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VZW racks up more charges = profit

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by AL, Nov 30, 2003.

  1. Peter Pan

    Peter Pan Guest

    "Group Special Mobile" <look@signature_to.reply> wrote in message
    news:jsdnsv4hud2rs2lm390ls39egsl0h7s0qt@4ax.com...
    > On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:34:39 -0800, "Peter Pan"
    > <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"Carl." <KronkKronk@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > >news:HFJyb.70915$do1.11708@twister.austin.rr.com...
    > >> "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
    > >> news:67CdnbnZUazFy1aiRVn-tw@lmi.net...
    > >> > In alt.cellular Group Special Mobile <look@signature_to.reply> wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> > > Another "advantage" of CDMA! GSM customers get the equivalent for

    $0!
    > >> >
    > >> > You seriously must be joking.
    > >> >
    > >> > This is not an "advantage" of GSM - it's the policy of individual

    > >carriers
    > >> > and has nothing to do with CDMA itself.
    > >>
    > >> Well, it sort of takes the option out of the carrier's hands.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> ---
    > >> Update your PC at http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com
    > >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    > >> Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release Date: 11/28/2003
    > >>
    > >>

    > >
    > >I don't see that. You can call 611 or go to the verizon website and do an
    > >ESN swap for free, it's only if you go into a verizon store and have one

    of
    > >their CS people do it for you instead of doing it yourself that you get
    > >charged, how much does it cost for GSM phone owners to go into a store

    and
    > >have someone there take the sim out of one phone and put it in another.
    > >That's what the charge is for.. personal service.

    >
    > It doesn't take a rocket scientist to take a chip out of one phone and
    > put it in another.
    >
    > I'm betting that if you went into a GSM carrier's store or a dealer
    > and asked the dealer to do it for you they would and not think a thing
    > about it. Why you would is another matter.
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > To send an email reply send to
    > GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com


    Well then why would you go into a store or dealer and have them change an
    esn for a price? You say there is no charge for changing the sim yourself,
    is there a charge for changing an ESN yourself? Aren't you comparing
    do-it-yourself to have someone else do it for me?
     



    › See More: VZW racks up more charges = profit
  2. CharlesH

    CharlesH Guest

    In article <jsdnsv4hud2rs2lm390ls39egsl0h7s0qt@4ax.com>,
    Group Special Mobile <look@signature_for_reply_instructions> wrote:
    >It doesn't take a rocket scientist to take a chip out of one phone and
    >put it in another.
    >
    >I'm betting that if you went into a GSM carrier's store or a dealer
    >and asked the dealer to do it for you they would and not think a thing
    >about it. Why you would is another matter.


    Just curious... On phones today you have downloaded ringtones,
    screensavers, and applications, along with voice notes. Do these things
    fit on a GSM SIM card, or does the SIM card have only the ID and
    phonebook info? Somewhere I recall reading about a case where a person
    could only fit part of their phonebook on the SIM, and had to put the
    rest in the phone.
     
  3. Peter Pan

    Peter Pan Guest

    "Group Special Mobile" <look@signature_to.reply> wrote in message
    news:eek:hdnsvoo418l3jkn62dh70edfe9nmhdi89@4ax.com...
    > On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:37:23 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    > <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
    >
    > >In alt.cellular Shawn <sbainer@nospamcolumbus.rr.com> wrote:
    > >
    > >> It sure is an advantage. You can swap your sim anytime you want

    without the
    > >> carrier ever knowing you did it. That' a huge advatage if your

    "provider"
    > >> is going to charge you a fee to do an esn change.

    > >
    > >IF.
    > >
    > >It STILL is not a CDMA-specific issue. Kindly refrain from painting it as
    > >a CDMA-specific issue. Thanks :)
    > >
    > >And VZW doesn't charge for online ESN changes or ESN changes done over

    the
    > >phone, as far as I recall - just for changes done in-store.

