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VZW racks up more charges = profit

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by AL, Nov 30, 2003.

  1. "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
    news:7LWdnaDhapG9OlKiRVn-gQ@lmi.net...

    > Heh. Posting from an Earthlink DSL account. I suspected you were Phil, but
    > didn't want to say anything because you started out not quite sounding

    like
    > him.
    >
    > And now you're forging MSN addresses. What a loser.
    >


    I think he lost access to AOL, but who can know for sure.

    Tom Veldhouse



    › See More: VZW racks up more charges = profit
  2. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message
    news:3fd0b090@rutgers.edu...
    > Group Special Mobile wrote:
    >
    > \
    > >>What you say is true. What if I *lose* my first phone and want to
    > >>use my second one? With VZW I simply call them or do it on their
    > >>website and my second phone is working. GSM makes this very
    > >>inconvenient for the end user to do...

    > >
    > >
    > > Well, with GSM you can't simply call in. You have to have a new SIM
    > > so you'll have to get one from the carrier by some means either in
    > > person or through the mails.

    >
    > So in other words, if my GSM phone were stolen, it would actually be
    > MORE incovenient for me than if I lost my CDMA phone. With GSM, if my
    > handset witht he SIM in it were stolen and I had another handset ready
    > to reaplce it, I'd still need to visit a store or contact the carrier to
    > ship me a new SIM (which will take a day or three). In the same
    > scenario with CDMA, a quick call or log into the company website puts me
    > back in business in minutes.


    But in the GSM world you can get a PAYG SIM in minutes from practically
    anywhere and wait for a couple of days for your new one to arrive.

    > Now, before you get defensive, I'm not going into whether CDMA or GSM is
    > better. However, I am pointing out that GSM's SIM's aren't always an
    > advantage. There are cases where SIMs can be quite inconvenient, just
    > are instances where you might find CDMA to be inconvenient.
    >
    > Each standard has their strengths and weaknesses. But, that is the
    > great advantage of competition: you can evaluate the pros and cons of
    > each system and choose which one you prefer. Me, I've been absentminded
    > and lost more than my share of handsets, and I've also had phones stolen
    > by not-too-bright thieves. Thanks to CDMA I was back online in five
    > minutes each time, without ever having to visit a store or wait for the
    > mail to deliver my new SIM. So I will stick with CDMA, and see ittle
    > benefit in GSM. But, YMMV.


    I've 3 handsets now and a couple of PAYG SIMs - one call to my voice mail to
    redirect calls and I'm back in business.

    > >>What if I own more than one phone and they are in different
    > >>locations? What if my SIM card is in the other phone?

    > >

    >
    > > You can only use one phone at a time with an account whether it's GSM,
    > > TDMA or CDMA. With GSM you decide the phone you want to use at the
    > > moment and put the SIM in that phone.

    >
    > You didn't answer his question. Let's say I had to take a last minute
    > business trip and was in a hurry. I have two GSM handsets, one of which
    > has my SIM. In my rush, I don't bother to check which is which and
    > throw one in my coat pocket and head to the airport.
    >
    > At my destination, I turn on my handset to find that it will not work
    > because there's no SIM. And here is the point where I am SOL.


    If you're in the UK, go to the nearest Newsagent or phone shop (dozens in
    any town or at any airport) and buy a PAYG SIM, call your voice mail and set
    up a redirect.

    > If we go back to the same scenario with two CDMA handsets, all I would
    > need to do is call my wireless provider and have them do an ESN swap.
    >
    > this is yet another instance where a SIM user is at a disadvantange.


    Not really.h
  3. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message
    news:3fd0ad63$1@rutgers.edu...
    > Group Special Mobile wrote:
    >
    >
    > >>Still waiting for an answer to the question about lost, stolen, or

    damaged
    > >>phones. How long do you have to wait to get a new card and activate a

    new
    > >>phone? What happens if the card doesn't work or gets damaged (and before

    you
    > >>suggest they don't, read all the horror stories from users of them in
    > >>digital cameras).

    > >
    > >
    > > The only way a card could get damaged is if you were to constantly
    > > install and uninstall the card.

    >
    > ...and if you're switching between handsets frequently, as you seem to
    > want to do, then that's EXACTLY what you're doing: constantly removing
    > and reinserting the card.


    Where I used to work we'd test phones and be taking SIM's in and out all the
    time. We never had a SIM problem.

