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VZW racks up more charges = profit

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by AL, Nov 30, 2003.

  1. Carl.

    Carl. Guest

    "Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message
    news:3fcce830$1@rutgers.edu...
    > Aboutdakota wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > Steven J Sobol wrote:
    > >

    >
    > >
    > > Yeah, but with GSM, *YOU* have the freedom of switching phones when and
    > > where you want, allowing your phonebook to follow, without the prior
    > > notification of your wireless provider.

    >
    > Not always true. It's very easy for a GSM carrier to lock the SIM to a
    > specific handset if they so please.


    Is this by placing the IMEI info in the SIM somewhere, or by storing the
    IMEI in the system to verify upon registering?


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    › See More: VZW racks up more charges = profit
  2. In alt.cellular Isaiah Beard <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote:

    > Not always true. It's very easy for a GSM carrier to lock the SIM to a
    > specific handset if they so please.


    That's not a GSM-specific issue, it's a carrier issue.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  3. On 2 Dec 2003 18:48:17 GMT, hoch@exemplary.invalid (CharlesH) wrote:

    >In the U.S, anyway, the FCC has for quite a few years said that the ESN
    >has to be in read-only tamper-resistent hardware. I'm not saying that it
    >cannot be bypassed, but I think the task is a lot more difficult than it
    >is for GSM phones, where the IMEI can just be rewritten with a software
    >flash.


    And you don't think that someone can't just flash a new ESN into a
    phone? It's illegal just as it is to tamper with the IMEI. That
    argument is a straw man.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    To send an email reply send to
    GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com
  4. On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:29:51 -0500, Isaiah Beard
    <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote:

    >Aboutdakota wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Steven J Sobol wrote:
    >>

    >
    >>
    >> Yeah, but with GSM, *YOU* have the freedom of switching phones when and
    >> where you want, allowing your phonebook to follow, without the prior
    >> notification of your wireless provider.

    >
    >Not always true. It's very easy for a GSM carrier to lock the SIM to a
    >specific handset if they so please.


    Sure it is, but there are always ways to defeat the SP lock either
    through actual configuration of the handset or through calculated
    codes.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    To send an email reply send to
    GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com
  5. CharlesH

    CharlesH Guest

    In article <4reqsv459eh8p37gi8vi6ikv79ls8dtls7@4ax.com>,
    Group Special Mobile <look@signature_for_reply_instructions> wrote:
    >On 2 Dec 2003 18:48:17 GMT, hoch@exemplary.invalid (CharlesH) wrote:
    >
    >>In the U.S, anyway, the FCC has for quite a few years said that the ESN
    >>has to be in read-only tamper-resistent hardware. I'm not saying that it
    >>cannot be bypassed, but I think the task is a lot more difficult than it
    >>is for GSM phones, where the IMEI can just be rewritten with a software
    >>flash.

    >
    >And you don't think that someone can't just flash a new ESN into a
    >phone? It's illegal just as it is to tamper with the IMEI. That
    >argument is a straw man.


    My point is that the FCC requirement is for physically read-only
    memory for the ESN, separate from the flashable memory for the software.
    Not something that can be re-written. It's not a matter of finding the
    right cheat codes; the memory hardware for the ESN is simply incapable
    of being rewritten. And the chip is installed in such a way
    to make it very difficult to access or replace without destroying
    everything around it.

    My "out" refers to the possibility of, for example, flashing the phone
    with software doctored to ignore the hardware ESN.
  6. DevilsPGD

    DevilsPGD Guest

    In message <<ud8psvckhs0uc59e0q4i0rrufg2lv5rvri@4ax.com>> Group Special
    Mobile <look@signature_to.reply> did ramble:

    >>What you say is true. What if I *lose* my first phone and want to
    >>use my second one? With VZW I simply call them or do it on their
    >>website and my second phone is working. GSM makes this very
    >>inconvenient for the end user to do...

    >
    >Well, with GSM you can't simply call in. You have to have a new SIM
    >so you'll have to get one from the carrier by some means either in
    >person or through the mails.


