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When to renew a PP 120-day PIN

Discussion in 'alt.cellular.verizon' started by tlvp, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. tlvp

    tlvp Guest

    I always knew a 120-day PagePlus PIN needeed to be replenished before it
    expired if any remaining value were to be retained. But I never knew if it
    expired with the *start* of the 120th day, at a random time *during* the
    120th day, or just as the 120th day was coming to an end, hence whether to
    be sure to renew *before* day #120 or *during* it.

    By "live chat" today I learned that "during" is still OK, as the following
    condensed transcript shows:

    > You are now chatting with 'A.'
    >
    > A.: Hello! Thank you for contacting Page Plus Cellular. How can I help you today?
    >
    > you: Quick question: my current "balance expires on November 25, 2012".
    > Does that mean I have only today on which to add a new 100-minute PIN?
    > Or can I do that tomorrow, as well, without losing my current $6.24 balance?
    >
    > A.: May I please have the phone number beginning with the Area Code?
    > ( ########## no spaces or characters added, please)
    >
    > you: ##########
    >
    > A.: Balance expires at midnight 11/25
    >
    > you: Please clarify ...
    > you: ... Midnight 11/25 means the midnight at the start of 11/25 or at the end of 11/25?
    >
    > A.: 11/25 10pm .. 11pm ..12 midnight
    > A.: You have the full day 11/25
    > A.: That is the last day of usage.
    >
    > you: Ah, at the END of 11/25. Thanks, A., Happy Thanksgiving,
    > and on to the next :) . Cheers, and bye.


    Perhaps a condensed version of *this* should go in the a.c.v. archives
    until some new development supersedes it. Either way, to be extra safe, I'm
    renewing today :) . Cheers, -- tlvp
    --
    Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.
     



    › See More: When to renew a PP 120-day PIN
  2. NotMe

    NotMe Guest

    "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
    news:elmop-B7253A.17350024112012@news.eternal-september.org...
    > In article <58qfinod3eyb$.1a2r4ld2og2ua.dlg@40tude.net>,
    > tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> wrote:
    >
    >> I always knew a 120-day PagePlus PIN needeed to be replenished before it
    >> expired if any remaining value were to be retained. But I never knew if
    >> it
    >> expired with the *start* of the 120th day, at a random time *during* the
    >> 120th day, or just as the 120th day was coming to an end, hence whether
    >> to
    >> be sure to renew *before* day #120 or *during* it.
    >>
    >> By "live chat" today I learned that "during" is still OK, as the
    >> following
    >> condensed transcript shows:

    >
    > man, if you're so tight that you can't do it on day 119, you shouldn't
    > have a cell phone.


    Some folk get their checks on a given day of the month. PP system walks
    forward based on a 120 day cycle not a 4 month cycle. Often as not there is
    too much month left at the end of the money.

    I have some good friends that are in that box and I'm able to lend them a
    few dimes to carry over not all are have that option.
     
  3. NotMe

    NotMe Guest

    "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
    news:elmop-D4AFAC.19303024112012@news.eternal-september.org...
    > In article <k8rk3f$dqf$1@dont-email.me>, "NotMe" <me@privacy.net>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> > man, if you're so tight that you can't do it on day 119, you shouldn't
    >> > have a cell phone.

    >>
    >> Some folk get their checks on a given day of the month.

    >
    > it's FOUR MONTHS OUT.
    >
    > It's called "budgeting". "I will need $X on day Y." FOUR MONTHS OUT.
    >
    > If you're so tight that you can't plan for it on day 119, you have no
    > business having a cell phone. You're far, far better off putting that
    > ten bucks to better use elsewhere.
    >
    > Nobody--NOBODY--who has and wants a cell phone, and who can afford one,
    > is prevented from budgeting for it. Especially when the payment due
    > date is FOUR MONTHS OUT.


    I'm glad you have that ability but the reality is not all have that luxury.
    Many especially my hospice patients get hammered by medical expenses. (Look
    up donut hole for a simple example)

    BTW four months out is often one or two days past the end of the billing
    cycle and is often one or two days before retirement checks are paid.

    Last have you checked the cost of land line service lately? Typically
    prepaid cell phone are much much cheaper.
     