    >
    > It still remains that you make it inconvenient for the end user. If
    > you as the end user make the decision at the start of your day that
    > you just need a plain old phone that doesn't do anything special all
    > you have to do with SIMs or R-UIMs is take the chip out of the phone
    > and put it in the phone that you wish to use that day and presto you
    > have service in the phone that you want to use that day. Same holds
    > true if you need a phone that does more such as a PDA type phone a la
    > Treo or RIM Blackberry. I am laying that one on the CDMA camp as they
    > came late into the game with smart card technology. If CDMA was so up
    > there technologically why wasn't R-UIM part of the original CDMA spec
    > when SIM technology was part of the GSM spec from the outset. CDMA
    > may have some technically superior aspects to GSM, but some things
    > just are *not* as good such as the flexibility GSM gives with SIM
    > technology.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > To send an email reply send to
    > GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com


    A question for you, if your phone is lost or stolen, or in for repair, how
    do you activate a new handset? (must happen or they wouldn't insure em)
     
  4. Peter Pan

    Peter Pan Guest

    "Group Special Mobile" <look@signature_to.reply> wrote in message
    news:nbdnsvk14qumgkkomkk0rgeo56bptg0g9u@4ax.com...
    > On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:55:20 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    > <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
    >
    > >In alt.cellular Group Special Mobile <look@signature_to.reply> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Another "advantage" of CDMA! GSM customers get the equivalent for $0!

    > >
    > >You seriously must be joking.
    > >
    > >This is not an "advantage" of GSM - it's the policy of individual

    carriers
    > >and has nothing to do with CDMA itself.

    >
    > If that's the case than why did GSM have SIMs from the outset and CDMA
    > is only *starting* to use R-UIM technology! Is there some special
    > reason that CDMA chose to be less convenient for the end user? Do you
    > know of any North American carrier that has implemented R-UIM? My
    > guess is that your answer is no. My statement stands. Can you
    > prove otherwise?
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > To send an email reply send to
    > GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com


    Still waiting for an answer to the question about lost, stolen, or damaged
    phones. How long do you have to wait to get a new card and activate a new
    phone? What happens if the card doesn't work or gets damaged (and before you
    suggest they don't, read all the horror stories from users of them in
    digital cameras).
     
  5. Quick

    Quick Guest

    "Group Special Mobile" <look@signature_to.reply> wrote
    >
    > It still remains that you make it inconvenient for the end user. If
    > you as the end user make the decision at the start of your day that
    > you just need a plain old phone that doesn't do anything special all
    > you have to do with SIMs or R-UIMs is take the chip out of the phone
    > and put it in the phone that you wish to use that day and presto you
    > have service in the phone that you want to use that day.


    What you say is true. What if I *lose* my first phone and want to
    use my second one? With VZW I simply call them or do it on their
    website and my second phone is working. GSM makes this very
    inconvenient for the end user to do...

    What if I own more than one phone and they are in different
    locations? What if my SIM card is in the other phone?
    I could argue that CDMA allows me to deactivate one phone
    and activate the other phone without physically having either
    (or a card) in my possession? And this is an inconvenience
    imposed on the user by GSM that you must have the SIM
    in your possession...

    Its simply a matter of "phone identity". With GSM the identity
    is in the SIM card. With CDMA (most) the identity is permanently
    attached to the phone. SIMs do provide a bit of general purpose
    memory that is convenient but my CDMA phone has an SD card.

    There are other not-so-obvious disadvantages to SIMs. With SIMs
    the physical phone becomes much more valuable on the black market.
    Steal a GSM phone, toss the owner's SIM, and anybody with a SIM
    can use the stolen phone without detection. Steal a CDMA phone,
    when the ESN is deactivated and blacklisted the phone's value is greatly
    diminished.

    SIMs just don't seem like much of an advantage/disadvantage to me.

