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What do you think? Cingular CAN win

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by Matapalo, Dec 2, 2003.

  1. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:32:34 -0600, N R <my_computer@is_spam.free>
    posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >Mikey wrote:
    >> yeah, perhaps take a semester of English 101 instead of spending 3 months
    >> beta testing phones.


    >You should not say that. You did capitalize the word 'yeah'; you did
    >not spell out the number 'three'; you did not include the subject 'you'
    >when referring to the previous poster; and the phrase 'instead of
    >spending' is awkward.


    >You should know by now the moral of the saying, "People who live in
    >glass houses should not throw stones."


    You said, "You did capitalize the word 'yeah'", instead of "You didn't
    ...." :)

    >Will he be seeing you in that semester of ENG 101? The average German
    >citizen speaks English better than the average American citizen.


    The "average" German citizen doesn't speak English. The average
    German citizen who speaks English doesn't speak it as well as the
    average American citizen due, imo, to the totally different
    construction of the two languages. The average German citizen who
    travels to the US probably does speak English better than the average
    American citizen, but that's due to the fact that the German citizen
    in question is one of the better educated German citizens.

    >Does that say something about the United States?


    Aside from the fact that a very large number of American citizens are
    immigrants who don't speak English very well? Yes, unfortunately it
    says that education isn't thought of too highly these days by
    native-born American kids.



    › See More: What do you think? Cingular CAN win
  2. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:58:48 -0500, "Bob the Printer"
    <bdolson@comcast.net> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >"some retard" <retard@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:slrnbspnp6.p4j.nospam@jbell.dns2go.com...


    >> Maybe you can speak English, or even American, but you sure as hell
    >> can't type it.


    >AMEN! He can't even spell 'their' for instance!


    Did you mean "they're"?
  3. Aboutdakota

    Aboutdakota Guest

    > The "average" German citizen doesn't speak English. The average
    > German citizen who speaks English doesn't speak it as well as the
    > average American citizen due, imo, to the totally different
    > construction of the two languages. The average German citizen who
    > travels to the US probably does speak English better than the average
    > American citizen, but that's due to the fact that the German citizen
    > in question is one of the better educated German citizens.


    Well, it might not be far fetched. Right now I live in an area where
    people primarily speak English. But how many people normally don't
    speak English at home? I think the census keeps track of this, but I
    didn't see it on the website. The dominant languages aside from English
    in this area are Norwegian and German (not by far a majority) and are
    usually spoken by those aged 60++

    >>Does that say something about the United States?

    >
    >
    > Aside from the fact that a very large number of American citizens are
    > immigrants who don't speak English very well? Yes, unfortunately it
    > says that education isn't thought of too highly these days by
    > native-born American kids.


    Really, English and Spanish should be taught side-by-side, at least to
    the fashion in which English and French are taught in Canada (Canada is
    legally a French speaking country). That would at least give native
    Spanish speakers a better understanding of English, and native English
    speakers a better understanding of French.

    ==AD
  4. Aboutdakota

    Aboutdakota Guest

    Al Klein wrote:
    > On 2 Dec 2003 05:10:05 -0800, matapalo54@yahoo.com (Matapalo) posted
    > in alt.cellular.verizon:
    >
    >
    >>What kind of crap is that? The contract is valid and enforceable in
    >>Florida but service is not?

    >
    >
    > No cellular company guarantees service.
    >
    >
    >>Verizon's response and treatment of a ten year customer was and is
    >>UNCONSCIONABLE! I will most likely go to small claims court

    >
    >
    > You agreed to arbitration when you signed your contract, so you can't
    > take them to court.
    >
    >
    >>I will NEVER, EVER buy a phone with a contract again.

    >
    >
    > You're going to Sprint?


    Cingular is a carrier that offers no-contract options with no additional
    monthly fees (however, if you choose to purchase a phone through
    Cingular, the price will most likely be substiantially higher).

    >>The best bet is to go to ebay and buy an UNLOCKED phone that will work
    >>on TMOBILE, AT&T and CINGULAR for the discounted retail price and then
    >>you can change carriers whenever you want.

    >
    > Your initial signup is for at least one year.


    Again, Cingular does allow no-contract options.

    >>Also, maybe one of the geniuses in the marketing department will
    >>figure out the best way to get customers in the wake of Number
    >>Portability will be to offer to PAY FOR YOUR EARLY TERMINATION fees if
    >>you switch to their carrier.

    >
    > They probably would - if you sign a 3 or 4 year contract.


    Or if you sign a longer contract *with* a *higher* ETF (not only for the
    one they paid off, but in addition to theirs).

    >>What about rate plans that are fair and easy and provide discounts
    >>based on volume just like any other normal business? This concept
    >>can't be difficult - it's an age-old marketing standard and people
    >>have come to expect it over the years.