  4. SMS

    SMS Guest

    On 11/24/2012 10:28 AM, tlvp wrote:
    > I always knew a 120-day PagePlus PIN needeed to be replenished before it
    > expired if any remaining value were to be retained. But I never knew if it
    > expired with the *start* of the 120th day, at a random time *during* the
    > 120th day, or just as the 120th day was coming to an end, hence whether to
    > be sure to renew *before* day #120 or *during* it.


    I would do 119 days. I've been burned by PagePlus in renewals in the past.
     
  5. On 11/24/12 5:35 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    > In article <58qfinod3eyb$.1a2r4ld2og2ua.dlg@40tude.net>,
    > tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> wrote:
    >
    >> I always knew a 120-day PagePlus PIN needeed to be replenished before it
    >> expired if any remaining value were to be retained. But I never knew if it
    >> expired with the *start* of the 120th day, at a random time *during* the
    >> 120th day, or just as the 120th day was coming to an end, hence whether to
    >> be sure to renew *before* day #120 or *during* it.
    >>
    >> By "live chat" today I learned that "during" is still OK, as the following
    >> condensed transcript shows:

    >
    > man, if you're so tight that you can't do it on day 119, you shouldn't
    > have a cell phone.
    >


    What an asinine post. You are endorsing not getting what you've paid for
    or paying more than you need to.

    When you buy a loaf of bread, do you open the package and give a slice
    back to the baker, when you get your electric bill each month, do you
    pay an extra two dollars, when you fill up your gas tank, do you
    dispense the first half gallon onto the ground, etc., etc........


    --
    Your taxes are high because you support lots of folks who can't be
    bothered with working. They ever say thanks-- or can I mow your lawn? Nope.
    -- @KelsowFarlander
     
  6. In article <k8thob$cms$1@news.albasani.net>,
    "Douglas C. Neidermeyer" <sgt@arms.omega.faber.edu> wrote:

    > > man, if you're so tight that you can't do it on day 119, you shouldn't
    > > have a cell phone.
    > >

    >
    > What an asinine post. You are endorsing not getting what you've paid for
    > or paying more than you need to.


    if there's even a question about what "midnight" means, pay it on day
    119 and eliminate the consequences of guessing wrong what "midnight"
    means.

    If one day out of 120 is going to break you, you have no business having
    a cell phone as part of your budget.

    It looks like y'all *want* the answer to be "you have the entire
    expiration day up until 11:59pm of that day", so you've stopped shopping
    for the answer at the first person who gave you the answer you're
    looking for. What will you do if you find out the rep who told you
    that, told you wrong?

    Here's an idea: get a phone, put ten bucks on it, and try it. See what
    happens.

    Oh, you don't want to do that on your own? You'd rather tell others
    that "I heard it from someone who may or may not have had any idea what
    he's talking about that when they say midnight they mean midnight after
    11:59pm of the date specified" and have that OTHER someone try it out
    for you--and risk losing HIS money? And risk losing HIS number that
    he's had for years?


    > When you buy a loaf of bread, do you open the package and give a slice
    > back to the baker, when you get your electric bill each month, do you
    > pay an extra two dollars, when you fill up your gas tank, do you
    > dispense the first half gallon onto the ground, etc., etc........


    Nope. But then, when you buy a loaf of bread does the baker come back
    to you on the package's expiration date and remove every bit of food
    from your kitchen because that's the condition you agreed upon when he
    sold you the loaf?

    Does the gas station decide that your tank expires on their schedule (to
    maximize their profits) and you agree to that and, when you don't buy
    gas on their schedule, does the gas station come repossess your car?

    You keep setting up the inanities, I'll keep knocking them down.

    "Midnight" is vague. ENTIRELY too vague. Any decent business would
    avoid that term like the plague, and use terms like "11:59pm" or
    "12:01am" when specifying a date and expiration (or starting) time. But
    PPlus uses "midnight"? That's insane. And you choose to interpret that
    in some way that benefits you and not them? That's even MORE insane.

    Let's assume for now that they mean the midnight that comes after
    11:59pm on the date they say your balance expires. That's nice. So you
    go along and it all works for awhile, and one day you go to use your
    phone on the expiration date and it doesn't work. ????

