why? Why would 99%
    of those off this group care?

    -Quick
     
  6. clifto

    clifto Guest

    Quick wrote:
    > Bob Smith wrote:
    >> If you noticed, the OP was crossposted for all the
    >> cellular newsgroups in the galaxy, and a few other
    >> newsgroups as well. It was news to yours truly, and I'm
    >> sure quite a few others, who don't participate on the
    >> Verizon newsgroup.

    >
    > Holy cow! No, I didn't notice. Why? Why would 99%
    > of those off this group care?


    I saw at least one person in the Cingular newsgroup who's mad at Cingular
    and ready to switch to Verizon. It's good for others to know this before
    they consider such a move.

    --
    I miss my .signature.
     
  7. Rich

    Rich Guest

    Re: Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more roaming,even at extra cost, No more National Single Rate Plan.

    clifto wrote:
    > Quick wrote:
    >
    >>Bob Smith wrote:
    >>
    >>>If you noticed, the OP was crossposted for all the
    >>>cellular newsgroups in the galaxy, and a few other
    >>>newsgroups as well. It was news to yours truly, and I'm
    >>>sure quite a few others, who don't participate on the
    >>>Verizon newsgroup.

    >>
    >>Holy cow! No, I didn't notice. Why? Why would 99%
    >>of those off this group care?

    >
    >
    > I saw at least one person in the Cingular newsgroup who's mad at Cingular
    > and ready to switch to Verizon. It's good for others to know this before
    > they consider such a move.
    >


    Except the information provided was mostly false.

    Rich
     
  8. "clifto" <clifto@clifto.com> wrote in message
    news:a6ccm2-tjc.ln1@remote.clifto.com...

    > I saw at least one person in the Cingular newsgroup who's mad at Cingular
    > and ready to switch to Verizon. It's good for others to know this before
    > they consider such a move.


    This is true. Personally, I could not believe that Verizon would do such a
    thing. I called customer service to confirm that the 'no paid roaming'
    reduction was not being imposed on existing customers. Then I called back
    again to sales, asking if America's Choice had off-network roaming
    available, and was told that it did not. So I asked about National Single
    Rate, and was told that it was no longer available. Where the CSR may have
    been wrong is that at least on Verizon's web site, both Digital Choice and
    InPulse, show roaming available for 69¢/minute. However for Digital Choice,
    it may mean roaming on Verizon only, while on InPulse off-network roaming is
    available (at least according to the web site. I called back a third time,
    just to ask why they made this change, and got the answer I expected. It was
    because they had too many complaints of people getting hit with roaming
    charges, when they though they were not roaming (as AC coverage has been
    reduced, more areas have become roaming, but since most people never update
    their PRL, they thought they were still on the Extended Network).

    I learned a long time ago to always call Verizon multiple times in order to
    have a better chance of getting a correct answer, and this time I got the
    same answer all three times.

    Last month I was up in Northern California, and I had both my phone and my
    wife's phone (same model). She never updates her PRL, and it showed
    "Extended Network" in Eureka. I have an up-to-date PRL and my phone showed
    that I was roaming off the Extended Network. We both were roaming in areas
    where there was no digital service, only AMPS, just south of Crescent City.
     
  9. "Rich" <mathwhiz@mathwhiz.org> wrote in message
    news:TaydnRqTr972Hg7fRVn-1w@comcast.com...
    > clifto wrote:
    > > Quick wrote:
    > >
    > >>Bob Smith wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>If you noticed, the OP was crossposted for all the
    > >>>cellular newsgroups in the galaxy, and a few other
    > >>>newsgroups as well. It was news to yours truly, and I'm
    > >>>sure quite a few others, who don't participate on the
    > >>>Verizon newsgroup.
    > >>
    > >>Holy cow! No, I didn't notice. Why? Why would 99%
    > >>of those off this group care?

    > >
    > >
    > > I saw at least one person in the Cingular newsgroup who's mad at

    Cingular
    > > and ready to switch to Verizon. It's good for others to know this before
    > > they consider such a move.
    > >

    >
    > Except the information provided was mostly false.


    I called Verizon three times, just to be certain that the information was
    correct. It is all true. There is no more roaming off-network on America's
    Choice (AC). I think your confusion is that when the rest of us refer to AC
    we mean all of AC, including the Extended Network, but you think that we are
    referring only to native Verizon coverage.