    >
    >
    >>Here, you plug in the numbers - change them as you wish but you get
    >>the idea:
    >>
    >>< 200 minutes = $0.30/minute
    >>200 - 500 minutes = $0.27
    >>500 - 1000 minutes = $0.25
    >>1000 - 1500 minutes = $0.20
    >>
    >>>1500 minutes = $0.15

    >>

    >
    > How about these numbers?
    >
    > 300 minutes $0.116/minute
    > 400 minutes $0.10/minute
    > 800 minutes $0.075/minute
    > 1200 minutes $0.066/minute
    > 1600 minutes $0.0625/minute
    > etc?
    >
    > You mean like that?
    >
    > (That's Verizon's America's Choice plan.)


    Does he maybe mean that you only pay for minutes that you use.

    *If* he is, here is an example:

    17 minutes used at $0.30/min = $5.10 (plus taxes and fees) for the
    monthly bill

    201 minutes used at $0.27/min = $54.27 (plus taxes and fees)

    This situation would, of course, cater to the lower use people. In
    Canada, SaskTel Mobility offered a $4.99 monthly plan where you paid a
    rate for incoming minutes, a higher rate for outgoing local minutes, and
    and even higher rate for outgoing long distance minutes. Because the
    per minute rate was not cheap, it was not a good deal for normal users,
    but it was an exceptional value for people who made only occasional
    calls. And, roaming anywhere in Canada was included with this plan
    (plans in Canada usually include nationwide roaming at no extra cost).
    I do not know how much the minutes did or do cost, or if this option is
    still available.

    ==AD
  5. Al Klein <rukbat@pern.org> wrote:

    >On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:15:10 GMT, Patrick Bosley <pBosley@msn.com>
    >posted in alt.cellular.verizon:
    >
    >>In article <3aab00a7.0312020510.48f6b4ad@posting.google.com>,
    >> matapalo54@yahoo.com (Matapalo) wrote:

    >
    >>> What kind of crap is that? The contract is valid and enforceable in
    >>> Florida but service is not?

    >
    >>> So I am stuck with a $170 early termination for two lines.

    >
    >>Thats what they want you to believe. Write a certfied letter and promise
    >>to go to small claims court if they dont let you out of ETF.

    >
    >Most carriers have you agree to arbitration.


    They'll have to go to court to prove that, won't they?


    --
    Jack Hamilton
    jfh@acm.org


    If men are to wait for liberty until they become wise and good in slavery,
    they may indeed wait for ever.
    - Lord MacCaulay
  6. Jason,

    You must not travel much in NC and SC because once you get five miles from
    a major highway outside of a city your Cingular phone might as well be a
    brick. Verizon has an infinitely better network in the Carolinas and far
    fewer holes outside of the major cities, although I must admit in really
    rural areas it too has limitations. Cingular's is getting better as they
    build out the network, but it is not close to Verizon's. The best, I think,
    though, is Alltel, which I am considering switching to. Alltel, which is
    more a rural carrier, has really spent a lot in the last few years putting
    in coverage and filling in holes in rural markets in the Carolinas and it
    really shows. Everyone I know with Cingular in the greater Charlotte area
    and in Columbia, Rock Hill, etc. constantly complains also about getting
    network busy signals, having dropped calls, etc. Anyway, I am glad your
    experience has been a good one, but it does equal what I am hearing from
    others here.


    "Jason Cothran" <NOshjSPAM@charter.net> wrote in message
    news:vObAb.4231$jK.212@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
    >
    > "Chris Russell" <chris.russell@aemail4u.com> wrote in message
    > news:68f75104.0312051718.2c23d2e@posting.google.com...
    > | Amazing that on my Nation (GAIT) Plan, I have never been without
    > | service in North and South Carolina. I just came back from Charlotte
    > | and got the Cingular signal coming down the hill on I-77 about 1/2
    > | mile still in VA. It all depends on the plan that you have as to the
    > | service that you will get.
    > |
    >
    > I have also been blessed with extremely good coverage with cingular in the
    > NC/SC area, and not even on a GAIT phone. On just a GSM. In my particular
    > area, there are far fewer holes in the Cingular network than in Verizon's.
    >
    >
  7. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 00:22:53 -0800, Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org> posted
    in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >>>> So I am stuck with a $170 early termination for two lines.

    >>
    >>>Thats what they want you to believe. Write a certfied letter and promise
    >>>to go to small claims court if they dont let you out of ETF.


    >>Most carriers have you agree to arbitration.


    >They'll have to go to court to prove that, won't they?


    If you sue, they have a hanger-on present the contract to the judge,
    who then throws the case out. They then add the $50 or so to your
    bill, which you also agreed to.

    I would assume (I've never been in the situation) that they'd advise
    you of these facts by return mail. Then, if you're foolish enough to
    sue, you have no one but yourself to blame.

    Of course, they WILL report you to all the credit reporting companies,
    thereby ruining your credit rating. (It'll probably cost you about
    200 points (or more), which will kill you on any credit you apply
    for.)
  8. Al Klein

    Al Klein Guest

    On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 01:16:09 -0600, Aboutdakota
    <aboutdakota@hot-mail.com> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:

    >Really, English and Spanish should be taught side-by-side, at least to
    >the fashion in which English and French are taught in Canada (Canada is
    >legally a French speaking country). That would at least give native
    >Spanish speakers a better understanding of English, and native English
    >speakers a better understanding of French.