    You call and discover that "no, when we said midnight, we meant the
    midnight immediately prior to 12:01am of the expiration date". Now
    what? Will you sit there with no balance in your account and challenge
    this new rep? Will you insist that "but the person I spoke to 6 months
    ago told me different, and no I don't have anything in writing and no I
    don't have that person's name, what, do you expect me to document
    everything that happens in my life?"?

    Maybe this new person is wrong--but your balance is gone. Or maybe
    PPlus changed their terms, and you missed that--and now your balance is
    gone.

    All because you're too tight for whatever reason to insure yourself
    against such corporate ignorance or greed (take your pick).

    And what is the cost of that insurance? One day out of 120 is
    0.008333333. Now you can calculate that cost of insurance, and evaluate
    it against losing your balance and/or number.

    You pay ten bucks every 120 day period to keep the phone active, but you
    actually renew on day 119? That makes your cost not ten dollars, but
    $10.09 (rounding up). And that's only if you pay retail.

    For the $50 (again, at retail) standard plan, that day's insurance costs
    you $0.42. 42 whole cents.

    Let's do this with the $80 card, which has a 365 (364) day expiration.
    That one day is a matter of 0.0027397. If you pay $80 every 364 days to
    cover yourself against losing your number/balance, that's a $0.22 cost
    for that day.

    22 cents per year to insure your balance and the phone number you've had
    for years. Or 9 cents times 3, making it 27 cents per year for those
    doing the $10 cards. Or 42 cents times 3 ($50 plan), making it $1.26
    per year. (So when you calculate your plan costs, you have to calculate
    EVERYTHING about it to get a true cost--not just the refill fee.)

    To summarize: the cost to standard plan users of insuring that PPlus
    doesn't dump your balance and/or your phone number is anywhere from 22
    cents ($80 card) to $1.26 ($50 card) per year.*

    If that boinks your entire budget, if you CANNOT afford that, you have
    NO business with a cell phone. PERIOD. You are simply too poor and/or
    unable to make good choices in your day to day life.

    I'd be fascinated to see what that money ended up buying over the last
    four months.

    I maintain: any excuses anyone comes up with about how they just can't
    afford to re-up their PPlus standard plan a day early are just that:
    excuses. Excuses for bad choices that these people have made over the
    last four months, bad choices that left them ONE DAY short of being able
    to cover ten bucks.

    And let's not forget: for all of those truly too poor to be able to
    afford ten bucks every 119 days, the federal government has a process in
    place to give you a phone and voice service, all for FREE. Why you
    wouldn't take advantage of that, I have no idea.


    *so let's go back and do the calculation: three $50 cards for a year,
    with your "pay it a day early just in case" insurance, is $151.26 and
    gives you 3000 minutes. Two $80 cards is $160.22 and gives you 4000
    minutes. That comes out to 5.042 cents and 4.0055 cents per minute,
    respectively. That's a PENNY PER MINUTE extra penalty as a consequence
    of "doing it cheaper" with the $50 refills. But then, corporations are
    built and thrive on the backs of people who choose not to do math
    because they heard that "it's too hard" and make the choice never to
    learn it. YMMV, because of course the truly calculating consumer
    doesn't pay retail for these refill cards--he pays less than retail.
     
  7. tycho

    tycho Guest

    "NotMe" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:k8rk3f$dqf$1@dont-email.me...
    >
    > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
    > news:elmop-B7253A.17350024112012@news.eternal-september.org...
    >> In article <58qfinod3eyb$.1a2r4ld2og2ua.dlg@40tude.net>,
    >> tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I always knew a 120-day PagePlus PIN needeed to be replenished before it
    >>> expired if any remaining value were to be retained. But I never knew if
    >>> it
    >>> expired with the *start* of the 120th day, at a random time *during* the
    >>> 120th day, or just as the 120th day was coming to an end, hence whether
    >>> to
    >>> be sure to renew *before* day #120 or *during* it.
    >>>
    >>> By "live chat" today I learned that "during" is still OK, as the
    >>> following
    >>> condensed transcript shows:

    >>
    >> man, if you're so tight that you can't do it on day 119, you shouldn't
    >> have a cell phone.