    With CDMA, you can't simply call in, you have to have a new PHONE so
    you'll have to get one from the carrier by some means either in person
    or through the mails.

    If you have a spare phone kicking around (I have 3) why not get a spare
    SIM (I have 2) too, just in case. You're no worse off having a SIM, and
    it might even work out to your benefit.

    --
    HTML email should be treated in the same manner as sexual acts between
    consenting adults. Only done in private places where willing parties,
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  7. Steve Crow

    Steve Crow Guest

    First, that would be a store policy. Not the first time I've seen it.

    Second, what's wrong with a company wanting to make some profit? That is,
    after all, why the overwhelming majority of businesses exist. Sorry if
    they didn't teach you that in school.

    Steve




    On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, AL wrote:

    > I was in my local Verizon store today, in Louisville, and all over the store
    > is a new card telling of a $11.25 dollar charge for phone number changes and
    > anything related. It used to be free, and I don't know if it applies to
    > on-line switches, but that coupled with the number portability fees means
    > VZW is going for more profit. As is they are already pushing the higher
    > priced plans both in AC and Local Digital hoping for higher ARPU. I think
    > that's a mistake as it will cause me to switch to a competitor. I guess it's
    > time to see if the grass really is greener.
    >
    > AL
    >
    >
    >



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  8. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "DevilsPGD" <lookatmeNOSPAM@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
    news:hkkqsv0hn15mpel6s0g7uc78v49p3okude@4ax.com...
    > In message <<ud8psvckhs0uc59e0q4i0rrufg2lv5rvri@4ax.com>> Group Special
    > Mobile <look@signature_to.reply> did ramble:
    >
    > >>What you say is true. What if I *lose* my first phone and want to
    > >>use my second one? With VZW I simply call them or do it on their
    > >>website and my second phone is working. GSM makes this very
    > >>inconvenient for the end user to do...

    > >
    > >Well, with GSM you can't simply call in. You have to have a new SIM
    > >so you'll have to get one from the carrier by some means either in
    > >person or through the mails.

    >
    > With CDMA, you can't simply call in, you have to have a new PHONE so
    > you'll have to get one from the carrier by some means either in person
    > or through the mails.
    >
    > If you have a spare phone kicking around (I have 3) why not get a spare
    > SIM (I have 2) too, just in case. You're no worse off having a SIM, and
    > it might even work out to your benefit.


    It should be mentioned that service stations, chemists and all sorts of
    weird shops sell pay as you go SIM cards.
  9. Patrick Bosley wrote:

    > SprintPCS often calls an ESN change an Activation and charges $36.
    >
    > Their Terms and Conditions read thusly:
    >
    > "Phone Activation Fee. You may be required to pay a non-refundable
    > phone activation fee when you activate a new Number, have us switch a
    > Number to a different phone, have your current Number changed, we
    > activate a different phone on your existing account or your Service
    > Plan says so. "


    Get lost Phillip aka Steven .... yes, we know it is you. This has nothing
    to do with Sprint PCS ... NOTHING.

    Tom Veldhouse
  10. In article <3fcf703b$0$41288$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>,
    "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> apologizing for SprintPCS:
    > Patrick Bosley wrote:
    >
    > > SprintPCS often calls an ESN change an Activation and charges $36.
    > >
    > > Their Terms and Conditions read thusly:
    > >
    > > "Phone Activation Fee. You may be required to pay a non-refundable
    > > phone activation fee when you activate a new Number, have us switch a
    > > Number to a different phone, have your current Number changed, we
    > > activate a different phone on your existing account or your Service
    > > Plan says so. "

    >
    > Get lost This has nothing
    > to do with Sprint PCS ... NOTHING.


    SprintPCS charging Activation charge sin places where other carriers
    charge nothing, and charging an Activation fee even if you return your
    phone during your "Free Trial Period" has everything to do with why
    SprintPCS is a WLNP loser.
  11. Patrick Bosley wrote:
    >
    > SprintPCS charging Activation charge sin places where other carriers
    > charge nothing, and charging an Activation fee even if you return your
    > phone during your "Free Trial Period" has everything to do with why
    > SprintPCS is a WLNP loser.