    You meant Spanish, of course.

    It would allow kids to post as badly in Spanish as they do now in
    English. (Don't they teach homonyms these days?)
  9. "RichardMNixon, Jr." <RichardMNixon@watergate.com> wrote in message
    news:i1MAb.88116$Vu5.5047196@twister.southeast.rr.com...
    > Jason,
    >
    > You must not travel much in NC and SC because once you get five miles

    from
    > a major highway outside of a city your Cingular phone might as well be a
    > brick. Verizon has an infinitely better network in the Carolinas and far
    > fewer holes outside of the major cities, although I must admit in really
    > rural areas it too has limitations. Cingular's is getting better as they
    > build out the network, but it is not close to Verizon's. The best, I

    think,
    > though, is Alltel, which I am considering switching to. Alltel, which is
    > more a rural carrier, has really spent a lot in the last few years putting
    > in coverage and filling in holes in rural markets in the Carolinas and it
    > really shows. Everyone I know with Cingular in the greater Charlotte area
    > and in Columbia, Rock Hill, etc. constantly complains also about getting
    > network busy signals, having dropped calls, etc. Anyway, I am glad your
    > experience has been a good one, but it does equal what I am hearing from
    > others here.
    >

    Actually I travel a good bit, and have seen the exact opposite from others I
    know on Verizon, especially down around Newberry (not far out of Columbia).
    I can attest to three areas very well.... Cingular's coverage is much better
    in rural areas in Spartanburg county, Laurens county, and Newberry. For the
    most part, Verizon is dead in the back woods areas of these counties, which
    I am sure is why Cingular is in a 3way tie for first in the south east, and
    Verizon is not one of the 3. I am sure, as reports indicate, Verizon has a
    much better national network, but thats not my concern. Here in Upstate, SC
    and Western, NC is my primary concern.
  10. What is your view on Alltel coverage there?

    Also, do you travel in Fairfield County near Lake Wateree, but away from
    I-77? If you do what is your coverage on Cingular like there? That is a
    Verizon weak spot, but I go there a lot and would like good coverage.



    "Jason Cothran" <only@reply.here> wrote in message
    news:OGPAb.19384$mG.1536@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
    >
    > "RichardMNixon, Jr." <RichardMNixon@watergate.com> wrote in message
    > news:i1MAb.88116$Vu5.5047196@twister.southeast.rr.com...
    > > Jason,
    > >
    > > You must not travel much in NC and SC because once you get five miles

    > from
    > > a major highway outside of a city your Cingular phone might as well be a
    > > brick. Verizon has an infinitely better network in the Carolinas and

    far
    > > fewer holes outside of the major cities, although I must admit in really
    > > rural areas it too has limitations. Cingular's is getting better as they
    > > build out the network, but it is not close to Verizon's. The best, I

    > think,
    > > though, is Alltel, which I am considering switching to. Alltel, which

    is
    > > more a rural carrier, has really spent a lot in the last few years

    putting
    > > in coverage and filling in holes in rural markets in the Carolinas and

    it
    > > really shows. Everyone I know with Cingular in the greater Charlotte

    area
    > > and in Columbia, Rock Hill, etc. constantly complains also about getting
    > > network busy signals, having dropped calls, etc. Anyway, I am glad your
    > > experience has been a good one, but it does equal what I am hearing from
    > > others here.
    > >

    > Actually I travel a good bit, and have seen the exact opposite from others

    I
    > know on Verizon, especially down around Newberry (not far out of

    Columbia).
    > I can attest to three areas very well.... Cingular's coverage is much

    better
    > in rural areas in Spartanburg county, Laurens county, and Newberry. For

    the
    > most part, Verizon is dead in the back woods areas of these counties,

    which
    > I am sure is why Cingular is in a 3way tie for first in the south east,

    and
    > Verizon is not one of the 3. I am sure, as reports indicate, Verizon has a
    > much better national network, but thats not my concern. Here in Upstate,

    SC
    > and Western, NC is my primary concern.
    >
    >
  11. "RichardMNixon, Jr." <RichardMNixon@watergate.com> wrote in message
    news:_yQAb.88208$Vu5.5188615@twister.southeast.rr.com...
    | What is your view on Alltel coverage there?
    |
    | Also, do you travel in Fairfield County near Lake Wateree, but away from
    | I-77? If you do what is your coverage on Cingular like there? That is a
    | Verizon weak spot, but I go there a lot and would like good coverage.
    |
    |
    |

    Sorry, but I can't speak of that particular area. The majority of my
    travelling in the upstate is done around the I26 or I85 areas. As a matter
    of fact, I don't think I have ever been on I77 for any extended period of
    time in SC, I have in NC though. You may want to toss a new topic up about
    it so anyone reading the newsgroup not in this particular thread may see it
    and respond if they know how the coverage is in that area.
  12. David S

    David S Guest

    On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:32:34 -0600, N R <my_computer@is_spam.free> chose to
    add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:

    >Mikey wrote:
    >> yeah, perhaps take a semester of English 101 instead of spending 3 months
    >> beta testing phones.