    >
    > Some folk get their checks on a given day of the month. PP system walks
    > forward based on a 120 day cycle not a 4 month cycle. Often as not there
    > is too much month left at the end of the money.
    >
    > I have some good friends that are in that box and I'm able to lend them a
    > few dimes to carry over not all are have that option.


    I've had posts from "Elmo P. Shagnasty" auto-deleted and routed to my
    personal bit-bucket for a long time now, IIRC based on his intemperate
    comments to Janet Wilder a while back. Refreshingly, I don't have to see
    his blather unless it is quoted by others. But I'm glad to see
    confirmation -- based on his spewings in this thread as well as responses to
    "hachiroku" a week or two ago -- that my decision was the correct one...
     
  8. NotMe

    NotMe Guest

    "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
    news:elmop-C97287.07462625112012@news.eternal-september.org...
    > In article <k8rtig$1j6$1@dont-email.me>, "NotMe" <me@privacy.net>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> > It's called "budgeting". "I will need $X on day Y." FOUR MONTHS OUT.
    >> >
    >> > If you're so tight that you can't plan for it on day 119, you have no
    >> > business having a cell phone. You're far, far better off putting that
    >> > ten bucks to better use elsewhere.
    >> >
    >> > Nobody--NOBODY--who has and wants a cell phone, and who can afford one,
    >> > is prevented from budgeting for it. Especially when the payment due
    >> > date is FOUR MONTHS OUT.

    >>
    >> I'm glad you have that ability but the reality is not all have that
    >> luxury.

    >
    > Then those who don't have that luxury have NO BUSINESS having a cell
    > phone.


    I work with the foster program and family court. For many a phone is not a
    luxury* and the reality is a prepaid phone is typically the best and often
    the only option.

    For far too many the hard reality is that budget choices are food OR meds OR
    transportation OR phone bill. It's a balancing act that often involves
    hours and minutes, not days.

    "If 119 days breaks your budget where the 120th day rescues it, you're
    fucking up big time and need to re-do things."

    BINGO you finally see the reality of some folks' lives. Again a re-do would
    be wonderful but often as not something that is not in the cards.

    "Which means nobody cares if you have a cell phone or not." ... or food or
    meds or many other critical human needs. Some maintain that that world view
    (nobody cares) was a major element in the recent elections.

    * no phone -- no work especially if you work part time, piece work, day
    labor, multiple jobs or any number of on calls jobs. Many physician offices
    call to verify appointments. Don't answer the phone to confirm and you lose
    your appointment. Employers confirm hiring with a phone call. Don't have a
    phone to received the news and they move to the next in line.
     
  9. NotMe

    NotMe Guest

    "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
    news:elmop-AA4899.07471525112012@news.eternal-september.org...
    > In article <k8rtig$1j6$1@dont-email.me>, "NotMe" <me@privacy.net>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Last have you checked the cost of land line service lately? Typically
    >> prepaid cell phone are much much cheaper.

    >
    > One word for this theoretical situation you're postulating: obamaphone.


    Excellent idea which had it's origins during the Reagan Admin but not
    everyone qualifies.

    I recommend the process to those that do qualify but again the reality is
    that not all qualify. Even with the help of the vendors it's not a drop
    kick.
     
  10. NotMe

    NotMe Guest

    "Douglas C. Neidermeyer" <sgt@arms.omega.faber.edu> wrote in message
    news:k8thob$cms$1@news.albasani.net...
    > On 11/24/12 5:35 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    >> In article <58qfinod3eyb$.1a2r4ld2og2ua.dlg@40tude.net>,
    >> tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I always knew a 120-day PagePlus PIN needeed to be replenished before it
    >>> expired if any remaining value were to be retained. But I never knew if
    >>> it
    >>> expired with the *start* of the 120th day, at a random time *during* the
    >>> 120th day, or just as the 120th day was coming to an end, hence whether
    >>> to
    >>> be sure to renew *before* day #120 or *during* it.
    >>>
    >>> By "live chat" today I learned that "during" is still OK, as the
    >>> following
    >>> condensed transcript shows:

    >>
    >> man, if you're so tight that you can't do it on day 119, you shouldn't
    >> have a cell phone.
    >>

    >
    > What an asinine post. You are endorsing not getting what you've paid for
    > or paying more than you need to.
    >
    > When you buy a loaf of bread, do you open the package and give a slice
    > back to the baker, when you get your electric bill each month, do you pay
    > an extra two dollars, when you fill up your gas tank, do you dispense the
    > first half gallon onto the ground, etc., etc........
    >


    PP's business model looks not unlike the one used by credit card companies
    where the pay by date was structured so that card user was tripped into
    making the payment late which resulted in late fees and other charges.

    It's apparently enough of a concern or problem that we're having this
    discussion.
     
  11. On 11/25/12 12:43 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    > In article <k8thob$cms$1@news.albasani.net>,
    > "Douglas C. Neidermeyer" <sgt@arms.omega.faber.edu> wrote:
    >
    >>> man, if you're so tight that you can't do it on day 119, you shouldn't
    >>> have a cell phone.
    >>>

    >>
    >> What an asinine post. You are endorsing not getting what you've paid for
    >> or paying more than you need to.

    >
    > if there's even a question about what "midnight" means, pay it on day
    > 119 and eliminate the consequences of guessing wrong what "midnight"
    > means.
    >
    > If one day out of 120 is going to break you, you have no business having
    > a cell phone as part of your budget.
    >
    > It looks like y'all *want* the answer to be "you have the entire
    > expiration day up until 11:59pm of that day", so you've stopped shopping
    > for the answer at the first person who gave you the answer you're
    > looking for. What will you do if you find out the rep who told you
    > that, told you wrong?
    >
    > Here's an idea: get a phone, put ten bucks on it, and try it. See what
    > happens.
    >
    > Oh, you don't want to do that on your own? You'd rather tell others
    > that "I heard it from someone who may or may not have had any idea what
    > he's talking about that when they say midnight they mean midnight after
    > 11:59pm of the date specified" and have that OTHER someone try it out
    > for you--and risk losing HIS money? And risk losing HIS number that
    > he's had for years?
    >
    >
    >> When you buy a loaf of bread, do you open the package and give a slice
    >> back to the baker, when you get your electric bill each month, do you
    >> pay an extra two dollars, when you fill up your gas tank, do you
    >> dispense the first half gallon onto the ground, etc., etc........