    The bottom line is that if you are in one of the many areas where there is
    no AC coverage, either on Verizon or on the Extended Network, then your
    phone will no longer work, even if you are perfectly willing to pay 69¢ per
    minute to roam.

    The reason for this change was explained to me as well. They were getting
    too many complaints about roaming charges from customers that thought that
    they were on the Extended Network, when they really were not. As the
    Extended Network has shrunk, customer that fail to update their PRL are
    seeing incorrect indicators on their phone regarding roaming.

    The reason that National Single Rate was dropped was because Verizon was
    incurring too much expense from having to pay for all the roaming charges,
    since the only people buying it were those who were doing a lot of
    off-network roaming. Existing NSR customers can keep their plan, but new
    customers cannot sign up for it.
     
  10. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    Rich <mathwhiz@mathwhiz.org> wrote in news:vvudndbKYKY-_w7fRVn-
    vA@comcast.com:

    > http://mallard.rainyday.mb.ca/~dialtone/vzw/vz_50295.html


    Very interesting. VZW has it scanning a whole range of PCS channels in
    Charleston, SC, where VZW is the "A" 800 Mhz carrier. No mention of Alltel
    on "B" to keep it from using Alltel's good service in the VZW dead zones
    around the city, but it'll be scanning PCS.

    Wonder if they are getting ready to buy a PCS system in Charleston, SC??
    Sprint is the only CDMA carrier on PCS and if you have an old PRL that
    allows roaming to Sprint, Sprint simply refuses to connect the call....

    Maybe these PCS IDs are the 911 service for the dead zones when the VZW
    phones are reading NO SERVICE???

    Thanks for the pointer..... The only thing it will connect to in SC is VZW
    native service on the phones....
     
  11. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    clifto <clifto@clifto.com> wrote in news:a6ccm2-tjc.ln1@remote.clifto.com:

    > I saw at least one person in the Cingular newsgroup who's mad at Cingular
    > and ready to switch to Verizon. It's good for others to know this before
    > they consider such a move.
    >


    I'm with Alltel, but I care. I'm not brand-loyal at all. I used to have
    VZW's service in Charleston, SC. GTE bought up Cellular One when the
    company crunching went on.

    Any cellular customer should be interested in the shenanigans of all the
    carriers. If you don't need service in the SC boondocks, SunCom on ATT's
    system is the best deal here. 1000 minutes is $39.95....no addons, no
    taxes, no mysterious charges for things you never heard of...the bill
    really IS $39.95 every month. Sometimes, SunCom sells UNLIMITED service,
    24/7 for $49.95! I know people who have it. They have no minute games.
    Too bad it only works within 2 miles of an ATT tower in the cities and
    along the interstates of SC/NC....(sigh)
     
  12. Larry W4CSC

    Larry W4CSC Guest

    "Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in
    news:6HMke.7392$uR4.3396@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:

    > Digital Choice and
    > InPulse, show roaming available for 69¢/minute.


    One of the best reasons I ditched them to Alltel was I keep my 800
    mins/month ($39 and $8 tax/addons) that only covers SC/NC and a slice of
    surrounding states. A Florida trip on VZW's LDC cost me $267 last time the
    sailboat was in FL.

    On Alltel, you simply call 611 and "buy" 100 minutes of nationwide service
    for $10. $10! It works anywhere the phone has a PRL-allowed signal across
    the country. When you get down to your last 10 minutes, you get a text
    message telling you so and asking you if you want 100 minutes more for
    another $10. Reply if you want more....rather than go roaming at National
    Debt rates like VZW charges.....

    I only buy nationwide service when I NEED nationwide service....and get
    lots of local minutes in the 2 states at home....
     