    -Quick
     
  6. Aboutdakota

    Aboutdakota Guest

    Quick wrote:
    > "Group Special Mobile" <look@signature_to.reply> wrote
    >
    >>It still remains that you make it inconvenient for the end user. If
    >>you as the end user make the decision at the start of your day that
    >>you just need a plain old phone that doesn't do anything special all
    >>you have to do with SIMs or R-UIMs is take the chip out of the phone
    >>and put it in the phone that you wish to use that day and presto you
    >>have service in the phone that you want to use that day.

    >
    >
    > What you say is true. What if I *lose* my first phone and want to
    > use my second one? With VZW I simply call them or do it on their
    > website and my second phone is working. GSM makes this very
    > inconvenient for the end user to do...
    >
    > What if I own more than one phone and they are in different
    > locations? What if my SIM card is in the other phone?
    > I could argue that CDMA allows me to deactivate one phone
    > and activate the other phone without physically having either
    > (or a card) in my possession? And this is an inconvenience
    > imposed on the user by GSM that you must have the SIM
    > in your possession...
    >
    > Its simply a matter of "phone identity". With GSM the identity
    > is in the SIM card. With CDMA (most) the identity is permanently
    > attached to the phone. SIMs do provide a bit of general purpose
    > memory that is convenient but my CDMA phone has an SD card.
    >
    > There are other not-so-obvious disadvantages to SIMs. With SIMs
    > the physical phone becomes much more valuable on the black market.
    > Steal a GSM phone, toss the owner's SIM, and anybody with a SIM
    > can use the stolen phone without detection. Steal a CDMA phone,
    > when the ESN is deactivated and blacklisted the phone's value is greatly
    > diminished.
    >
    > SIMs just don't seem like much of an advantage/disadvantage to me.
    >
    > -Quick


    Actually, a carrier can block the IMEI number on the GSM phone. Then no
    SIM will be able to work with it as it will be blacklisted.

    ==AD
     
  7. Aboutdakota

    Aboutdakota Guest

    Steven J Sobol wrote:
    > In alt.cellular Aboutdakota <aboutdakota@hot-mail.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Yeah, but with GSM, *YOU* have the freedom of switching phones when and
    >>where you want, allowing your phonebook to follow, without the prior
    >>notification of your wireless provider.

    >
    >
    > True.
    >
    > Regarding VZW not allowing you to do online ESN swaps, I figure either:
    >
    > a) you're in an area recently acquired by VZW that isn't integrated fully yet
    >
    > or
    >
    > b) VZW doesn't consider your home area important enough to treat you guys
    > like they treat most of the country. (Judging from some of your other posts,
    > I'd say this is very likely!)
    >
    >


    I'll take b) for an answer. We were a Commnet area, then acquired by
    Airtouch, and which merged with Verizon...

    Their network is not good in this part of the country. If I had to
    compare the local VZW network to AT&T nationally...i'd have to vote for
    AT&T.

    ==AD
     
  8. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:bqgf81$1r0akt$1@ID-190045.news.uni-berlin.de...
    >
    > "Group Special Mobile" <look@signature_to.reply> wrote in message
    > news:eek:hdnsvoo418l3jkn62dh70edfe9nmhdi89@4ax.com...
    > > On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:37:23 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    > > <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
    > >
    > > >In alt.cellular Shawn <sbainer@nospamcolumbus.rr.com> wrote:
    > > >
    > > >> It sure is an advantage. You can swap your sim anytime you want

    > without the
    > > >> carrier ever knowing you did it. That' a huge advatage if your

    > "provider"
    > > >> is going to charge you a fee to do an esn change.
    > > >
    > > >IF.
    > > >
    > > >It STILL is not a CDMA-specific issue. Kindly refrain from painting it

    as
    > > >a CDMA-specific issue. Thanks :)
    > > >
    > > >And VZW doesn't charge for online ESN changes or ESN changes done over

    > the
    > > >phone, as far as I recall - just for changes done in-store.