    >
    >You should not say that. You did capitalize the word 'yeah'; you did
    >not spell out the number 'three'; you did not include the subject 'you'
    >when referring to the previous poster; and the phrase 'instead of
    >spending' is awkward.


    You, otoh, meant to say that he did *not* capitalize "yeah"; using numbers
    instead of spelling them out is common Usenet practice, to reduce bandwidth
    consumption; you, 4 times, used single quotation marks where you should
    have used doubles (at least in American practice); the subject and helping
    verb ("you should") may be omitted if they are understood; and your last
    complaint is bullshit.

    --
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "Retire? Retire to what? I already fish and play golf." - Julius Boros,
    57-year-old golfer
  13. David S

    David S Guest

    On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:58:48 -0500, "Bob the Printer" <bdolson@comcast.net>
    chose to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and
    everything:

    >"some retard" <retard@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:slrnbspnp6.p4j.nospam@jbell.dns2go.com...
    >
    >> Maybe you can speak English, or even American, but you sure as hell
    >> can't type it.

    >
    >AMEN! He can't even spell 'their' for instance!


    Or "they're."

    And then there's NOT capitalizing the pronoun "I"...

    --
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "I'm tired, I'm cranky, and my wife's in Argentina." - President Jed
    Bartlet
  14. Not Me

    Not Me Guest

    | >"some retard" <retard@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    | >news:slrnbspnp6.p4j.nospam@jbell.dns2go.com...
    | >
    | >> Maybe you can speak English, or even American, but you sure as hell
    | >> can't type it.
    | >
    | >AMEN! He can't even spell 'their' for instance!
    |
    | Or "they're."
    |
    | And then there's NOT capitalizing the pronoun "I"...

    Why focus on the media and not the message? Some folk (like me) have had by
    pass surgery and have problems with typing or even pronouncing words. It
    does not make the information less useful just a bit harder to convey. If
    iit were not for spell and grammar check I could not use the internet. Even
    so mush of what I type has to be redone several times.
  15. matapalo54@yahoo.com (Matapalo) wrote in message news:<3aab00a7.0312020510.48f6b4ad@posting.google.com>...
    > I was reading a litany of complaints about Verizon. But if you ask
    > me, Verizon and AT&T both treat their customers poorly. Cingular is
    > in a good position to move in and shake up the market.
    >
    > VERIZON has excellent coverage on the West Coast of Florida in the old
    > GTE Mobilenet coverage area, however, where they acquired PrimeCo
    > networks the coverage SUCKS!


    This is true. The PrimeCo network is 1900 Mhz, and hence provides
    poorer coverage. Avoid Verizon in these areas.

    > What kind of crap is that? The contract is valid and enforceable in
    > Florida but service is not?


    Yes. South Florida has Verizon coverage, just poorer coverage than in
    othe areas. It's not Verizon's problem that you moved, except that if
    you moved to an area with NO service at all, then they'd be more
    likely to do something for you.

    >
    > So I am stuck with a $170 early termination for two lines.
    >
    > It's not like I am living in the middle of Iowa. I am in MIAMI - a
    > major U.S. city and the service simply doesn't work on my street and I
    > am 1 block off a major artery.
    >
    > Verizon's response and treatment of a ten year customer was and is
    > UNCONSCIONABLE! I will most likely go to small claims court and try
    > to get a judgment equal to the amount of the early termination fees.
    > At that time I will pay for the balance of my airtime that I owe on my
    > last bill!


    No chance. First of all, you agreed to arbitration when you signed a
    contract. Second, the contract is perfectly clear.

    > AT&T's GSM network leaves a lot to be desired too, but time should
    > ameliorate that problem.


    I hope so. In California's urban areas the two 800 Mhz carriers are
    Verizon and AT&T. When it was TDMA versus CDMA, they were about equal.
    Now AT&T is worsening their TDMA network, but the GSM network is not
    yet up to par (though better than Cingular/T-Mobile).

    > I tell you what, when my contract with AT&T expires I am going to
    > Cingular and go for ROLLOVER.


    Wait, I thought you said you had Verizon!
    Rollover is great. Cingular is good in South Florida, at least it was
    in the TDMA daya (as was AT&T).

    > I will NEVER, EVER buy a phone with a contract again. Why? Because
    > they screw you coming and going. Do the math. You save nothing by
    > getting the phone at a bargain rate.


    If you don't need an unlocked phone, don't move, and choose your
    carrier wisely, then the free or discounted phone does save you money.

    > Is it true Cingular doesn't require a contract? If so, SIGN ME UP!


    You can get Cingular or Sprint without a contract. Sprint charges
    extra. Not sure about Verizon.

    > And those ROLLOVER minutes from CINGULAR are sounding better by the
    > minute.
    >
    > On a rate plan with Verizon and AT&T you lose EVERY WAY. Didn't use
    > your minutes? You're not getting what you paid for. Used more than
    > your rate plan allowance? You're paying an EXORBITANT premium for
    > going over your plan. NO MATTER WHAT - YOU ALWAYS LOSE UNLESS YOU USE
    > EXACTLY THE NUMBER OF MINUTES YOUR PLAN ALLOWS!