    >
    > Nope. But then, when you buy a loaf of bread does the baker come back
    > to you on the package's expiration date and remove every bit of food
    > from your kitchen because that's the condition you agreed upon when he
    > sold you the loaf?
    >
    > Does the gas station decide that your tank expires on their schedule (to
    > maximize their profits) and you agree to that and, when you don't buy
    > gas on their schedule, does the gas station come repossess your car?
    >
    > You keep setting up the inanities, I'll keep knocking them down.
    >
    > "Midnight" is vague. ENTIRELY too vague. Any decent business would
    > avoid that term like the plague, and use terms like "11:59pm" or
    > "12:01am" when specifying a date and expiration (or starting) time. But
    > PPlus uses "midnight"? That's insane. And you choose to interpret that
    > in some way that benefits you and not them? That's even MORE insane.
    >
    > Let's assume for now that they mean the midnight that comes after
    > 11:59pm on the date they say your balance expires. That's nice. So you
    > go along and it all works for awhile, and one day you go to use your
    > phone on the expiration date and it doesn't work. ????
    >
    > You call and discover that "no, when we said midnight, we meant the
    > midnight immediately prior to 12:01am of the expiration date". Now
    > what? Will you sit there with no balance in your account and challenge
    > this new rep? Will you insist that "but the person I spoke to 6 months
    > ago told me different, and no I don't have anything in writing and no I
    > don't have that person's name, what, do you expect me to document
    > everything that happens in my life?"?
    >
    > Maybe this new person is wrong--but your balance is gone. Or maybe
    > PPlus changed their terms, and you missed that--and now your balance is
    > gone.
    >
    > All because you're too tight for whatever reason to insure yourself
    > against such corporate ignorance or greed (take your pick).
    >
    > And what is the cost of that insurance? One day out of 120 is
    > 0.008333333. Now you can calculate that cost of insurance, and evaluate
    > it against losing your balance and/or number.
    >
    > You pay ten bucks every 120 day period to keep the phone active, but you
    > actually renew on day 119? That makes your cost not ten dollars, but
    > $10.09 (rounding up). And that's only if you pay retail.
    >
    > For the $50 (again, at retail) standard plan, that day's insurance costs
    > you $0.42. 42 whole cents.
    >
    > Let's do this with the $80 card, which has a 365 (364) day expiration.
    > That one day is a matter of 0.0027397. If you pay $80 every 364 days to
    > cover yourself against losing your number/balance, that's a $0.22 cost
    > for that day.
    >
    > 22 cents per year to insure your balance and the phone number you've had
    > for years. Or 9 cents times 3, making it 27 cents per year for those
    > doing the $10 cards. Or 42 cents times 3 ($50 plan), making it $1.26
    > per year. (So when you calculate your plan costs, you have to calculate
    > EVERYTHING about it to get a true cost--not just the refill fee.)
    >
    > To summarize: the cost to standard plan users of insuring that PPlus
    > doesn't dump your balance and/or your phone number is anywhere from 22
    > cents ($80 card) to $1.26 ($50 card) per year.*
    >
    > If that boinks your entire budget, if you CANNOT afford that, you have
    > NO business with a cell phone. PERIOD. You are simply too poor and/or
    > unable to make good choices in your day to day life.
    >
    > I'd be fascinated to see what that money ended up buying over the last
    > four months.
    >
    > I maintain: any excuses anyone comes up with about how they just can't
    > afford to re-up their PPlus standard plan a day early are just that:
    > excuses. Excuses for bad choices that these people have made over the
    > last four months, bad choices that left them ONE DAY short of being able
    > to cover ten bucks.
    >
    > And let's not forget: for all of those truly too poor to be able to
    > afford ten bucks every 119 days, the federal government has a process in
    > place to give you a phone and voice service, all for FREE. Why you
    > wouldn't take advantage of that, I have no idea.
    >
    >
    > *so let's go back and do the calculation: three $50 cards for a year,
    > with your "pay it a day early just in case" insurance, is $151.26 and
    > gives you 3000 minutes. Two $80 cards is $160.22 and gives you 4000
    > minutes. That comes out to 5.042 cents and 4.0055 cents per minute,
    > respectively. That's a PENNY PER MINUTE extra penalty as a consequence
    > of "doing it cheaper" with the $50 refills. But then, corporations are
    > built and thrive on the backs of people who choose not to do math
    > because they heard that "it's too hard" and make the choice never to
    > learn it. YMMV, because of course the truly calculating consumer
    > doesn't pay retail for these refill cards--he pays less than retail.
    >


    You really missed my point.

    I pay at day 119 myself-- but not because I'm so flush I can afford to
    throw away the day I've paid for-- or am so stupid I voluntarily do so--
    but because PP's billing/payment system is shaggy at best. Losing the
    day is part of the price of doing business with PP lest their payment
    system is down, they screw up your new PIN, or some other administrative
    problem. Still, overall it's damn good cell service at a very attractive
    price. That's why I continue to do business with them.

    --
    An ironclad political truth: Each dollar the government gives to X is a
    dollar the government must first take from Y.
    --@Jeff_Jacoby
     
  12. NotMe

    NotMe Guest

    "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
    news:elmop-4D19E5.16495425112012@news.eternal-september.org...
    > In article <k8toa9$uk9$1@dont-email.me>, "NotMe" <me@privacy.net>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> PP's business model looks not unlike the one used by credit card
    >> companies
    >> where the pay by date was structured so that card user was tripped into
    >> making the payment late which resulted in late fees and other charges.
    >>
    >> It's apparently enough of a concern or problem that we're having this
    >> discussion.

    >
    > Assume that things cost more than the face value.
    >
    > You can't go wrong.
    >
    > Now you have to figure out exactly *what* that cost is.
    >
    > In the case of PP, that cost is....a few cents. Nothing more.
    >
    > And yet people who claim not to have those few cents to spare, have cell
    > phones. <scratches head> I dunno.