  13. royc

    royc Guest

    Since the beginning of April, Alltel has allowed you to change your
    calling plan without any contract extension. For instance, you could
    change to Total Freedom before going on a driving vacation out west
    then change back to Greater Freedom when you return. I think the
    changes have to be for the entire billing month to keep the prorating
    of the bill from causing problems. Here's a thread that expains it in
    more detail:

    http://www.alltelusers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=628

    royc
     
  14. "royc" <clouston@sprynet.com> wrote in message
    news:1116976545.487076.140370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > Since the beginning of April, Alltel has allowed you to change your
    > calling plan without any contract extension. For instance, you could
    > change to Total Freedom before going on a driving vacation out west
    > then change back to Greater Freedom when you return. I think the
    > changes have to be for the entire billing month to keep the prorating
    > of the bill from causing problems. Here's a thread that expains it in
    > more detail:
    >
    > http://www.alltelusers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=628


    Cool idea.

    If I change my Verizon plan now, i.e. go to a family plan which I was
    considering, I will lose my 8:01 p.m. off-peak start time, and lose the
    ability to roam off of their network or extended network.

    GSM coverage is terrible in my area, so Cingular isn't an option, and Sprint
    would cost me a lot more money.
     
  15. royc

    royc Guest

    If you have an old plan with Alltel and you leave it for another plan,
    you cannot go back to the old plan. I think all carriers have that
    policy. You can switch to any currently offered plan without extending
    your contract obligation. You can do this every month if you like and
    you can do it after your contract expires without any obligation to
    sign a new contract.

    At Alltel, contracts are now really only used to recover the subsidised
    cost of the phone. If you furnish your own handset (must be Alltel and
    E911 compliant) or pay full retail price for it, you're not required to
    have a contract, as I understand it.

    royc
     
  16. agentHibby

    agentHibby New Member

    Messages:
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    With Verizon they will give you 15 days to switch from back to an old plan, unless it is a predecessor plan (Airtouch, GTE, Primeco) then you won't be able to.
     
  17. Quick

    Quick Guest

    agentHibby wrote:
    > With Verizon they will give you 15 days to switch from
    > back to an old plan, unless it is a predecessor plan
    > (Airtouch, GTE, Primeco) then you won't be able to.


    This could actually be one of the few regional things
    left in VZW. Here in CA you get 30 days.

    -Quick
     
  18. * * Chas

    * * Chas Guest

    "Quick" <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1116996430.717996@sj-nntpcache-5...
    > agentHibby wrote:
    > > With Verizon they will give you 15 days to switch from
    > > back to an old plan, unless it is a predecessor plan
    > > (Airtouch, GTE, Primeco) then you won't be able to.

    >
    > This could actually be one of the few regional things
    > left in VZW. Here in CA you get 30 days.
    >
    > -Quick


    I think that the 30 day trial period is a California regulation and
    not out of the goodness of the service provider's hearts!

    Chas.
     
  19. Quick

    Quick Guest

    * * Chas wrote:
    > "Quick" <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:1116996430.717996@sj-nntpcache-5...
    >> agentHibby wrote:
    >>> With Verizon they will give you 15 days to switch from
    >>> back to an old plan, unless it is a predecessor plan
    >>> (Airtouch, GTE, Primeco) then you won't be able to.

    >>
    >> This could actually be one of the few regional things
    >> left in VZW. Here in CA you get 30 days.
    >>
    >> -Quick

    >
    > I think that the 30 day trial period is a California
    > regulation and not out of the goodness of the service
    > provider's hearts!


    No doubt about that -:) But it is different here than
    elsewhere. I guess it's not really VZW regional but
    a state regulation thing.

    -Quick
     
  20. Jim Seymour

    Jim Seymour Guest

    In article <qOJke.9842$w21.1430@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
    "Bob Smith" <usirsclt_No_Spam_@earthlink.net> writes:
    >
    > "Quick" <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:1116954161.859746@sj-nntpcache-5...
    >> So what's your point?
    >>
    >> Was this a public service for those who can't read?
    >>

    [snip]
    > It was news to yours truly,
    > and I'm sure quite a few others, who don't participate on the Verizon
    > newsgroup.


    It was timely, for me, being as I'm on the verge of choosing a new
    plan and phones. I'll *probably* stick with SPCS, but VZ would
    probably be my 2nd choice. Or would have been.

    I wonder what VZ hopes to gain by shrinking their coverage?

    --
    Jim Seymour | "There is no expedient to which a man will not
    jseymour@LinxNet.com | go to avoid the labor of thinking."
    http://jimsun.LinxNet.com | - Thomas A. Edison
     

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