    And when you don't eat all the food on your plate at a restaurant you
    lose because you pay the same amount no matter how much of the food
    you consumed.

    > When a cellular company gets smart and starts offering flat rate plans
    > for power users whose usage fluctuates, and NO CONTRACTS, expect a
    > following of customers and minimum churn.


    This would be a good plan, and would encourage more network usage and
    higher monthly fees. As it is now, most people are so terrified of the
    high per minute charges that they are very careful in their usage.

    > In my experience, cell customers will tolerate reception and coverage
    > inadequacies, however, they will not tolerate POOR customer service
    > and being treated with callous indifference!


    This is untrue. In a study of reasons for churn, customer service
    ranked last as a reason. The two top reasons were handset problems and
    coverage, and it is very likely that the handset problems were
    actually related to coverage issues as well.

    > I am a future CINGULAR customer!


    An excellent choice in South Florida. A terrible choice in California.

    > Also, maybe one of the geniuses in the marketing department will
    > figure out the best way to get customers in the wake of Number
    > Portability will be to offer to PAY FOR YOUR EARLY TERMINATION fees if
    > you switch to their carrier.


    That's a precedent that no carrier wants to set.

    > The game has changed and all the major carriers are in collusion on
    > pricing and policies. And all this is done to minimize churn.


    It's gentle collusion, as practiced by the airlines. They'll try
    raising rates or worsening terms, and if the other carriers follow
    then it sticks. If the other carriers don't follow then they retract
    it. I've seen this with Verizon out west. Or they'll offer an
    outstanding plan, such as Cingular did at one time with no roaming
    charges on their standard nationwide plan, and then they'll realize
    that this was not a good idea.

    > Sooner or later one of the major carriers is going to get weak and
    > they are either going to be acquired by one of the other majors, or
    > they will make a calculated gamble to grab market share using a
    > product mix that consists of novel rate plans and policies that will
    > engender loyalty.


    Sprint is weak, but I think the other carriers are waiting for an
    asset sale rather than paying a high price for the whole carrier.

    > Take the lid off Cingular! Sell unlocked phones! Be honest with your
    > customers and they will reward you with loyalty. You're heading in
    > the right direction with ROLLOVER and NO CONTRACTS. Go the remaining
    > mile and break away from the dirty tricks of AT&T and Verizon.


    What trick did Verizon play? You signed up for service and signed a
    contract. How does you moving obligate Verizon to take a loss?

    I had the same idea on the automatic tier pricing, but apparently
    carriers don't think that this will be more profitable or they would
    have tried it.
  16. Justin

    Justin Guest

    Steven Scharf wrote on [9 Dec 2003 07:57:29 -0800]:
    > matapalo54@yahoo.com (Matapalo) wrote in message news:<3aab00a7.0312020510.48f6b4ad@posting.google.com>...
    >> On a rate plan with Verizon and AT&T you lose EVERY WAY. Didn't use
    >> your minutes? You're not getting what you paid for. Used more than
    >> your rate plan allowance? You're paying an EXORBITANT premium for
    >> going over your plan. NO MATTER WHAT - YOU ALWAYS LOSE UNLESS YOU USE
    >> EXACTLY THE NUMBER OF MINUTES YOUR PLAN ALLOWS!

    >
    > And when you don't eat all the food on your plate at a restaurant you
    > lose because you pay the same amount no matter how much of the food
    > you consumed.


    Never heard of a doggy bag?
  17. Shizz In It

    Shizz In It Guest

    Pretty thoughtful responses with the notable exception of the
    food-restaurant analogy.

    When I eat my entire meal I am getting what I paid for. With my cellular
    plans I am, without exception, not getting what I paid for or I am paying
    exorbitant rates.

    This is like being charged $1.00 for a cup of coffee and God forbid,
    circumstances arise and you spill half of it and if you want a refill the
    cost is $5.00.




    "Steven Scharf" <scharf@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:4f153f94.0312090757.e2931d4@posting.google.com...
    > matapalo54@yahoo.com (Matapalo) wrote in message

    news:<3aab00a7.0312020510.48f6b4ad@posting.google.com>...
    > > I was reading a litany of complaints about Verizon. But if you ask
    > > me, Verizon and AT&T both treat their customers poorly. Cingular is
    > > in a good position to move in and shake up the market.
    > >
    > > VERIZON has excellent coverage on the West Coast of Florida in the old
    > > GTE Mobilenet coverage area, however, where they acquired PrimeCo
    > > networks the coverage SUCKS!

    >
    > This is true. The PrimeCo network is 1900 Mhz, and hence provides
    > poorer coverage. Avoid Verizon in these areas.
    >
    > > What kind of crap is that? The contract is valid and enforceable in
    > > Florida but service is not?