    You are again exposed as the Sprint PCS troll that you are. So why are you
    using the name Patrick Bosley now? How many names is that? Over 35 I
    think.

    Tom Veldhouse
  12. James Tullin

    James Tullin Guest


    > Patrick Bosley wrote:
    > >
    > > SprintPCS charging Activation charge sin places where other carriers
    > > charge nothing, and charging an Activation fee even if you return your
    > > phone during your "Free Trial Period" has everything to do with why
    > > SprintPCS is a WLNP loser.

    >


    SprintPCS is sure to be the WLNP loser. Wonder what Veldhouse's
    financial stake in Sprint is that he gets upset by the simple posting of
    the above fact.
  13. James Tullin wrote:
    >> Patrick Bosley wrote:
    >>>
    >>> SprintPCS charging Activation charge sin places where other carriers
    >>> charge nothing, and charging an Activation fee even if you return
    >>> your phone during your "Free Trial Period" has everything to do
    >>> with why SprintPCS is a WLNP loser.

    >>

    >
    > SprintPCS is sure to be the WLNP loser. Wonder what Veldhouse's
    > financial stake in Sprint is that he gets upset by the simple posting
    > of the above fact.


    A new name already Patrick Bosley, I mean Phillip ... or Steven.

    My only financial stake in Sprint PCS is my two phones.

    Tom Veldhouse
  14. In alt.cellular Patrick Bosley <pBosley@msn.com> wrote:

    >> Get lost This has nothing
    >> to do with Sprint PCS ... NOTHING.

    >
    > SprintPCS charging Activation charge sin places where other carriers
    > charge nothing, and charging an Activation fee even if you return your
    > phone during your "Free Trial Period" has everything to do with why
    > SprintPCS is a WLNP loser.


    Heh. Posting from an Earthlink DSL account. I suspected you were Phil, but
    didn't want to say anything because you started out not quite sounding like
    him.

    And now you're forging MSN addresses. What a loser.


    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  15. In alt.cellular James Tullin <jtullin23@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > SprintPCS is sure to be the WLNP loser. Wonder what Veldhouse's
    > financial stake in Sprint is that he gets upset by the simple posting of
    > the above fact.


    Wow... another post, another morph, but still posting from Mindspring/
    Earthlink. I'm not impressed.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net
  16. James Tullin

    James Tullin Guest

    In article <3fcf94d6$0$41298$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>,
    "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > My only financial stake in Sprint PCS is my two phones.
    >
    > Tom Veldhouse


    and a biding need to apologize for SprintPCS whenever anyone posts
    anything you deem as negative about SprintPCS. And thats real easy to
    do, as SprintPCS gets lots of bad press.
  17. Isaiah Beard

    Isaiah Beard Guest

    Aboutdakota wrote:

    >> There are other not-so-obvious disadvantages to SIMs. With SIMs
    >> the physical phone becomes much more valuable on the black market.
    >> Steal a GSM phone, toss the owner's SIM, and anybody with a SIM
    >> can use the stolen phone without detection. Steal a CDMA phone,
    >> when the ESN is deactivated and blacklisted the phone's value is greatly
    >> diminished.
    >>
    >> SIMs just don't seem like much of an advantage/disadvantage to me.
    >>
    >> -Quick

    >
    >
    > Actually, a carrier can block the IMEI number on the GSM phone.


    ...IF the carrier knows the IMEI because you bought the phone from them.
    If you bought it elsewhere and never wrote down the IMEI, then the
    carrier can do nothing for you.

    And if the carrier requires that you register your IMEI with them, OR
    subsidy lock their handsets, then that would seem to negate the
    convenience of a SIM, no?

    Further, there's still that SIM card in that stolen phone. You will
    need to visit a store to get a new SIM, or have them ship it to you,
    before you can use any replacement phone you may have.