    > >
    > > It still remains that you make it inconvenient for the end user. If
    > > you as the end user make the decision at the start of your day that
    > > you just need a plain old phone that doesn't do anything special all
    > > you have to do with SIMs or R-UIMs is take the chip out of the phone
    > > and put it in the phone that you wish to use that day and presto you
    > > have service in the phone that you want to use that day. Same holds
    > > true if you need a phone that does more such as a PDA type phone a la
    > > Treo or RIM Blackberry. I am laying that one on the CDMA camp as they
    > > came late into the game with smart card technology. If CDMA was so up
    > > there technologically why wasn't R-UIM part of the original CDMA spec
    > > when SIM technology was part of the GSM spec from the outset. CDMA
    > > may have some technically superior aspects to GSM, but some things
    > > just are *not* as good such as the flexibility GSM gives with SIM
    > > technology.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > > To send an email reply send to
    > > GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com

    >
    > A question for you, if your phone is lost or stolen, or in for repair, how
    > do you activate a new handset? (must happen or they wouldn't insure em)


    No, actually, there's generally no activation required - most handsets are
    unlocked. What is happening now is the operators are blocking the handset
    internal identification number (IMSI???) at the HLR so that if a phone is
    lost/stolen the hardware is locked out of the domestic networks.

    That didn't use to be the case so there was a "healthy" market in stolen
    handsets.
     
  9. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Aboutdakota" <aboutdakota@hot-mail.com> wrote in message
    news:3FCC376D.5010808@hot-mail.com...
    >
    >
    > Quick wrote:
    > > "Group Special Mobile" <look@signature_to.reply> wrote
    > >
    > >>It still remains that you make it inconvenient for the end user. If
    > >>you as the end user make the decision at the start of your day that
    > >>you just need a plain old phone that doesn't do anything special all
    > >>you have to do with SIMs or R-UIMs is take the chip out of the phone
    > >>and put it in the phone that you wish to use that day and presto you
    > >>have service in the phone that you want to use that day.

    > >
    > >
    > > What you say is true. What if I *lose* my first phone and want to
    > > use my second one? With VZW I simply call them or do it on their
    > > website and my second phone is working. GSM makes this very
    > > inconvenient for the end user to do...
    > >
    > > What if I own more than one phone and they are in different
    > > locations? What if my SIM card is in the other phone?
    > > I could argue that CDMA allows me to deactivate one phone
    > > and activate the other phone without physically having either
    > > (or a card) in my possession? And this is an inconvenience
    > > imposed on the user by GSM that you must have the SIM
    > > in your possession...
    > >
    > > Its simply a matter of "phone identity". With GSM the identity
    > > is in the SIM card. With CDMA (most) the identity is permanently
    > > attached to the phone. SIMs do provide a bit of general purpose
    > > memory that is convenient but my CDMA phone has an SD card.
    > >
    > > There are other not-so-obvious disadvantages to SIMs. With SIMs
    > > the physical phone becomes much more valuable on the black market.
    > > Steal a GSM phone, toss the owner's SIM, and anybody with a SIM
    > > can use the stolen phone without detection. Steal a CDMA phone,
    > > when the ESN is deactivated and blacklisted the phone's value is greatly
    > > diminished.
    > >
    > > SIMs just don't seem like much of an advantage/disadvantage to me.
    > >
    > > -Quick

    >
    > Actually, a carrier can block the IMEI number on the GSM phone.


    That's the acronym I was trying to think of, thanks!

    Then no
    > SIM will be able to work with it as it will be blacklisted.


    You could send the phone to a country where the Operators are not sharing
    codes of course, but that's a lot of work.
     
  10. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote in message
    news:1070323889.308582@sj-nntpcache-3...
    >
    > "Group Special Mobile" <look@signature_to.reply> wrote
    > >
    > > It still remains that you make it inconvenient for the end user. If
    > > you as the end user make the decision at the start of your day that
    > > you just need a plain old phone that doesn't do anything special all
    > > you have to do with SIMs or R-UIMs is take the chip out of the phone
    > > and put it in the phone that you wish to use that day and presto you
    > > have service in the phone that you want to use that day.