    >
    > Yes. South Florida has Verizon coverage, just poorer coverage than in
    > othe areas. It's not Verizon's problem that you moved, except that if
    > you moved to an area with NO service at all, then they'd be more
    > likely to do something for you.
    >
    > >
    > > So I am stuck with a $170 early termination for two lines.
    > >
    > > It's not like I am living in the middle of Iowa. I am in MIAMI - a
    > > major U.S. city and the service simply doesn't work on my street and I
    > > am 1 block off a major artery.
    > >
    > > Verizon's response and treatment of a ten year customer was and is
    > > UNCONSCIONABLE! I will most likely go to small claims court and try
    > > to get a judgment equal to the amount of the early termination fees.
    > > At that time I will pay for the balance of my airtime that I owe on my
    > > last bill!

    >
    > No chance. First of all, you agreed to arbitration when you signed a
    > contract. Second, the contract is perfectly clear.
    >
    > > AT&T's GSM network leaves a lot to be desired too, but time should
    > > ameliorate that problem.

    >
    > I hope so. In California's urban areas the two 800 Mhz carriers are
    > Verizon and AT&T. When it was TDMA versus CDMA, they were about equal.
    > Now AT&T is worsening their TDMA network, but the GSM network is not
    > yet up to par (though better than Cingular/T-Mobile).
    >
    > > I tell you what, when my contract with AT&T expires I am going to
    > > Cingular and go for ROLLOVER.

    >
    > Wait, I thought you said you had Verizon!
    > Rollover is great. Cingular is good in South Florida, at least it was
    > in the TDMA daya (as was AT&T).
    >
    > > I will NEVER, EVER buy a phone with a contract again. Why? Because
    > > they screw you coming and going. Do the math. You save nothing by
    > > getting the phone at a bargain rate.

    >
    > If you don't need an unlocked phone, don't move, and choose your
    > carrier wisely, then the free or discounted phone does save you money.
    >
    > > Is it true Cingular doesn't require a contract? If so, SIGN ME UP!

    >
    > You can get Cingular or Sprint without a contract. Sprint charges
    > extra. Not sure about Verizon.
    >
    > > And those ROLLOVER minutes from CINGULAR are sounding better by the
    > > minute.
    > >
    > > On a rate plan with Verizon and AT&T you lose EVERY WAY. Didn't use
    > > your minutes? You're not getting what you paid for. Used more than
    > > your rate plan allowance? You're paying an EXORBITANT premium for
    > > going over your plan. NO MATTER WHAT - YOU ALWAYS LOSE UNLESS YOU USE
    > > EXACTLY THE NUMBER OF MINUTES YOUR PLAN ALLOWS!

    >
    > And when you don't eat all the food on your plate at a restaurant you
    > lose because you pay the same amount no matter how much of the food
    > you consumed.
    >
    > > When a cellular company gets smart and starts offering flat rate plans
    > > for power users whose usage fluctuates, and NO CONTRACTS, expect a
    > > following of customers and minimum churn.

    >
    > This would be a good plan, and would encourage more network usage and
    > higher monthly fees. As it is now, most people are so terrified of the
    > high per minute charges that they are very careful in their usage.
    >
    > > In my experience, cell customers will tolerate reception and coverage
    > > inadequacies, however, they will not tolerate POOR customer service
    > > and being treated with callous indifference!

    >
    > This is untrue. In a study of reasons for churn, customer service
    > ranked last as a reason. The two top reasons were handset problems and
    > coverage, and it is very likely that the handset problems were
    > actually related to coverage issues as well.
    >
    > > I am a future CINGULAR customer!

    >
    > An excellent choice in South Florida. A terrible choice in California.
    >
    > > Also, maybe one of the geniuses in the marketing department will
    > > figure out the best way to get customers in the wake of Number
    > > Portability will be to offer to PAY FOR YOUR EARLY TERMINATION fees if
    > > you switch to their carrier.

    >
    > That's a precedent that no carrier wants to set.
    >
    > > The game has changed and all the major carriers are in collusion on
    > > pricing and policies. And all this is done to minimize churn.

    >
    > It's gentle collusion, as practiced by the airlines. They'll try
    > raising rates or worsening terms, and if the other carriers follow
    > then it sticks. If the other carriers don't follow then they retract
    > it. I've seen this with Verizon out west. Or they'll offer an
    > outstanding plan, such as Cingular did at one time with no roaming
    > charges on their standard nationwide plan, and then they'll realize
    > that this was not a good idea.
    >
    > > Sooner or later one of the major carriers is going to get weak and
    > > they are either going to be acquired by one of the other majors, or
    > > they will make a calculated gamble to grab market share using a
    > > product mix that consists of novel rate plans and policies that will
    > > engender loyalty.

    >
    > Sprint is weak, but I think the other carriers are waiting for an
    > asset sale rather than paying a high price for the whole carrier.
    >
    > > Take the lid off Cingular! Sell unlocked phones! Be honest with your
    > > customers and they will reward you with loyalty. You're heading in
    > > the right direction with ROLLOVER and NO CONTRACTS. Go the remaining
    > > mile and break away from the dirty tricks of AT&T and Verizon.