    You have never ever in your entire life come up dime much less a dollar
    short?
     
  13. Justin

    Justin Guest

    Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote on [Sun, 25 Nov 2012 16:52:22 -0500]:
    > In article <k8tnp0$r4s$1@dont-email.me>, "NotMe" <me@privacy.net>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> I work with the foster program and family court. For many a phone is not a
    >> luxury* and the reality is a prepaid phone is typically the best and often
    >> the only option.

    >
    > Again, if those people for whom "the phone is not a luxury" can't budget
    > better (for whatever reason) for it over a 120 day period, then they're
    > making choices that belie the claim that "it's not a luxury".


    Yes, because we all know that cell phone minutes are more important
    than heat, food and healthcare.
     
  14. Justin

    Justin Guest

    Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote on [Sun, 25 Nov 2012 16:54:26 -0500]:
    > In article <k8tnp0$r4s$1@dont-email.me>, "NotMe" <me@privacy.net>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> "If 119 days breaks your budget where the 120th day rescues it, you're
    >> fucking up big time and need to re-do things."
    >>
    >> BINGO you finally see the reality of some folks' lives. Again a re-do would
    >> be wonderful but often as not something that is not in the cards.

    >
    > This "phone that is not a luxury" somehow gets lost in the shuffle over
    > 119 days, to the point that they can't make the payment at day 119?
    >
    > Why/how did this "not a luxury, extremely important part of my life,
    > necessity" get lost in the budget?
    >
    > Do these people do the very same thing with the rent man? The electric
    > company? Oh, let me guess--some of them do it with the CABLE COMPANY.
    >
    > Make choices. Rank them. Figure out what you can pay for and what you
    > can't. If it's not a luxury, then it's a necessity--and you give up
    > other things to pay for necessities.


    Until all the necessities cost more than the incoming money...
     
  15. NotMe

    NotMe Guest

    "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
    news:elmop-78579D.16542625112012@news.eternal-september.org...
    > In article <k8tnp0$r4s$1@dont-email.me>, "NotMe" <me@privacy.net>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> "If 119 days breaks your budget where the 120th day rescues it, you're
    >> fucking up big time and need to re-do things."
    >>
    >> BINGO you finally see the reality of some folks' lives. Again a re-do
    >> would
    >> be wonderful but often as not something that is not in the cards.

    >
    > This "phone that is not a luxury" somehow gets lost in the shuffle over
    > 119 days, to the point that they can't make the payment at day 119?
    >
    > Why/how did this "not a luxury, extremely important part of my life,
    > necessity" get lost in the budget?


    The point you miss is that many live check to check. Good example you've
    seen folk pay $0.25 for a single cigarette when a pack is (was) much
    cheaper. It's not a budget function but a time availability of money.

    On another level you and I are hiking in the deep woods. I have TP, yours
    was lost to whatever disaster you may have suffered. (say you foolishly
    went swimming in the cold creek without staching your pack in a dry safe
    place -- it's called sliping and falling in the creek)

    How much are you willing to pay for a few sheets? What if I ask for more
    that you have in cash and your credit is not good with me?

    >
    > Do these people do the very same thing with the rent man? The electric
    > company? Oh, let me guess--some of them do it with the CABLE COMPANY.


    Homeless folk don't have any of those. Others, typically families, do.
    Trust me, despite what you may believe, cable is not often on the list when
    it comes to taking care of their families. And yes I know how that game is
    played as I work hands on with the foster program and family court. You
    would be surprised the number of kids who are voluntarily put into foster
    care as the parents have no other resources.

    >
    > Make choices. Rank them. Figure out what you can pay for and what you
    > can't. If it's not a luxury, then it's a necessity--and you give up
    > other things to pay for necessities.


    Meds, food, utilities (in either very cold or very hot weather). Which one
    are you willing to give up if the lack of any one will result in your being
    injured, sick(er) or even dead?

    To some that's another version of Sophie's Choice.
     