    >
    > What you say is true. What if I *lose* my first phone and want to
    > use my second one? With VZW I simply call them or do it on their
    > website and my second phone is working. GSM makes this very
    > inconvenient for the end user to do...


    It depends. What I've done is set up call redirect on my existing SIM and
    use a £5.99 PAYG SIM in the second phone for a couple of days until the
    replacement SIM card arrives in the post.

    > What if I own more than one phone and they are in different
    > locations? What if my SIM card is in the other phone?


    Why would you use a SIM like that? Either have a core number which you
    redirect to a bank of PAYG or low use/cost SIM's or carry the SIM and use
    handsets when you like.

    > I could argue that CDMA allows me to deactivate one phone
    > and activate the other phone without physically having either
    > (or a card) in my possession? And this is an inconvenience
    > imposed on the user by GSM that you must have the SIM
    > in your possession...
    >
    > Its simply a matter of "phone identity". With GSM the identity
    > is in the SIM card. With CDMA (most) the identity is permanently
    > attached to the phone. SIMs do provide a bit of general purpose
    > memory that is convenient but my CDMA phone has an SD card.
    >
    > There are other not-so-obvious disadvantages to SIMs. With SIMs
    > the physical phone becomes much more valuable on the black market.
    > Steal a GSM phone, toss the owner's SIM, and anybody with a SIM
    > can use the stolen phone without detection. Steal a CDMA phone,
    > when the ESN is deactivated and blacklisted the phone's value is greatly
    > diminished.


    Not anymore, that hole was blocked some time ago.

    > SIMs just don't seem like much of an advantage/disadvantage to me.


    They do make life a lot easier, I'd say SIM's and more intelligent billing
    have been why GSM suceeded.
     
  11. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "CharlesH" <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote in message
    news:bqgdu301ei6@enews1.newsguy.com...
    > In article <jsdnsv4hud2rs2lm390ls39egsl0h7s0qt@4ax.com>,
    > Group Special Mobile <look@signature_for_reply_instructions> wrote:
    > >It doesn't take a rocket scientist to take a chip out of one phone and
    > >put it in another.
    > >
    > >I'm betting that if you went into a GSM carrier's store or a dealer
    > >and asked the dealer to do it for you they would and not think a thing
    > >about it. Why you would is another matter.

    >
    > Just curious... On phones today you have downloaded ringtones,
    > screensavers, and applications, along with voice notes. Do these things
    > fit on a GSM SIM card, or does the SIM card have only the ID and
    > phonebook info?


    Depends on the SIM card and the phone. Voice notes, no, I'd say. Ring
    Tones, probably yes as SIM cards also store SMS messages.

    Somewhere I recall reading about a case where a person
    > could only fit part of their phonebook on the SIM, and had to put the
    > rest in the phone.


    Depends on the SIM. Modern phone books are getting quite large.
     
  12. Dave

    Dave Guest

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    "Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:bqgfj8$21nda9$1@ID-190045.news.uni-berlin.de...


    > Still waiting for an answer to the question about lost, stolen, or damaged
    > phones. How long do you have to wait to get a new card and activate a new
    > phone?


    You can get any new phone. I've got 3 old ones at home I can use in an
    emergency and some emergency Pay-As-You-Go SIM cards. Normally my operator
    says its 2 working days to get a new SIM card in the post.

    What happens if the card doesn't work or gets damaged (and before you
    > suggest they don't, read all the horror stories from users of them in
    > digital cameras).


    SIM and SD cards are not the same.

    However, I must admit, I don't know anybody who has ever had a SIM card
    problem. I've seen phones submerged in liquid, microwaved (don't ask) and
    the SIM still works fine.
     