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    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
  18. Isaiah Beard

    Isaiah Beard Guest

    Group Special Mobile wrote:


    >>Still waiting for an answer to the question about lost, stolen, or damaged
    >>phones. How long do you have to wait to get a new card and activate a new
    >>phone? What happens if the card doesn't work or gets damaged (and before you
    >>suggest they don't, read all the horror stories from users of them in
    >>digital cameras).

    >
    >
    > The only way a card could get damaged is if you were to constantly
    > install and uninstall the card.


    ....and if you're switching between handsets frequently, as you seem to
    want to do, then that's EXACTLY what you're doing: constantly removing
    and reinserting the card.

    > How long do you have to wait to get a new card? As long as it takes
    > you to go to a dealer or company store to get one.


    And if I'm in a remote area, or worse, roaming?

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  19. Isaiah Beard

    Isaiah Beard Guest

    Group Special Mobile wrote:

    \
    >>What you say is true. What if I *lose* my first phone and want to
    >>use my second one? With VZW I simply call them or do it on their
    >>website and my second phone is working. GSM makes this very
    >>inconvenient for the end user to do...

    >
    >
    > Well, with GSM you can't simply call in. You have to have a new SIM
    > so you'll have to get one from the carrier by some means either in
    > person or through the mails.


    So in other words, if my GSM phone were stolen, it would actually be
    MORE incovenient for me than if I lost my CDMA phone. With GSM, if my
    handset witht he SIM in it were stolen and I had another handset ready
    to reaplce it, I'd still need to visit a store or contact the carrier to
    ship me a new SIM (which will take a day or three). In the same
    scenario with CDMA, a quick call or log into the company website puts me
    back in business in minutes.

    Now, before you get defensive, I'm not going into whether CDMA or GSM is
    better. However, I am pointing out that GSM's SIM's aren't always an
    advantage. There are cases where SIMs can be quite inconvenient, just
    are instances where you might find CDMA to be inconvenient.

    Each standard has their strengths and weaknesses. But, that is the
    great advantage of competition: you can evaluate the pros and cons of
    each system and choose which one you prefer. Me, I've been absentminded
    and lost more than my share of handsets, and I've also had phones stolen
    by not-too-bright thieves. Thanks to CDMA I was back online in five
    minutes each time, without ever having to visit a store or wait for the
    mail to deliver my new SIM. So I will stick with CDMA, and see ittle
    benefit in GSM. But, YMMV.

    >>What if I own more than one phone and they are in different
    >>locations? What if my SIM card is in the other phone?

    >


    > You can only use one phone at a time with an account whether it's GSM,
    > TDMA or CDMA. With GSM you decide the phone you want to use at the
    > moment and put the SIM in that phone.


    You didn't answer his question. Let's say I had to take a last minute
    business trip and was in a hurry. I have two GSM handsets, one of which
    has my SIM. In my rush, I don't bother to check which is which and
    throw one in my coat pocket and head to the airport.

    At my destination, I turn on my handset to find that it will not work
    because there's no SIM. And here is the point where I am SOL.

    If we go back to the same scenario with two CDMA handsets, all I would
    need to do is call my wireless provider and have them do an ESN swap.

    this is yet another instance where a SIM user is at a disadvantange.

    --
    E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
  20. "James Tullin" <jtullin23@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:jtullin23-515F53.17562304122003@news02.west.earthlink.net...
    > In article <3fcf94d6$0$41298$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>,
    > "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    > > My only financial stake in Sprint PCS is my two phones.
    > >
    > > Tom Veldhouse

    >
    > and a biding need to apologize for SprintPCS whenever anyone posts
    > anything you deem as negative about SprintPCS. And thats real easy to
    > do, as SprintPCS gets lots of bad press.


    I have posted in this very group to the contrary. I had quite a problem
    with Sprint not all that long ago ... but you already knew that and just
    choose to ignore it. So, why do you change your name all the time again?
    Why do you have conversations with yourself to support your various identies
    statements? Wait, I think I answered the last question.

    Tom Veldhouse

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