    > > How long do you have to wait to get a new card? As long as it takes
    > > you to go to a dealer or company store to get one.

    >
    > And if I'm in a remote area, or worse, roaming?


    Buy a PAYG.

    If you're in a remote area life is more complicated.
  4. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message
    news:3fd0aca2$1@rutgers.edu...
    > Aboutdakota wrote:
    >
    > >> There are other not-so-obvious disadvantages to SIMs. With SIMs
    > >> the physical phone becomes much more valuable on the black market.
    > >> Steal a GSM phone, toss the owner's SIM, and anybody with a SIM
    > >> can use the stolen phone without detection. Steal a CDMA phone,
    > >> when the ESN is deactivated and blacklisted the phone's value is

    greatly
    > >> diminished.
    > >>
    > >> SIMs just don't seem like much of an advantage/disadvantage to me.
    > >>
    > >> -Quick

    > >
    > >
    > > Actually, a carrier can block the IMEI number on the GSM phone.

    >
    > ..IF the carrier knows the IMEI because you bought the phone from them.
    > If you bought it elsewhere and never wrote down the IMEI, then the
    > carrier can do nothing for you.


    Then, with respect, that is your own fault.

    Very few people in the GSM world pay list price for a phone so the Operator
    will have the IMEI.

    > And if the carrier requires that you register your IMEI with them, OR
    > subsidy lock their handsets, then that would seem to negate the
    > convenience of a SIM, no?


    They'll have the IMEI logged on the HLR. Its rare for anybody other than
    Orange to subsidy lock handsets to a SIM. O2 certainly don't.

    > Further, there's still that SIM card in that stolen phone. You will
    > need to visit a store to get a new SIM, or have them ship it to you,
    > before you can use any replacement phone you may have.


    Always have a PAYG SIM in your luggage. Sensible if you are travelling
    anyway.
  5. DevilsPGD

    DevilsPGD Guest

    In message <<3fd0b090@rutgers.edu>> Isaiah Beard
    <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> did ramble:

    >So in other words, if my GSM phone were stolen, it would actually be
    >MORE incovenient for me than if I lost my CDMA phone. With GSM, if my
    >handset witht he SIM in it were stolen and I had another handset ready
    >to reaplce it, I'd still need to visit a store or contact the carrier to
    >ship me a new SIM (which will take a day or three). In the same
    >scenario with CDMA, a quick call or log into the company website puts me
    >back in business in minutes.


    If you have another handset ready, why not have another SIM ready too?

    --
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  6. Quick

    Quick Guest

    "DevilsPGD" <lookatmeNOSPAM@crazyhat.net> wrote
    >
    > If you have another handset ready, why not have another SIM ready too?


    Because it's a different phone number? Wouldn't each SIM have to
    be unique in some way identifiable to the network?

    If not, what happens when you "activate" 2 copies of the same SIM
    at the same time?

    -Quick
  7. On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:57:13 -0800, "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com>
    wrote:

    >If not, what happens when you "activate" 2 copies of the same SIM
    >at the same time?


    The network will detect it and shut down the account as it will think
    it's fraud.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    To send an email reply send to
    GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com
  8. Isaiah Beard

    Isaiah Beard Guest

    Dave wrote:

    , if my GSM phone were stolen, it would actually be
    >>MORE incovenient for me than if I lost my CDMA phone. With GSM, if my
    >>handset witht he SIM in it were stolen and I had another handset ready
    >>to reaplce it, I'd still need to visit a store or contact the carrier to
    >>ship me a new SIM (which will take a day or three). In the same
    >>scenario with CDMA, a quick call or log into the company website puts me
    >>back in business in minutes.

    >
    >
    > But in the GSM world you can get a PAYG SIM in minutes from practically
    > anywhere and wait for a couple of days for your new one to arrive.


    And in the US GSM world, I'd be paying my primary carrier for a bucket
    of minutes that would sit unused while I make do with a prepaid service.
    No thank you.






    --
    E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
  9. In article <a2obtv8325oqvfqkj013adraeefni4bagm@4ax.com>,
    Group Special Mobile <look@signature_to.reply> wrote:

    > On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:57:13 -0800, "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >If not, what happens when you "activate" 2 copies of the same SIM
    > >at the same time?

    >
    > The network will detect it and shut down the account as it will think
    > it's fraud.