    >
    > What trick did Verizon play? You signed up for service and signed a
    > contract. How does you moving obligate Verizon to take a loss?
    >
    > I had the same idea on the automatic tier pricing, but apparently
    > carriers don't think that this will be more profitable or they would
    > have tried it.
  18. Carl.

    Carl. Guest

    "Shizz In It" <no_spam@int-spam-mierda.com> wrote in message
    news:KHmBb.6499$4t2.4381@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
    > When I eat my entire meal I am getting what I paid for. With my cellular
    > plans I am, without exception, not getting what I paid for or I am paying
    > exorbitant rates.


    Um, you could use up all of your minutes just as you eat all of your food.


    ---
    Update your PC at http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003
  19. "Shizz In It" <no_spam@int-spam-mierda.com> wrote in message
    news:KHmBb.6499$4t2.4381@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

    > Pretty thoughtful responses with the notable exception of the
    > food-restaurant analogy.
    >
    > When I eat my entire meal I am getting what I paid for.


    And when you use all your minutes you are getting everything you paid for.

    > With my cellular
    > plans I am, without exception, not getting what I paid for or I am paying
    > exorbitant rates.


    The monthly fee is a sunk cost. You pay it for service and a limited number
    of minutes. It makes no sense to go back each month and say gee, this month
    each minute cost $0.29, last month I used more of my minutes so each minute
    cost $0.28.

    > This is like being charged $1.00 for a cup of coffee and God forbid,
    > circumstances arise and you spill half of it and if you want a refill the
    > cost is $5.00.


    No, look at it this way. An 8 ounce cup of coffee is $1.50, a 12 ounce cup
    of coffee is $1.70, a 16 ounce cup of coffee is $1.90. If you buy an 8 ounce
    cup and decide that you really want 16 ounces, you can't go back and say
    "gee, can you just give me 8 more ounces for 40 cents. You don't pay 40
    cents, you pay another $1.50. You get a better deal per ounce on the bigger
    size. If you only drink 8 ounces of a 16 ounce cup then you would have been
    better off with the 8 ounce cup to begin with. Now the coffee place could
    tell you, I'll sell you additional ounces at 30 cents per ounce or you can
    buy a whole another eight ounce cup for $1.50. It'd be nice if you could
    call your carrier, tell them that you need more minutes that month, and buy
    them in blocks of 100 for $20 or so. It'd be even better if the carrier did
    this for you automatically.

    You're free with wireless to change to a higher monthly plan. With the
    wireless carrier, they're nice enough to sell you one minute at a time,
    albeit at a very high rate.

    Verizon once sent me a letter which stated "your plan is too big for you." I
    was not using even the number of minutes on the next tier down, for several
    months in a row. They suggested that I change to a cheaper plan.
  20. Shizz In It

    Shizz In It Guest

    When I went to change my plan with AT&T, they automatically STRIPPED all my
    promotional extras (unlimited nights, weekends, mobile-mobile, etc.).

    Let's face it, your reasoning is logical but this board is literally
    inundated with angry, unhappy wireless users.

    I have been a power user at each of the carriers with the exception of
    Cingular.

    As consumers we are stuck with a six company monopoly. Yes "monopoly." If
    you want to fly from Salt Lake City to Atlanta you can choose any airline
    you want as long as it is Delta. Delta is the dominant player in those hub
    cities and they offer the best routes and schedules, not necessarily the
    best service or prices.

    Same with cell carriers.

    And which cellular carrier you choose is governed by similar market specific
    constraints. For example, is your Verizon city really a PrimeCo merger
    network using the fabled 1900 Mhz band?

    Sprint PCS - cute phones, slick TV commercials with that smug, laconic,
    unctuous, middle-aged white guy in the trench coat - but their coverage
    sucks.

    Nextel - for construction workers only no matter how many TV ads they put
    out showing Wall Street execs using the "walkie talkie" feature.

    Talk about bad phone etiquette! Even as an innocent bystander I can never
    get accustomed to the CRACK, BEEP, STATIC, "Alpha Tango Bravo this is
    whiskey zulu eight-niner. Do you read me? OVER!" CRACK, BEEP, STATIC.

    CRACK, BEEP, STATIC, "Whiskey zulu eight-niner this is alpha tango bravo. We
    read you. OVER." CRACK, BEEP, STATIC.

    CRACK, BEEP, STATIC, "Alpha Tango Bravo this is whiskey zulu eight-niner.
    CHECK YOUR FIRE! ADJUST FIRE RIGHT FIVE ZERO ZERO CLICKS, FIRE FOR EFFECT!
    Over and OUT!" CRACK, BEEP, STATIC.

    Jesus, it's a telephone conversation and not a night-time forward
    reconnaissance patrol in Quang Tri calling in an artillery strike.

    Verizon - arguably the best network and coverage (CDMA) in the U.S. albeit a
    "quilt" or "tapestry" of seemingly mismatched fabrics (PrimeCo). Although
    I've had good response times on the phone with their Customer Service, it's
    like throwing darts concerning results. If you miss on the first shot, hang
    up and call again. You might get someone who doesn't suffer from some
    debilitating, congenital neurological defect.