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    On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:33:11 -0800, "Peter Pan"
    <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote:

    >
    >"Group Special Mobile" <look@signature_to.reply> wrote in message
    >news:nbdnsvk14qumgkkomkk0rgeo56bptg0g9u@4ax.com...
    >> On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:55:20 -0600, Steven J Sobol
    >> <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
    >>
    >> >In alt.cellular Group Special Mobile <look@signature_to.reply> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> Another "advantage" of CDMA! GSM customers get the equivalent for $0!
    >> >
    >> >You seriously must be joking.
    >> >
    >> >This is not an "advantage" of GSM - it's the policy of individual

    >carriers
    >> >and has nothing to do with CDMA itself.

    >>
    >> If that's the case than why did GSM have SIMs from the outset and CDMA
    >> is only *starting* to use R-UIM technology! Is there some special
    >> reason that CDMA chose to be less convenient for the end user? Do you
    >> know of any North American carrier that has implemented R-UIM? My
    >> guess is that your answer is no. My statement stands. Can you
    >> prove otherwise?
    >>
    >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >> To send an email reply send to
    >> GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com

    >
    >Still waiting for an answer to the question about lost, stolen, or damaged
    >phones. How long do you have to wait to get a new card and activate a new
    >phone? What happens if the card doesn't work or gets damaged (and before you
    >suggest they don't, read all the horror stories from users of them in
    >digital cameras).


    The only way a card could get damaged is if you were to constantly
    install and uninstall the card.

    How long do you have to wait to get a new card? As long as it takes
    you to go to a dealer or company store to get one. How long does it
    take to activate a new card? About five minutes.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    To send an email reply send to
    GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com
     
  14. On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:27:12 -0800, "Peter Pan"
    <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote:

    >A question for you, if your phone is lost or stolen, or in for repair, how
    >do you activate a new handset? (must happen or they wouldn't insure em)


    You do *not* activate GSM handsets. You activate the SIM card.

    GSM handsets have an IMEI (International Mobile Equipment Identifier)
    which is the equivalent of an ESN in CDMA/TDMA handsets.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    To send an email reply send to
    GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com
     
  15. On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:09:19 -0800, "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com>
    wrote:

    >What you say is true. What if I *lose* my first phone and want to
    >use my second one? With VZW I simply call them or do it on their
    >website and my second phone is working. GSM makes this very
    >inconvenient for the end user to do...


    Well, with GSM you can't simply call in. You have to have a new SIM
    so you'll have to get one from the carrier by some means either in
    person or through the mails.

    >What if I own more than one phone and they are in different
    >locations? What if my SIM card is in the other phone?


    You can only use one phone at a time with an account whether it's GSM,
    TDMA or CDMA. With GSM you decide the phone you want to use at the
    moment and put the SIM in that phone. Put the card in the phone and
    power up and you're done. With non card technology whether it's SIMs
    or R-UIMs you have to have a phone reprogrammed either OTA or taking
    it in to a dealer.

    >I could argue that CDMA allows me to deactivate one phone
    >and activate the other phone without physically having either
    >(or a card) in my possession? And this is an inconvenience
    >imposed on the user by GSM that you must have the SIM
    >in your possession...


    Yes, but you are stuck with one phone or the other and can't readily
    change between phones easily. I can take the card from one phone and
    put it in another phone and in less than a minute I'm in business with
    the phone of choice. Can you do this with your phone that you have to
    program? Can you transfer your phone book easily between another
    phone? With GSM I can. All phone book information is on the SIM.

    >Its simply a matter of "phone identity". With GSM the identity
    >is in the SIM card. With CDMA (most) the identity is permanently
    >attached to the phone. SIMs do provide a bit of general purpose
    >memory that is convenient but my CDMA phone has an SD card.


    Some GSM phones also have SD cards.

    >There are other not-so-obvious disadvantages to SIMs. With SIMs
    >the physical phone becomes much more valuable on the black market.
    >Steal a GSM phone, toss the owner's SIM, and anybody with a SIM
    >can use the stolen phone without detection.