    Maybe not, What happens with all the folks PORT ing from one GSM carrier
    to another?
  10. DevilsPGD

    DevilsPGD Guest

    In message <<1070909966.521436@sj-nntpcache-3>> "Quick"
    <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> did ramble:

    >> If you have another handset ready, why not have another SIM ready too?

    >
    >Because it's a different phone number? Wouldn't each SIM have to
    >be unique in some way identifiable to the network?


    The SIM isn't tied to a phone number, the SIM has a unique number
    (similar to a CDMA phone) and the SIM's ID is what the network sees.

    The phone number isn't attached to the SIM in any meaningful way, other
    then in the cell companies' database.

    If you lose or damage your SIM all you need to do is phone the cell
    company and request a SIM swap. The last time I swapped a couple the
    change was completed within 60 seconds.

    --
    HTML email should be treated in the same manner as sexual acts between
    consenting adults. Only done in private places where willing parties,
    whom agreed upon such an act BEFOREHAND, will see it.
  11. Carl.

    Carl. Guest

    "Chris McFarland" <ChrisMac@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:ChrisMac-AEC30D.10153109122003@news03.west.earthlink.net...
    > In article <a2obtv8325oqvfqkj013adraeefni4bagm@4ax.com>,
    > Group Special Mobile <look@signature_to.reply> wrote:
    >
    > > On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:57:13 -0800, "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > >If not, what happens when you "activate" 2 copies of the same SIM
    > > >at the same time?

    > >
    > > The network will detect it and shut down the account as it will think
    > > it's fraud.

    >
    >
    > Maybe not, What happens with all the folks PORT ing from one GSM carrier
    > to another?


    Without attempting technical arguments I don't know about, my guess would be
    that they get a new SIM from the new carrier and the issue does not really
    exist.


    ---
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  12. DevilsPGD

    DevilsPGD Guest

    In message <<ChrisMac-AEC30D.10153109122003@news03.west.earthlink.net>>
    Chris McFarland <ChrisMac@yahoo.com> did ramble:

    >> >If not, what happens when you "activate" 2 copies of the same SIM
    >> >at the same time?

    >>
    >> The network will detect it and shut down the account as it will think
    >> it's fraud.

    >
    >
    >Maybe not, What happens with all the folks PORT ing from one GSM carrier
    >to another?


    They'll likely be given a new SIM card. SIM cards don't store your
    phone number, they have their own ID which allows them to be uniquely
    identified.

    (Okay, technically they store the phone number too, but it isn't used
    for anything more interesting then providing the data to the handset so
    it can identify "itself")

    --
    I've given up on sigs. I just couldn't think of anything clever to say.
  13. On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 16:15:31 GMT, Chris McFarland <ChrisMac@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    >In article <a2obtv8325oqvfqkj013adraeefni4bagm@4ax.com>,
    > Group Special Mobile <look@signature_to.reply> wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:57:13 -0800, "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >If not, what happens when you "activate" 2 copies of the same SIM
    >> >at the same time?

    >>
    >> The network will detect it and shut down the account as it will think
    >> it's fraud.

    >
    >
    >Maybe not, What happens with all the folks PORT ing from one GSM carrier
    >to another?


    If it's an exact copy of a working SIM the network will detect two
    SIMs in concurrent use and shut the account down as a precaution
    against fraud.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    To send an email reply send to
    GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com
  14. On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 16:15:31 GMT, Chris McFarland <ChrisMac@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    >Maybe not, What happens with all the folks PORT ing from one GSM carrier
    >to another?


    How is this at all related to the current question?


    /Marcus

    --
    Marcus AAkesson marcus.akesson@NO_SPAM_PLEASE_home.se
    Gothenburg Callsigns: SM6XFN & SB4779
    Sweden
    >>>>>> Keep the world clean - no HTML in news or mail ! <<<<<<
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    In alt.cellular Peter Pan <Marcs1102NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > Still waiting for an answer to the question about lost, stolen, or damaged
    > phones. How long do you have to wait to get a new card and activate a new
    > phone? What happens if the card doesn't work or gets damaged (and before you
    > suggest they don't, read all the horror stories from users of them in
    > digital cameras).


    My mom just switched back to AT&T from Verizon (why, I'm not sure, but she
    did. :)

    She swapped out the entire phone. She got a new phone -- because the SIM
    was damaged.

    I'm surprised they just didn't give her a new SIM.


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