    AT&T - Without a doubt the most abhorrent, unconscionable customer service
    in the industry. I called them one day and asked what my usage was in order
    to see if my rate plan was appropriate. Suddenly that information is no
    longer available on their CS software and they referred me to their web site
    and said, "You can only get it on the site now." Well, I tried the site for
    over a month and the data wasn't accessible and I kept getting error
    messages. The authorized and official AT&T Retail store couldn't tell me my
    usage either. Well, surprise! My usage was suddenly viewable on the web
    site the day after my billing statement.

    Their GSM network "will be" vastly superior to their once much vaunted
    "digital" (TDMA) bomb (remember that one! LOL!) once they get their GSM
    network built out. But like their much fabled cable television and
    broadband division that tanked and was sold off, I see a similar fate
    because some fucking genius in their strategic marketing division seems to
    believe you can monopolize and force customers to accept an inferior or
    inadequate product as well as dubious business practices.

    Case law:

    I watched AT&T's undergound fiber optic installers get within 100 feet of my
    house where it abruptly STOPPED and didn't get an inch closer for the next
    four years until COMCAST bought them out. Then it was a matter of months
    before my house got broadband and digital cable (of course I sold my house
    that month and moved out of state)! Why? Acquisition debt! Greedy and
    stupid AT&T wanted to own and control (monopolize) that industry too. Their
    plan? Acquisitions and debt financing! Buy up all the competition, heap
    the debt on the shareholders, run out of cash, stop building the network or
    infrastructure, stop spending, layoff thousands of workers, cut back on
    customer service, etc. STOP SPENDING because you know you are going to sell
    the business. Sell the business. You know the story.

    And AT&T's web site in an ABOMINATION. Who in God's name authorized that
    abortion? It's slow. Navigation? It's like trying to track electrical
    neural impulses in the basal ganglia using only the naked eye.

    But what, there's more! I got stuck with the Sony t68 for $249 when it
    first came out. It's been replaced three times and AT&T quietly pulled it
    from their line. The phone is infamous for its defects. AT&T won't back up
    the phone and Sony will only keep replacing it with other defective t68
    phones.

    T-Mobile - How do you say "Deutsche Telekom" in English? How do you say
    "Voice Stream Sucks?" Catherine Zeta Jones, hot as she is, isn't enough to
    carry the day. This carrier is a pig with lipstick.

    Cingular - I like their plans and "no contract" attitude. Cute logo too.

    I give up! They all suck.

    As far as I am concerned, they've been doing all the screwing with predatory
    marketing practices and non-existent customer service. Like all
    short-sighted sellers, once they have you under contract they don't see any
    need to spend any money to keep you happy.

    By the way, I'm not giving them one cent for ringtones anymore. Instead,
    I'll send them myself at http://www.itsmycellphone.com





    "Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in message
    news:vJFBb.8920$rP6.7094@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    > "Shizz In It" <no_spam@int-spam-mierda.com> wrote in message
    > news:KHmBb.6499$4t2.4381@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
    >
    > > Pretty thoughtful responses with the notable exception of the
    > > food-restaurant analogy.
    > >
    > > When I eat my entire meal I am getting what I paid for.

    >
    > And when you use all your minutes you are getting everything you paid for.
    >
    > > With my cellular
    > > plans I am, without exception, not getting what I paid for or I am

    paying
    > > exorbitant rates.

    >
    > The monthly fee is a sunk cost. You pay it for service and a limited

    number
    > of minutes. It makes no sense to go back each month and say gee, this

    month
    > each minute cost $0.29, last month I used more of my minutes so each

    minute
    > cost $0.28.
    >
    > > This is like being charged $1.00 for a cup of coffee and God forbid,
    > > circumstances arise and you spill half of it and if you want a refill

    the
    > > cost is $5.00.

    >
    > No, look at it this way. An 8 ounce cup of coffee is $1.50, a 12 ounce cup
    > of coffee is $1.70, a 16 ounce cup of coffee is $1.90. If you buy an 8

    ounce
    > cup and decide that you really want 16 ounces, you can't go back and say
    > "gee, can you just give me 8 more ounces for 40 cents. You don't pay 40
    > cents, you pay another $1.50. You get a better deal per ounce on the

    bigger
    > size. If you only drink 8 ounces of a 16 ounce cup then you would have

    been
    > better off with the 8 ounce cup to begin with. Now the coffee place could
    > tell you, I'll sell you additional ounces at 30 cents per ounce or you can
    > buy a whole another eight ounce cup for $1.50. It'd be nice if you could
    > call your carrier, tell them that you need more minutes that month, and

    buy
    > them in blocks of 100 for $20 or so. It'd be even better if the carrier

    did
    > this for you automatically.
    >
    > You're free with wireless to change to a higher monthly plan. With the
    > wireless carrier, they're nice enough to sell you one minute at a time,
    > albeit at a very high rate.
    >
    > Verizon once sent me a letter which stated "your plan is too big for you."

    I
    > was not using even the number of minutes on the next tier down, for

    several
    > months in a row. They suggested that I change to a cheaper plan.
    >
    >

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