  16. SMS

    SMS Guest

    On 11/25/2012 10:54 AM, Douglas C. Neidermeyer wrote:

    > I pay at day 119 myself-- but not because I'm so flush I can afford to
    > throw away the day I've paid for-- or am so stupid I voluntarily do so--
    > but because PP's billing/payment system is shaggy at best. Losing the
    > day is part of the price of doing business with PP lest their payment
    > system is down, they screw up your new PIN, or some other administrative
    > problem. Still, overall it's damn good cell service at a very attractive
    > price. That's why I continue to do business with them.


    Well it's not like you're losing any money by renewing at day 119 versus
    day 120 unless you're never using more than $2/month worth of services.

    If anyone is really worrying about an extra 0.83% of cost over a period
    of 4 months (8.3ยข on a $10 refill) then things are pretty bad.
     
  17. Re: Re: When to renew a PP 120-day PIN

    On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:43:29 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
    <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

    >In article <k8thob$cms$1@news.albasani.net>,
    > "Douglas C. Neidermeyer" <sgt@arms.omega.faber.edu> wrote:
    >
    >> > man, if you're so tight that you can't do it on day 119, you shouldn't
    >> > have a cell phone.
    >> >

    >>
    >> What an asinine post. You are endorsing not getting what you've paid for
    >> or paying more than you need to.

    >
    >if there's even a question about what "midnight" means, pay it on day
    >119 and eliminate the consequences of guessing wrong what "midnight"
    >means.
    >
    >If one day out of 120 is going to break you, you have no business having
    >a cell phone as part of your budget.


    I pay mine on day 120 and have never had a problem because not only do
    I know how to budget my money, I also know how to budget my TIME. It's
    not about breaking me, it's about leaving time left on the table. Or
    don't you have principles along these lines in similar areas?
     
  18. On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:28:22 -0500, tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net>
    wrote:

    >I always knew a 120-day PagePlus PIN needeed to be replenished before it
    >expired if any remaining value were to be retained. But I never knew if it
    >expired with the *start* of the 120th day, at a random time *during* the
    >120th day, or just as the 120th day was coming to an end, hence whether to
    >be sure to renew *before* day #120 or *during* it.
    >
    >By "live chat" today I learned that "during" is still OK, as the following
    >condensed transcript shows:
    >
    >> You are now chatting with 'A.'
    >>
    >> A.: Hello! Thank you for contacting Page Plus Cellular. How can I help you today?
    >>
    >> you: Quick question: my current "balance expires on November 25, 2012".
    >> Does that mean I have only today on which to add a new 100-minute PIN?
    >> Or can I do that tomorrow, as well, without losing my current $6.24 balance?
    >>
    >> A.: May I please have the phone number beginning with the Area Code?
    >> ( ########## no spaces or characters added, please)
    >>
    >> you: ##########
    >>
    >> A.: Balance expires at midnight 11/25
    >>
    >> you: Please clarify ...
    >> you: ... Midnight 11/25 means the midnight at the start of 11/25 or at the end of 11/25?
    >>
    >> A.: 11/25 10pm .. 11pm ..12 midnight
    >> A.: You have the full day 11/25
    >> A.: That is the last day of usage.
    >>
    >> you: Ah, at the END of 11/25. Thanks, A., Happy Thanksgiving,
    >> and on to the next :) . Cheers, and bye.

    >
    >Perhaps a condensed version of *this* should go in the a.c.v. archives
    >until some new development supersedes it. Either way, to be extra safe, I'm
    >renewing today :) . Cheers, -- tlvp


    You're assuming the person knew what she was talking about. My
    experience is that PP has too many people who don't.
     
  19. tlvp

    tlvp Guest

    On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 17:35:00 -0500, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

    > man, if you're so tight that you can't do it on day 119, you shouldn't
    > have a cell phone.


    Had you read any further, you'd have seen I *did* do it on day 119 :) .

    Cheers, -- tlvp
    --
    Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.
     
  20. tlvp

    tlvp Guest

    On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 22:02:27 -0800, nobody@nada.com wrote:

    > You're assuming the person knew what she was talking about.


    If I were assuming any such thing, I wouldn't have bothered to post here,
    where confirmation or refutation would be forthcoming, would I, now :) ?

    Cheers, -- tlvp
    --
    Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.
     

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