    Not so. If the phone owner changes the security code at least on the
    newer phones the only way you can use the phone is to reflash the
    phone with a different IMEI. There's no advantage of CDMA or TDMA
    phones as they can be reflashed and whatever the ESN was they can
    replace it with another ESN number. GSM operators also have
    blacklists.

    >Steal a CDMA phone,
    >when the ESN is deactivated and blacklisted the phone's value is greatly
    >diminished.
    >
    >SIMs just don't seem like much of an advantage/disadvantage to me.


    They are no advantage at all to you if you plan on using the same
    handset all the time or if you do decide to use another handset any
    phone book information on your old phone will stay with that phone.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    To send an email reply send to
    GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com
     
  16. On 1 Dec 2003 22:04:51 GMT, hoch@exemplary.invalid (CharlesH) wrote:

    >Just curious... On phones today you have downloaded ringtones,
    >screensavers, and applications, along with voice notes. Do these things
    >fit on a GSM SIM card, or does the SIM card have only the ID and
    >phonebook info? Somewhere I recall reading about a case where a person
    >could only fit part of their phonebook on the SIM, and had to put the
    >rest in the phone.


    Customizations to the phone are just that to the phone. The SIM only
    contains information to identify your account, hold phone book entries
    and SMS messages.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    To send an email reply send to
    GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com
     
  17. CharlesH

    CharlesH Guest

    In article <ud8psvckhs0uc59e0q4i0rrufg2lv5rvri@4ax.com>,
    Group Special Mobile <look@signature_for_reply_instructions> wrote:
    >Not so. If the phone owner changes the security code at least on the
    >newer phones the only way you can use the phone is to reflash the
    >phone with a different IMEI. There's no advantage of CDMA or TDMA
    >phones as they can be reflashed and whatever the ESN was they can
    >replace it with another ESN number. GSM operators also have
    >blacklists.


    In the U.S, anyway, the FCC has for quite a few years said that the ESN
    has to be in read-only tamper-resistent hardware. I'm not saying that it
    cannot be bypassed, but I think the task is a lot more difficult than it
    is for GSM phones, where the IMEI can just be rewritten with a software
    flash.
     
  18. Isaiah Beard

    Isaiah Beard Guest

    Patrick Bosley wrote:

    > In article <3FCA8068.9040301@hot-mail.com>,
    > Aboutdakota <aboutdakota@hot-mail.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>In some markets, it costs $11.25 for an ESN change, too.

    >
    >
    > SprintPCS often calls an ESN change an Activation and charges $36.
    >


    I've found that for the most part, Sprint doesn't charge this fee for
    people upgrading their handsets even though it's listed as a possible
    charge. At least, they haven't for me or anyone I know on Sprint.

    It wcould well be possible that the $11.25 charge from VZW may also be
    something could be easily waived at the discretion of the rep who's
    doing it for you, if you ask nicely, but I could be wrong.


    --
    E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
     
  19. Isaiah Beard

    Isaiah Beard Guest

    Aboutdakota wrote:

    >
    >
    > Steven J Sobol wrote:
    >


    >
    > Yeah, but with GSM, *YOU* have the freedom of switching phones when and
    > where you want, allowing your phonebook to follow, without the prior
    > notification of your wireless provider.


    Not always true. It's very easy for a GSM carrier to lock the SIM to a
    specific handset if they so please.




    --
    E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
     
  20. Isaiah Beard

    Isaiah Beard Guest

    Doc wrote:

    > "AL" <al145 @ delete.hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:H4vyb.8743$n4.651@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
    >


    >
    > I'm both a subscriber and a stockholder-- so I'm all for more profit! That's
    > why they're in business you know;-)
    >
    > But from your post, I'd say you're probably some kind of naive and
    > unsophisticated socialist with no economic understanding who sees profit as
    > a bad thing...


    Typical post from someone who doesn't see the circular logic in getting
    higher dividends on your stocks from profit, only to have to put that
    money back in paying the higher bills you get each month. :)


    --
    E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
     

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